Disk Partition Software

[POKO]

I did not intend this to become a collection of snippets of who said
what to whom and I refuse to go there. My statement that certain parties
here were responsible for the bad treatment JC got in the ng by
supporting certain posters. Does the Tweaty Bird Song bring back any
memories. Yes, it was funny as hell when first posted, but the twit that
spent all that time writing lyrics was not admonished for the crap that
went on and on - no, he was supported by a lot of folks reading this
today. Sure, JC is a gruff individual as it comes from riding a bike and
having friends doing such. I think the ng was enriched by JC and
certainly policed of spammers and individuals just looking to raise
hell. If you feel that you have done no injustice to John then carrry on
carrying on, but you'll sure as hell get more from me when you give
someone else hell for trying to inject something other than freeware
into acf - the exact thing JC was trying to do.
Best,
POKO

--
P. Keenan - Webmaster
Web Page Design
Manitoulin Island, Canada
http://manitoulinislandindex.com
(e-mail address removed)

 

[jo]

If you feel that you have done no injustice to John then carrry on
carrying on, but you'll sure as hell get more from me when you give
someone else hell for trying to inject something other than freeware
into acf

A troll manifesto if I ever saw one.

 

[POKO]

A troll manifesto if I ever saw one.

Troll my ass - you're really something. Princessfollower is what you
are.
Drop dead,
POKO
--
P. Keenan - Webmaster
Web Page Design
Manitoulin Island, Canada
http://manitoulinislandindex.com
(e-mail address removed)

 

[xmp]

xmp wrote:




LOL

What was the last nym *I* used for posting here with? And when was it?

i could care less about you, or your online activities. however, i am
not making sweeping generalizations about you as Omega did to me.
that's the difference. i am thus not accountable, because i cannot be
accused of similar behavior to Omega. Omega is attempting to play God,
and I am not.

if Omega is oblivious of basic attribution theory, then he shouldn't
make such comments about others. it's trivial to read headers, and even
more trivial to recognize similar posting techniques and use of language.

michael

 

[xmp]

Posters who jump questions to post shareware promos annoy me. Those
who defend this practice annoy me even more.

i never defended it per se, which is quite obvious to anyone who can

The problem is that it has begun to corrode the very readability of ACF.
To where I can no longer automatically save recommendations for programs
that I'm not familiar with, because the rate of shareware promo is growing
so high. To where others that come in are also being fed false info. They
ask for freeware recommendations, and get back idiotic pointers to payware.

i agree Shareware should probably not be posted. unless to state that
there is no viable alternative. in the case of VMware and Kasperky
antivirus, there is no freeware on the planet that is anywhere near as
good. thus the poster should understand that freeware solutions will
probably not meet their needs. i also consider BootItNG to be much
better than most freeware alternatives, although the latter are
gradually getting better.

So you hide your identity -- and then flame me that you have done so.
I am not willing to get into some long drawn-out engagement with you.

i never hide my identity. i sign all my posts with "Michael," i often
use lowercase throughout, i speak in a condescending manner, and i use
the Eastern Earthlink NNTP server, often from Dallas, Atlanta, or
Nashville IP addresses. i'm sorry that i travel a lot and use various
computers with different configurations. this is not hiding, it's
simply my habits and my life.

If you want to continue to try to muddle trialware and shareware in
with freeware, it's a total waste of my time to even argue with you.

i agree that we aren't getting anywhere.

michael

 

[omega]

What was the last nym *I* used for posting here with? And when was it?

i could care less about you, or your online activities. however, i am
not making sweeping generalizations about you as Omega did to me.
that's the difference.

The "sweeping generalization" was stating that you are just passing through.
This was based, not just on the newness of your nym, but even more so on
the bizarre position you took. To muddle up a program that is very clearly
and unambiguously payware -- in with freeware -- and defending that type
of recommendation as a purpose for ACF.

