Ie 6 versus Firefox

[Philip Hristov]

Leythos,

My IE security settings are in default mode. I do not know what MS is
suggesting, I do not have antivirus program too. Actually do you know
something? When I was using FF, I browsed one wallpapers site which I
know that wants to install spywares. In IE the site tries to install an
ActiveX control (signed!!!! too bad for the isssuer of that
certificate), on FF it wanted to install a Java applet (signed again),
I clicked Yes and my whole pc was flooded with spywares...See,
sometimes it is not up to the browsers.

Best,

Philip.

 

[Leythos]

Leythos,

My IE security settings are in default mode. I do not know what MS is
suggesting, I do not have antivirus program too. Actually do you know
something? When I was using FF, I browsed one wallpapers site which I
know that wants to install spywares. In IE the site tries to install an
ActiveX control (signed!!!! too bad for the isssuer of that
certificate), on FF it wanted to install a Java applet (signed again), I
clicked Yes and my whole pc was flooded with spywares...See, sometimes
it is not up to the browsers.

So, in both cases you could have rejected it, and decided to allow it in
FireFox? Why the heck would you allow a installation from an unknown site
in the first place.

As for you AV choice - you're living on borrowed time. While I've never
been compromised, it doesn't make any sense to not have AV protection,
especially since you are not running a secured browser.

 

[Leythos]

Please do not defend PHP and PHP "programmers"...That someone can access
a DB server get and insert data to it, does not make him a programmer.
And what more you can do with PHP? Actually, I can't stand the PHP
"programmers", they claim that knowing PHP is the best thing in the
world. So what I am? I know to program the DOS, the BIOS (in DOS mode),
I can develop desktop applications, invent new algorithms. What I am?
The other day one collegue from the university (which pretended to be a
PHP "programmer") asked is SQL Server (which he thought it is a term for
a Database Server!) is MySQL server. And when I told him this is MS's
Database Server, he told me that it is a garbage! See, how good are the
PHP "programmers". Not to mention that he only know to get and insert
data into database, he did not know what is a Stored Procedure and Data
View...

You didn't read my post very well if you thought I was defending any type
of programmer. I've worked in the MS SQL, Oracle, Access (yea, I should
not have mentioned that one), MySQL, VB DOS, VB 3~6, VB.Net, ASP, ASP.Net,
ColdFusion, PHP, HTML/DHTML, XML, C, C++, Visual C++, machine language,
etc... worlds. I've also programmed in languages you've never even seen.

Being a DBA doesn't mean the person can write stored procedures, doesn't
mean they know anything about protection performance tuning, nothing about
server maintenance...

Being a ASP/.Net programmer doesn't mean the person knows anything about
standards, databases, local OS issues, performance issues, etc... The same
is true with any language.

I interview about 50 people every year now, get hundreds of resumes every
month, manage projects with all levels of programmers, designers,
architects, database types, etc.... What I've learned over these 25+ years
of doing this (yea, I'm older than 25) is that the good ones (about 15%)
are few and far between, that the average ones (about 50%) make up a big
majority, and the rest, the ones you don't want, make up about 35% of the
pool. I've worked with guys that have Ph.D's, Masters, no formal
education, etc... they're all the same, some are good, some are bad, most
are just average, the schooling doesn't seem to make any difference.

What separates a good programmer from a average/bad programmer is that
innate talent that they possess before the even learn their first
language, that ability to envision the solution before the start coding
it, to be able to determine the solution path without even having a full
understanding of the language..... Those are the ones I hire, but it comes
at a price.

So, before you discount a programmer (or anyone) because they like a
particular language, learn something about the person or about yourself
before you make another mistake.

 

[Philip Hristov]

Why the heck the other users allow an installation from an unknown
sites? They could reject it? I did it to see what will happen and what
permissions JAVA gives to the applets.

