Disk Partition Software

B

BarryTone

I have to chime in here. I keep reading references to a single person
(the OP). What needs to be realized is that *many* people read the
recommendations and may attempt to use them.
 
C

Christian

not freeware at all - it is a trial.

find something else, like ranish partition manager, or others

I am relatively new to this group, but this thread freak me out. I do not
know in what respect since I won't spend too much time on it, but it is at
least amazingly long and includes postings from people not able to
understand the very basic of off/on topic. Strictly spoken I am totally
off topic right now in this newsgroup, but posting in this thread forces
me to! :)

Simple facts:

This group is called alt.comp.freeware which means it should be dealing
with software which is free (or announce payware that has become free
etc.). Free means that you do not need to pay anything to anyone for using
it. If it isn't free it doesn't belong here. Is that concept so horribly
complicated? :)

If you go to alt.comp.linux and start discussing BSD you are told to go to
the BSD group. You could argue that BSD is very close to Linux since they
both are flavors of Unix, but these kind of discussions do not really
occur. Here they do and people gets really worked up over it. If someone
knowingly posts payware related here they should simply be ignored or told
once that it's not appropriate. What am I missing?????
 
S

Susan Bugher

Simple facts:

This group is called alt.comp.freeware which means it should be dealing
with software which is free (or announce payware that has become free
etc.). Free means that you do not need to pay anything to anyone for
using it. If it isn't free it doesn't belong here. Is that concept so
horribly complicated? :)

If you go to alt.comp.linux and start discussing BSD you are told to go
to the BSD group. You could argue that BSD is very close to Linux since
they both are flavors of Unix, but these kind of discussions do not
really occur. Here they do and people gets really worked up over it. If
someone knowingly posts payware related here they should simply be
ignored or told once that it's not appropriate. What am I missing?????

$ware is an easy OT call. There are shades of gray in other wares - that
complicates things a bit. We'll be doing an on/off topic opinion poll in
January 2005. The last one is here:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Posting.php

Scoll down to "How to win friends and avoid flames." ;)

Susan
 
C

Christian

$ware is an easy OT call. There are shades of gray in other wares - that
complicates things a bit. We'll be doing an on/off topic opinion poll in
January 2005. The last one is here:
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/Posting.php
Scoll down to "How to win friends and avoid flames."

What about a definition of the term "freeware" that covers some of the
shades? I used the term "pay anything to anyone". That would for instance
cover software with an ad embedded which profit is donated to the Free
Software Foundation. :)

I am looking forward to the poll and will not only try to win friends, but
also try to deserve the friendhip...
 
S

Susan Bugher

Christian said:
What about a definition of the term "freeware" that covers some of the
shades? I used the term "pay anything to anyone". That would for
instance cover software with an ad embedded which profit is donated to
the Free Software Foundation. :)

"Freeware: Legally obtainable software that you may use at no cost,
monetary or otherwise, for as long as you wish."

Note the "monetary or otherwise" => *Freeware* does not show ads, have
nags, time out, contain malware, etc. etc. etc.

ACF's Ware Glossary is here (link is at the top of ~all web pages):

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/acf/WareGlossary.php
I am looking forward to the poll and will not only try to win friends,
but also try to deserve the friendhip...

Welcome aboard friend. :)

Susan
 
O

omega

Semolina Pilchard said:
Selected PaintShop Pro Threads: [...]
Sorry for the lengths. Not for the faint hearted. A simple
demonstration of trench warfare and the wholesale futility of it.

I quite understand the points you make, but I would differ. What
these posts illustrate, and where they fail, in many cases, is in
their humourless arrogance, intolerance and the undeniable pleasure
that the protagonists take in kicking lumps out of each other. That's
tiresome and it was part of trend that made this group nearly
unreadable for a while. It isn't their defence of the freeware nature
of the group that's at fault, it's the tone.

You quote Bambam's excellent "not freeware" response as adequate. So
it is, if the matter stops there. It was probably a mistake on the
poster's part. When there's an insistence that it's right to
recommend payware in this freeware group, more is clearly needed.
Things are exactly now, as they were before and after these threads
were posted. Nothing changed, at all.