I'd given you the benefit of the doubt, in thinking that you were from
discussion groups where this wasn't so against the focus of freeware
group, that you were not deliberately being irrational.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
:: From: omega <[email protected]>
:: Message-ID: <[email protected]>
::
:: xmp <[email protected]>:
:: >
:: > most people here are just looking for free stuff, so trials, freeware,
:: > open-source, shareware trials, betas often meet their needs.
::
:: ACF has been here for a number of years as a discussion group for
:: freeware. Not for trialware. Not for shareware. You are just passing
:: through. It is your failure both in instinct and in experience here
:: to have failed in this essential distinction.
::
:: You probably came from discussion groups where finding "any kind of
:: solution to meet someone's needs" was the defined purpose. Be aware
:: that none of those places were alt.comp.freeware. Go back to them
:: if you want that purpose. Using ACF to promote payware is deliberate
:: trolling against its defined topic.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

i am thus not accountable, because i cannot be accused of similar behavior
to Omega. Omega is attempting to play God, and I am not.

Saying things like this, esp the "play God" topper, you flame yourself.

if Omega is oblivious of basic attribution theory, then he

And in your self-flames, there is embedded irony about which your are
fascinatingly unconscious.

 

[omega]

i never defended it per se, which is quite obvious to anyone who can read
between the lines.

o You call the difference between *freeware* and payware trials
"word games." !!

o You suggest the purpose of ACF should include recommending payware
trials.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:: From: xmp <[email protected]>
:: Message-ID: <[email protected]>
::
:: > > It is for one time use, for 30 days. If you keep it longer, it costs.
::
:: > Still, it isn't freeware, IMHO. It's 30-day trial.
::
:: true, we can play word games all day. [...]

:: most people here are just looking for free stuff, so trials, freeware,
:: open-source, shareware trials, betas often meet their needs.
______________________________________________________________________________

<obligatory ad hominem> i assume you failed English lit-crit class.

Your juvenile flame relates to the subject of freeware how _______?
No, don't answer. The question is rhetorical.

I have been violating my own principle to waste time with those who do
not merit the attention. You are not only a hopeless case when it comes
to the issue itself, but there is a rancid stink in your very writing.
You are hereby in my killfile, xmp or whatever your are. Feel free to
carry on spouting all the krap you wish.

 

[Tim]

Sometimes a trial is all that is needed. An example from personal
experience is a partition manager. I bought a new computer and wanted
to modify the partitions without loss of data. Ranish PM could do
that, but it was IMO much harder to use than BootIT NG, a 30-day
trial.

I down-loaded BootIT, did the repartitioning in a few minutes, and
haven't used it since.

And can't use it again legally, unless you first used it less than 30
days ago. "You may not re-install or additionally install the Evaluation
Software for additional evaluation periods."

It suited my purposes perfectly, it was free, I
used it in strict accordance with the EULA.

Maybe. If it did what you wanted it to do you should've bought it. The
license doesn't say use it as freeware for 30 days, it says "You may use
this Evaluation Software without charge for a limited time only, and
solely to decide whether to purchase a paid license for the software
from TeraByte."

Nevertheless, some people here don't like to see a trial-ware
recommendation no matter how perfectly it suits the requester's needs.
That's their problem. This is not a moderated NG, nor is it even a
majority-rule NG.

Of course, but it is an open forum where you can be expect to be
criticised if anyone doesn't like what you say. That criticism doesn't
even have to be fair, polite or correct... indeed it might be virulent,
wrong and obscene.

 

[omega]

I can see both sides of the coin.

REM, I think you might have missed its origin of this thread. This is the
original post.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
:: From: "Root" <[email protected]>
:: Message-ID: <[email protected]>
::
:: Looking for a (freeware) disk partitioning program to merge two FAT32
:: partitions. Just trying to combine the current D:\ space with the C:\
:: drive. Don't see that FDISK allows this without destroying the C:\ drive
:: data.
::
:: Recommendation(s)?
::
:: Much thanks. -root
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The solution offered was $ware, but
it did solve the problem at hand with 20 days to spare. Other
solutions, like Ranish were offered. Ranish does take time to get
comfortable with, but it's not time limited. The experience of the OP
was the reason a simplier, yet not freeware, solution was offered.

When a program is requested in ACF, it is implicit that one is seeking
freeware. The post here even made a point to declare the wish for freeware
explicitly.