Oh, yes! It does make sense! I cannot stand the AV to check all my .bat
files which I am running for viruses. I cannot stand it to update
itself with the latest definitions every 30 minutes. I hate the
realtime protection! It slows my computer. Actually I got an antivirus
- the free DOS version of F-prot, but it is not installed right now on
my computer. And I do not get infected with my "non secured" browser, I
am not suggesting to not install an antivirus software. But for me it
causes more troubles than without such software.

I did not buy my computer with the mind that someone will hack it or
whatever. I bought it for work.

Regards,

Philip.

 

[Leythos]

Why the heck the other users allow an installation from an unknown
sites? They could reject it? I did it to see what will happen and what
permissions JAVA gives to the applets.

But you implied that FireFox was less secure because it you permitted it
to run the applet.

Oh, yes! It does make sense! I cannot stand the AV to check all my .bat
files which I am running for viruses. I cannot stand it to update itself

All AV product permit the ability to exclude file, extensions, and folders.

with the latest definitions every 30 minutes. I hate the realtime
protection!

I only see updates every 8 hours because I set the software to check every
8 hours, it's normal schedule is once a week. If you set it to run every
30 minutes, well, that is a little over-kill.

Real-Time scanning, memory and drive, is the proper way to protect a
computer (any OS) against known threats, including viruses.

It slows my computer. Actually I got an antivirus - the free
DOS version of F-prot, but it is not installed right now on my computer.

Most quality AV products don't consume much in the way of resources, the
suites do, but I run several AV products (different systems) from
different vendors and don't see any significant performance hit when
properly configured.

And I do not get infected with my "non secured" browser, I am not
suggesting to not install an antivirus software. But for me it causes
more troubles than without such software.

Interesting - if you don't have anything installed, and you don't secure
your browser, unless you're not connected to the net, or you only visit
clean sites, you really run the risk of compromising your system, and
without your knowledge.

I did not buy my computer with the mind that someone will hack it or
whatever. I bought it for work.

I use all of my computers for Work, and I bought them knowing that there
are very real threats to the OS's and applications in every network,
including protected networks. I configured my systems so that I have the
best performance and best ability to stay clean, knowing that there are
many threats we're exposed to on a daily basis.

To get back on topic, for the majority of users, especially home users
that are not technical, IE is a serious threat to their security and
systems.

 

[Philip Hristov]

Leythos,

I do not have your experience with programmers (yeah, I am below 25) ,
but know that - PHP is not a computer language! It is a script language
- the author of PHP defines PHP as a script language. Oh, yes and I can
discount a programmer for liking a particular language - the prefered
language shows how the person thinks and etc.

Also, I cannot share your vision about the good and the bad
programmers. For me, the good one is that who do his duties well and
the bad one - who does not.

And can I ask you one personal question? Is it true that in US the
employers rejects people with MCAD, MCSD, Brainbench etc. certificates?

And if you do not count the university diploma, why the heck I tried to
get it? I got my skills before the university. Also if you are
interested you can check my diplom work (I do not know how it is called
in English - project which the university requires from a student to
present at the end of the education in order to recieve the diplom) to
see in which of your categories I fit in and to see how the "fresh
meat" is. Drop me an e-mail to give the address.

Best,

Philip.

 

[Philip Hristov]

Is not!

P.S. I am on broadband connection, my SP2 ICF is turned on (which is
useless because I am behind NAT) and I can configure my AV. Thank you

 

[Kerry Brown]

Leythos,

I do not have your experience with programmers (yeah, I am below 25) ,
but know that - PHP is not a computer language! It is a script language
- the author of PHP defines PHP as a script language. Oh, yes and I can
discount a programmer for liking a particular language - the prefered
language shows how the person thinks and etc.

Also, I cannot share your vision about the good and the bad
programmers. For me, the good one is that who do his duties well and
the bad one - who does not.

And can I ask you one personal question? Is it true that in US the
employers rejects people with MCAD, MCSD, Brainbench etc. certificates?