Perhaps, on that occasion. I can't say. That was during a period
when I ignored the group because it had become such a snake-pit due to
the lack of self-discipline of some posters.

The general trend I've noted is that the gradual incursion of payware
solutions increases until it meets resistance, ebbs for a while and
starts again. Hardly surprising, really. We're dealing with a
combination of innocent ignorance by newbies and a wish to sneak in a
free advert by others. Resistance works, for a time, and that's the
best one can hope for.
Deja Vu.. all over again?

Yep, but with a more measured response, I hope, and therefore one that
has more chance of succeeding. But yes, the insistence that the group
is for freeware has to continue, ad infinitum if necessary.

Semolina, I've decided that, on these issues of concern, I want to hire
you to write my posts for me.

I need you to cover the yob of acute observation, thought development,
and expression in a form succinct & eloquent. It's coming up recurrently
now, where I read one like this, and feel an "oooh wish I'd said that ...
and said it that way."

Exception: the one about the faerie doll. While it well expressed how
I felt, I'd not have been so brazen as to hit send on that one. :)
 
O

omega

REM said:
The PSP threads I don't think I can ever forget. Really, nothing
changed in a positive way from those threads.



Well said!

The current makeup of posters differs wildly from those in the PSP
thread. I stand corrected!

I feel somewhat foolish for contrasting the threads now. They are very
different indeed.

They are still always a good reminder, and not wholly without relevance.

I'm all for the "kinder, gentler ACF" that we've largely moved towards.
There used to be regulars here who engaged as their primary routine in
the bullying and belittling of other posters -- frequently without any
justification, mainly a way to amuse themselves and similar reasons. It's
good to stay aware of the importance of making effort towards civility.

However, this is a situation where full silence does not seem to work.
As Semolina noted, when we say no words in follow-up to payware promos,
then to newer ACF readers, those posts appear acceptable, and the result
is an uptide of more of them resulting ... until we resist.

And the payware vs freeware issue, it is not one of those smaller things
that has historically blown up threads out or proportion. Such as arguments
on posting on something that is less than the purest degree of freeware,
or those regular flames that used to occur any moment a non-clique poster
drifted into OT asides, or, argh, that endless top/bottom posting warfare.

In that Paintshop thread, Susan B makes ref to the difference about the
matter of shareware.

:: I'm not interested in CDware posts. OTOH they don't pose the kind of
:: threat that shareware posts do. CDware posts won't overwhelm the
:: newsgroup. Flamewars can.
::
:: Some fights *must* be fought. I don't think the CDware fight is one
:: of them. FIDO

The matter of dealing with the shareware promotions, that's a fight that
must be fought.
 
S

Semolina Pilchard

Semolina, I've decided that, on these issues of concern, I want to hire
you to write my posts for me.

I need you to cover the yob of acute observation, thought development,
and expression in a form succinct & eloquent. It's coming up recurrently
now, where I read one like this, and feel an "oooh wish I'd said that ...
and said it that way."

Thank you, ma'am, for those kind words. Such praise does my withered
ego good of a morning. My opinions are informed by what is now very
long experience of this group, and they benefit from the standards set
by SoS and Genna over the years.

Even in the instances where I had directly replied to you, I was so
little successful in eliciting a reply that I feared I was
incarcerated in your killfile - I suspect I am in one or two. Now I
see that - at least sometimes - your silence was assent.
Exception: the one about the faerie doll. While it well expressed how
I felt, I'd not have been so brazen as to hit send on that one. :)

Quite so. My natural home is in Another Group, more, shall we say,
outspoken than this one. I do try to remember where I am and mind my
manners accordingly. This was an occasion where I failed and was
guilty of cracking a peanut with a sledgehammer.
 
V

Vic Dura

Yes and no! No it isn't 'freeware' however, you don't have to pay UNLESS
you keep it longer than the conditional time stated. Thus it isn't worth
arguing
about. Perhaps just say, "not freeware", but a temporary solution to your
immediate problem: (sorta like the doughnut spare tire when you have a flat
- it gets you to the tire repair place but is not intended to be used
constantly
as with a REAL tire).
Merry Christmas to all.
Keep the FREEWARE free, and when it isn't, saying so don't mak it so.

Good analogy.
 