There is nothing in that post where I interpret it's a do-once only
kind of thing. I think that most of us who non-destructively repartition
our disks, we do it routinely. Even if it were somehow the only time this
person would ever want to repartition (hard for me to imagine), that still
by no means makes BootitNG into a freeware solution. The license in
BootitNG states that the trial is allowed only for when you have genuine
interest in the consideration of purchase.

As to the experience of the original poster, I disagree on that, too.
They didn't state anything to suggest that they cannot handle the task.
Moreover, I doubt that someone who chooses the nym "root" would be the
type who would like to be considered one who needs easy hand-holding
or one who doesn't want to spend any time reading help texts.

Another item about this thread origin, REM. It was not a discussion
where different available products were compared, not one where a poster
declared that they couldn't find feature X & Y in any freeware (all of
which I consider natural contexts for where we sometimes have to nod out
heads towards certain payware products).

Instead, the recommendation that lept in, it was from the blind. Here
was where it raised its head for this thread:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
:: From: (e-mail address removed)
:: Message-ID: <[email protected]>
::
:: You might search this NG for subject "partition". I seem to remember a
:: thread that mentioned BOOTIT NG, and I downloaded it. Haven't used it
:: yet, so can't attest to its efficacy. However, seems I remember most
:: posters in the thread were quite complimentary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

When I'd seen that at the time, the poster looked to me like a victim.
Of misinformation. Due to the instances in ACF where payware gets
recommended in stealth, and none of us succeeded in posting a followup
to clarify that it was not a freeware product which was being recommend.

Whether the poster did actually know or not know at the time of this initial
post, that's open to interpretation, after seeing his followup comments, but
not that important.

What is important was where the proper thing was done next. Someone posted
a followup to the post to above, to state that it is not freeware. This
very much needs to be done. I disagree strongly that stealth payware promos
should be ignored.

From there came in those very screwy posts saying how payware is close
enough to freeware, appropriate to ACF for "meeting needs", etc.

[....]

You see, no matter how many splinters a person can make, 2 people can
make, and 3 people can make even more. At some point, someone will
likely realze that it's getting tough to splinter small splinters and
the group of splinerers will call it a night..

This isn't one of the threads about purity of freeware, about liteware, or
adware, nor about license of using components in our OS.

This is about a very fundamental and crucial distinction: between freeware
and payware/trialware.

If you forfeit that distinction, then to me, you are forfeiting the very
foundation of the freeware group.

I fully agree that this is alt.comp.freeware and the topic really
should orbit around freeware. How close an orbit? Not a choking one
for sure...

I agree. And you can find in my own posts occasionally mentions of payware
products, when they have features that appear to not be offered anywhere
in freeware. Discussing that can be a way really to further explore the
subject of freeware itself. What has been overlooked, what is missing,
what is wanted.

That is quite a different thing from the way questions get jumped with
random payware recommendations, as if the criterion of freeware license
were wholly irrelevant.

A different thing, too, from when we see these people counter with
absurdities like, "Well, its FREE because you can download it free and
it's a free trial."

It is that trend, growing this year in ACF, which bothers me a great deal.

messages like this one seem endless and give threads an appearance of
being endless, talking about what we're talking about.

You've got that right. ACF sometimes falls into talking about itself more
than talking about its subject. I plead guilty for indulging this one..

 

[Tim]

I think you are being too cute because you ask for a counsel of near-
perfection when you say "People need REAL solutions not band-aids".

The solution I posted about (using BOOTIT) works, works well, works
legitimately, works for as long as the OP probably has the current
requirement.

I agree that 30 day solutions are usually poor but this is not a
request for something ke a frequently used text-editor. This is a
request for a tool to do a one-off operation.




Also the obligation to pay for it (or it's parent software) has not
diminished with the passing of time.