And if you do not count the university diploma, why the heck I tried to
get it? I got my skills before the university. Also if you are
interested you can check my diplom work (I do not know how it is called
in English - project which the university requires from a student to
present at the end of the education in order to recieve the diplom) to
see in which of your categories I fit in and to see how the "fresh
meat" is. Drop me an e-mail to give the address.

Best,

Philip.

You are arguing semantics. A language that is used to cause a computer to do
something is a computer language. Didn't they teach you that in university?
Some are better than others for certain tasks. Some are easier to use. Some
enforce better programming styles. So what? A competent programmer uses the
tools at hand to make the computer do what they want it to. A good
programmer writes a program that has few bugs, is easy for someone else to
modify later if needed, and actually understands why the program works. An
excellent programmer understands why the preceding is important. There are
few excellent programmers.

Kerry

 

[Stan Brown]

Yes, like the one I've been using steadily since 2002, Opera. And IT
doesn't use the IE engine!

Neither do Mozilla and Firefox -- they use the Gecko engine.

For support of the standards, recent versions of Opera and
Mozilla/Firefox have a few differences, but they're like the
difference between West 47th and Wst 48th street. The difference
between either and MSIE 6 is the difference between New York City
and Miami.

 

[Stan Brown]

Here's a good question for you - are you securing IE as in MS Security
recommendations for IE? If you are, how are you browsing the web, public
sites, and getting the same presentation that you would in FireFox in it's
default mode?

With IE secured as MS recommends, things like Media Player and Word
Help are virtually unusable because of the constantly reiterated
"Are you sure you want to run this script?" warnings.

 

[Leythos]

Also, I cannot share your vision about the good and the bad programmers.
For me, the good one is that who do his duties well and the bad one -
who does not.

One has to offer more than servitude to the shop they work for - being
able to provide solutions in the form of many paths is what makes a good
programmer (any employee really).

As yourself this: Is there more than one way to do the job, any job, and
do you want the guy that just does the minimum in the maximum amount of
time with the least amount of compatibility or do you want the one that
does the job with all the requirements, the additional documentation, the
compatibility for expansion, and with the thought that, based on past
experience, that this will be usable in other applications not yet
developed, and that does it in less time than the minimum guy?

And can I ask you one personal question? Is it true that in US the
employers rejects people with MCAD, MCSD, Brainbench etc. certificates?

I have yet to get a resume/interview with a MCSE/MCSD that could pass our
internal testing process for application development. Applicants on H1's
or L1's or US Citizens, the MCSE/MCSD just means you can take a test and
know the material needed to pass the test, which is not an absolute
indicator of real-world job performance ability. (yes, I know that MCSE
isn't a MCAD, I was covering networking and applications)

And if you do not count the university diploma, why the heck I tried to
get it? I got my skills before the university. Also if you are

You misunderstood, I didn't say I discount it, I said that my experience
all of the country, working with people from many countries and
backgrounds, is that once you get beyond grunt level that none of those
things is an indicator of competence in programming.

interested you can check my diplom work (I do not know how it is called

I'm not interested in your diploma/certification - this thread we're in
was talking about IE/FireFox and you said that PHP was not a programming
language. I've seen a lot easier scripting LANGUAGES to learn, and PHP
does count as a "scripting language".

 

[Smitty]

| Drew,
|
| Technically speaking - IE is way better than Firefox. Firefox won't
| open some of the sites which I am using (apart of WU). Yes. Firefox is
| the best browser from the competeting browsers, but it has to eat more
| milk with nesquick to be the best in the market. For example IE
| supports .NET controls, Firefox does not. IE is vulnerabale because it
| has so many features and it is most widespread browser.
|
| Regards,
|
| Philip
|

Seems to me that you put some of the negatives in the IE positive
column!

 

[Guest]

Mozilla is more for the people, they aren't leaning back counting the
millions...they do this for pride, and when something does come out that has
a negative effect of firefox they are releasing a fix asap not during the
"monthly update roll out"