O

omega

Semolina Pilchard said:
Thank you, ma'am, for those kind words. Such praise does my withered
ego good of a morning. My opinions are informed by what is now very
long experience of this group, and they benefit from the standards set
by SoS and Genna over the years.

Even in the instances where I had directly replied to you, I was so
little successful in eliciting a reply that I feared I was
incarcerated in your killfile - I suspect I am in one or two. Now I
see that - at least sometimes - your silence was assent.

Often in a discussion with someone, I'll have initial impulse to post
a response, then realize that I have nothing solid to add at that point.
Others handle that better, in not having any kind of compulsion that
their reply must be long and elaborate, and simply being able to follow
up with a few polite words.

Then there is that other situation, of not being directly involved in a
discussion with someone, and very much liking certain posts. There, I do
as maybe many do: retain articles that are very good, silently. Trying
to keep my "me too" counts down within the recommended monthly allowance.

(Consider this an aggregate "well-said"/"metoo" for a number of your
articles. Now, that done, it's back up with my firewall of silence. <g>)
 
J

Joe Silver

Semolina said:
But I don't think, somehow, that we're likely to settle for minority
Vic Dura rule, either. Tell me, do you get commission for the
commercial solutions you promote in alt.comp.freeware?

This reminds me of forums I've seen on the subject of Linux, where
someone might post a perfectly reasonable criticism of Linux and receive
a flood of replies along the lines of "You must be a shill for
Microsuck, dude!" Just because someone recommends a solution that might
reside in a nebulous area between freeware and non-freeware (in this
case, one that would do the job for free, totally within the provisions
of the EULA, as log as the user runs it only once) doesn't make them a
shill.
 
S

Semolina Pilchard

This reminds me of forums I've seen on the subject of Linux, where
someone might post a perfectly reasonable criticism of Linux and receive
a flood of replies along the lines of "You must be a shill for
Microsuck, dude!" Just because someone recommends a solution that might
reside in a nebulous area between freeware and non-freeware (in this
case, one that would do the job for free, totally within the provisions
of the EULA, as log as the user runs it only once) doesn't make them a
shill.

Personally, I don't care what it reminds you of, Joe. What I do mind,
though, is that you went back a couple of weeks to dig up that post so
you could continue with your one, boring obsession.

Does that make you a troll?
 
J

joesilver

Semolina said:
Personally, I don't care what it reminds you of, Joe. What I do mind,
though, is that you went back a couple of weeks to dig up that post so
you could continue with your one, boring obsession.

Does that make you a troll?

My apologies, Sem. Honestly, I misread the date on the post to which I
was replying. I realized only after sending my post that I had replied
to a message that was a month old.

However, I resent your remark that I have "one, boring obsession" and
your insinuation that I am a "troll." These comments are inaccurate and
insulting. And however much you care or don't care what it reminds me
of, rest assured that I care even less for what you "do mind," Sem.
 
S

Semolina Pilchard

My apologies, Sem. Honestly, I misread the date on the post to which I
was replying. I realized only after sending my post that I had replied
to a message that was a month old.

Apology accepted.
However, I resent your remark that I have "one, boring obsession" and
your insinuation that I am a "troll." These comments are inaccurate and
insulting. And however much you care or don't care what it reminds me
of, rest assured that I care even less for what you "do mind," Sem.

My apologies also. I assumed that you had dug up that post with the
intention of continuing a dead argument, which annoyed me not a
little. My further remarks arose from that and in light of your
honest mistake, I withdraw them.
 
J

James

Joe Silver said:
This reminds me of forums I've seen on the subject of Linux, where someone
might post a perfectly reasonable criticism of Linux and receive a flood
of replies along the lines of "You must be a shill for Microsuck, dude!"
Just because someone recommends a solution that might reside in a nebulous
area between freeware and non-freeware (in this case, one that would do
the job for free, totally within the provisions of the EULA, as log as the
user runs it only once) doesn't make them a shill.

What is a "shill"?
 
M

Mike Dee

What is a "shill"?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill>

"A shill is an associate of a person selling a good or service, who
pretends no association and assumes the air of an enthusiastic
customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to
encourage other potential customers, unaware of the set-up, to purchase
said good or service".
 

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