There is another problem of course... BootItNG is great software
combining boot manager, partitioner and disk imager and it's great
value... but it doesn't merge partitions. You could of course manually
do what is usually done by partitioning software when you merge
partitions, which is resize one of the partitions to be large enough to
hold the contents of both partitions, then copy the contents of the
second partition into a newly created folder in the first partition and
then delete the second partition.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

i agree Shareware should probably not be posted. unless to state that
there is no viable alternative. in the case of VMware and Kasperky
antivirus, there is no freeware on the planet that is anywhere near as
good. thus the poster should understand that freeware solutions will
probably not meet their needs. i also consider BootItNG to be much
better than most freeware alternatives, although the latter are
gradually getting better.

So what? Photoshop is better than any of the freeware alternatives.
Should we then never recommend, for instance, the excellent
Photofiltre, because you can get something better if you pay several
hundred dollars?

I've come across several illogical arguments to justify pushing $ware
in alt.comp.freeware over the years, but I believe you've set a new
record which will be hard to beat.

Never mind the contest for the freeware logo, we need a $ware medal.

 

[REM]

REM, I think you might have missed its origin of this thread. This is the
original post.

I had only a vage recollection of the beginnings of th thread. I was
in a time vise back when it started, but I still quickly browsed the
group to relieve stress from time to time.

When a program is requested in ACF, it is implicit that one is seeking
freeware. The post here even made a point to declare the wish for freeware
explicitly.

Very true.

There is nothing in that post where I interpret it's a do-once only
kind of thing. I think that most of us who non-destructively repartition
our disks, we do it routinely. Even if it were somehow the only time this
person would ever want to repartition (hard for me to imagine), that still
by no means makes BootitNG into a freeware solution. The license in
BootitNG states that the trial is allowed only for when you have genuine
interest in the consideration of purchase.

That I did not catch. It makes sense though.

As to the experience of the original poster, I disagree on that, too.
They didn't state anything to suggest that they cannot handle the task.
Moreover, I doubt that someone who chooses the nym "root" would be the
type who would like to be considered one who needs easy hand-holding
or one who doesn't want to spend any time reading help texts.

I had missed that as well.

What is important was where the proper thing was done next. Someone posted
a followup to the post to above, to state that it is not freeware. This
very much needs to be done. I disagree strongly that stealth payware promos
should be ignored.

I suppose that was the point I was trying to make. I went to google
groups to review and I did not need the MID. The thread is listed on
the right side, evidently because there is so much traffic in it.

I don't recall you back when Blinky was here, maybe you lurked or used
another nym. Anyway, someone innocently posted that Paint Shop Pro was
included in a magazine cover CD. This promotion was only available in
one country iirc.

Anyway, for weeks heated threads spawned and grew... over a simple
mention followed by a rather abrupt attempt to censor the thread.

From there came in those very screwy posts saying how payware is close
enough to freeware, appropriate to ACF for "meeting needs", etc.

That's exactly how it played out. I'm not sure if it was a limited
version, an old version, or the full blown version. I was interested
in simply hearing that a program of this caliber was included with a
CD.

This led to trench warfare and the threads went on and on.

Had the original gone uncontested, the thread would have consisted af
a few thank you posts. It was a simply FYI post.

After all of the bickering, personal insults, flames etc. nothing was
changed. It still an .alt group in which most anything may be posted.

The question I cannot answer for others is, "Was this really the best
way to deal with such a post?"

A scorched earth policy?

Feelings get hurt in such exchanges. I'm still not sure why Poko is
still demeaning Susan in a thread she's not really involved in. I
simply try to understand, as Poko has been a presence here for quite
awhile and this is not a normal response.

If there were a mediator who would listen to the defense and the
prosecution and make a binding ruling it would be wise to expend the
time to mount either. There is no such entity, however. There is only
us who read ACF and the new people who wander in and out.

This is about a very fundamental and crucial distinction: between freeware
and payware/trialware.

I have no problem with this at all. I think the vast majority fully
agree here.

I can control only what I read and write though. There will always be
someone pushing the line out there. I just think it better for the
group, most of which are true freeware enthusiasts, not to indulge
those who wander off -> into large, heated threads.

I'm not going to try the $ware suggested and I'm certainly not going
to recommend it. I really thought the post BamBam made that it was
trialware would be EOD. It's difficult not to indulge sometimes, I
fully understand that.

If you forfeit that distinction, then to me, you are forfeiting the very
foundation of the freeware group.

I do not forfeit. I simply disagree in trench warfare... because we
are a collection of freeware enthusiasts! Many things may go unsaid.

I agree. And you can find in my own posts occasionally mentions of payware
products, when they have features that appear to not be offered anywhere
in freeware. Discussing that can be a way really to further explore the
subject of freeware itself. What has been overlooked, what is missing,
what is wanted.
Exactly!

That is quite a different thing from the way questions get jumped with
random payware recommendations, as if the criterion of freeware license
were wholly irrelevant.

I agree, and I will never follow those recommendations. There are very
few here (that I am familar with) who do not fully respect the
license. That's why they chose this group.

A different thing, too, from when we see these people counter with
absurdities like, "Well, its FREE because you can download it free and
it's a free trial."

Ah, it is alt.comp.freeware though and most of us are here for a
reason and will ignore such mention, unless nothing freeware is
offered and the program in question does solve the problem..

I see the best method of countering is simply recommending good
freeware that will do the job. I wanted to recommend FIPS. I literally
had to make myself give up my recreational reading and get back on
task. I did not have the time to lookup FIPS to see if it would work
in newer formats. It was a killer project that we were determined to
do well in.

It is that trend, growing this year in ACF, which bothers me a great deal.

It's not a new trend. It's been a painful point of contention since
I've been reading and I'm sure it will be for a long, long time. Check
the links at the end. You'll most likely see someone saying the exact
thing you're saying, someone saying the exact thing I'm saying, etc.,
back in 2000.

You've got that right. ACF sometimes falls into talking about itself more
than talking about its subject. I plead guilty for indulging this one..

It's pretty natural to take a stand. At some point everything that can
be said has been said. I don't really think that anyone involved was
changed by the discussion, which begs, was it totally necessary?

I think it might be necessary; from time to time. The vast majority of
the time this will suffice:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

BamBam Dec 3, 12:11 am

Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware
From: bambam <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:11:42 +1300
Local: Fri, Dec 3 2004 12:11 am
Subject: Re: Disk Partition Software

The one caution--BOOTIT is

Not freeware!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

for me, anyway.


Selected PaintShop Pro Threads:

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#66be1ea632730e36>


<http://groups-beta.google.com/group...comp.freeware&scrollSave=&&d#cc1a68a21fc499f0>


<http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#da09455dc1714a26>

Sorry for the lengths. Not for the faint hearted. A simple
demonstration of trench warfare and the wholesale futility of it.

Things are exactly now, as they were before and after these threads
were posted. Nothing changed, at all.

Deja Vu.. all over again?

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

Selected PaintShop Pro Threads:

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#66be1ea632730e36>


<http://groups-beta.google.com/group...comp.freeware&scrollSave=&&d#cc1a68a21fc499f0>


<http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#da09455dc1714a26>

Sorry for the lengths. Not for the faint hearted. A simple
demonstration of trench warfare and the wholesale futility of it.

I quite understand the points you make, but I would differ. What
these posts illustrate, and where they fail, in many cases, is in
their humourless arrogance, intolerance and the undeniable pleasure
that the protagonists take in kicking lumps out of each other. That's
tiresome and it was part of trend that made this group nearly
unreadable for a while. It isn't their defence of the freeware nature
of the group that's at fault, it's the tone.

You quote Bambam's excellent "not freeware" response as adequate. So
it is, if the matter stops there. It was probably a mistake on the
poster's part. When there's an insistence that it's right to
recommend payware in this freeware group, more is clearly needed.

Things are exactly now, as they were before and after these threads
were posted. Nothing changed, at all.

Perhaps, on that occasion. I can't say. That was during a period
when I ignored the group because it had become such a snake-pit due to
the lack of self-discipline of some posters.

The general trend I've noted is that the gradual incursion of payware
solutions increases until it meets resistance, ebbs for a while and
starts again. Hardly surprising, really. We're dealing with a
combination of innocent ignorance by newbies and a wish to sneak in a
free advert by others. Resistance works, for a time, and that's the
best one can hope for.

Deja Vu.. all over again?

Yep, but with a more measured response, I hope, and therefore one that
has more chance of succeeding. But yes, the insistence that the group
is for freeware has to continue, ad infinitum if necessary.

 

[REM]

Perhaps, on that occasion. I can't say. That was during a period
when I ignored the group because it had become such a snake-pit due to
the lack of self-discipline of some posters.

Very true. The tone was a major part of the endless threads.

The general trend I've noted is that the gradual incursion of payware
solutions increases until it meets resistance, ebbs for a while and
starts again. Hardly surprising, really. We're dealing with a
combination of innocent ignorance by newbies and a wish to sneak in a
free advert by others. Resistance works, for a time, and that's the
best one can hope for.

Maybe I've been selectively skipping threads like this one without
realizing it. The, "Not Freeware!" post did it for me. After seeing
that the thread was continued I guess that curousity got the best of
me... and here I am. Darnit!

I have not noted the escalation in $ware recommendations, so what I
said might be ill-conceived. At some point the people reading and
posting do need to re-agree on what is the purpose of meeting here,
for sure.

As time tightened the last few months I really think I began only
reading those I know to post good things to the group, where I read
almost everything before.. I think I gave up on threads also, when I
saw them derail, like this one. I'm catching up, I guess, and
apparently missed this trend.

The PSP threads I don't think I can ever forget. Really, nothing
changed in a positive way from those threads.

Yep, but with a more measured response, I hope, and therefore one that
has more chance of succeeding. But yes, the insistence that the group
is for freeware has to continue, ad infinitum if necessary.

Well said!

The current makeup of posters differs wildly from those in the PSP
thread. I stand corrected!

I feel somewhat foolish for contrasting the threads now. They are very
different indeed.

 

[Franklin]

I have been violating my own principle to waste time with those
who do not merit the attention. You are not only a hopeless
case when it comes to the issue itself, but there is a rancid
stink in your very writing. You are hereby in my killfile, xmp
or whatever your are. Feel free to carry on spouting all the
krap you wish.

Omega

In all sincereity, could you add me to your killfile too please. I
do not appreciate the rather unfair and unkind things you have posted
about me in this group.

I think it is better for all concerned that wyou and I try to limit
how frequently our paths cross.

Thank you.

 

[jo]

Troll my ass - you're really something. Princessfollower is what you
are.
Drop dead,

Gosh.

How gruff (sic). I bet you ride a bike*.

* Apparently there are those who think that an individual's capacity for
basic manners is affected by their mode of transport.

 

[Franklin]

REM, I think you might have missed its origin of this thread.
This is the original post.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
:: From: "Root" <[email protected]>
:: Message-ID:
:: <[email protected]>
::
:: Looking for a (freeware) disk partitioning program to merge
:: two FAT32 partitions. Just trying to combine the current
:: D:\ space with the C:\ drive. Don't see that FDISK allows
:: this without destroying the C:\ drive data.
::
:: Recommendation(s)?
::
:: Much thanks. -root
--------------------------------------------------------------


When a program is requested in ACF, it is implicit that one is
seeking freeware. The post here even made a point to declare the
wish for freeware explicitly.

There is nothing in that post where I interpret it's a do-once
only kind of thing.

I disagree. I feel that the poster is relatively new to disk
partitioning because he says "Don't see that FDISK allows this
without destroying the C:\ drive data". Well that is very true and
very obvious. I think we all know that.

He also says he is "Just trying to combine the current D:\ space with
the C:\ drive". Now what he means is a partition re-size but he
seems not to view it that way. Almost as if he thinks he can include
the D space into C by getting C to address that space and/or by
simply moving the partition boundary.

All this suggests he is relatively new. And as such this is an
operation he has not done before and I do not expect him to until he
buys a new hard drive. As a result it is a do-once operation for the
foreseeable future.

I think that most of us who
non-destructively repartition our disks, we do it routinely.
Even if it were somehow the only time this person would ever
want to repartition (hard for me to imagine), that still by no
means makes BootitNG into a freeware solution. The license in
BootitNG states that the trial is allowed only for when you have
genuine interest in the consideration of purchase.

Spare me, please.

As to the experience of the original poster, I disagree on that,
too. They didn't state anything to suggest that they cannot
handle the task. Moreover, I doubt that someone who chooses the
nym "root" would be the type who would like to be considered one
who needs easy hand-holding or one who doesn't want to spend any
time reading help texts.

I humbly suggest the OP would be unable to do the task using Ranish
with as little self-preparation as is required by BootIt without
making some sort of error.

Another item about this thread origin, REM. It was not a
discussion where different available products were compared, not
one where a poster declared that they couldn't find feature X &
Y in any freeware (all of which I consider natural contexts for
where we sometimes have to nod out heads towards certain payware
products).

Instead, the recommendation that lept in, it was from the blind.
Here was where it raised its head for this thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------
:: From: (e-mail address removed)
:: Message-ID: <[email protected]>
::
:: You might search this NG for subject "partition". I seem to
:: remember a thread that mentioned BOOTIT NG, and I downloaded
:: it. Haven't used it yet, so can't attest to its efficacy.
:: However, seems I remember most posters in the thread were
:: quite complimentary.
--------------------------------------------------------------

When I'd seen that at the time, the poster looked to me like a
victim. Of misinformation. Due to the instances in ACF where
payware gets recommended in stealth, and none of us succeeded in
posting a followup to clarify that it was not a freeware product
which was being recommend.

Whether the poster did actually know or not know at the time of
this initial post, that's open to interpretation, after seeing
his followup comments, but not that important.

What is important was where the proper thing was done next.
Someone posted a followup to the post to above, to state that it
is not freeware. This very much needs to be done. I disagree
strongly that stealth payware promos should be ignored.

From there came in those very screwy posts saying how payware is
close enough to freeware, appropriate to ACF for "meeting
needs", etc.

What, exactly, do you think the OP should have been told?

Remember, he has a problem and there is no obvious freeware which can
easily and readily address his problem.

[....]

You see, no matter how many splinters a person can make, 2
people can make, and 3 people can make even more. At some
point, someone will likely realze that it's getting tough to
splinter small splinters and the group of splinerers will call
it a night..

This isn't one of the threads about purity of freeware, about
liteware, or adware, nor about license of using components in
our OS.

This is about a very fundamental and crucial distinction:
between freeware and payware/trialware.

If you forfeit that distinction, then to me, you are forfeiting
the very foundation of the freeware group.

IMHO, that is too much philosophizing. The OP has a problem so help
him fix it.

As I posted earlier in <[email protected]>
on Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:24:17 GMT ...

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

Spare me, please.

Sure, ignore the license if its terms are inconvenient for you.

IMHO, that is too much philosophizing. The OP has a problem so
help him fix it.

If you think there's no good freeware solution, as you seem to be
claiming, you could direct the OP to a helpful group that is not
about freeware rather than ignoring the fact that this one is about
freeware. Telling the OP to '**** off', as you put it earlier, was
hardly your only alternative to recommending payware here.

 

[Helen]

That still makes it shareware, so take your BS to alt.comp.shareware,
and stop trying to prove what a dumb ****ing non-conformist you are.

Yes and no! No it isn't 'freeware' however, you don't have to pay UNLESS
you keep it longer than the conditional time stated. Thus it isn't worth
arguing
about. Perhaps just say, "not freeware", but a temporary solution to your
immediate problem: (sorta like the doughnut spare tire when you have a flat
- it gets you to the tire repair place but is not intended to be used
constantly
as with a REAL tire).
Merry Christmas to all.
Keep the FREEWARE free, and when it isn't, saying so don't mak it so.

 

[Susan Bugher]

What, exactly, do you think the OP should have been told?

The OP asked for freeware recommendations. If you have one tell him.

Remember, he has a problem and there is no obvious freeware which can
easily and readily address his problem.

IMHO, that is too much philosophizing. The OP has a problem so help
him fix it.

IOW - *ignore* the OP's question (he didn't ask for a "problem
solution"). Great advice. . . not.

Susan