Disk Partition Software

[Susan Bugher]

Another misleading web interface (although this one not providing that
amusement of gurgling out nutzoid allegations about netnews posters
being its users)...it's talkaboutshareware.com. The one that dominates
Google results lists these days when doing searches where there are a
lot of ACF hits.

http://www.talkaboutshareware.com/index.php

| Shareware
| If you like free stuff you’ve found the place for free software.
| Shareware and Freeware are just two of the topics discussed here.
| Talk About Network gives you the forum to discuss, rate and post
| your ideas, thoughts and reviews of the latest or the oldies but
| goodies in the land of programs that are free or almost free.

Notice the "almost free." This IMO encourages the confusion with "free
downloads" and "free trials," as well as those other type of posts that
have been getting littered here, which say things like, "But it's only
$9."

| Forum name & Description
|
| authors
| Freeware Discussion
| Freeware Games
| Freeware General
| Jgaa
| Shareware
| Shareware Announce
| Shareware Authors
| Shareware Nettamer
| Shareware Programmer
| Shareware Users

These are usenet groups, whose names it has hidden. The way AOL used to
do, in that interface it used to have that left so many of its users totally
unconscious that they were even posting to usenet.

The link to "Freeware General" is for ACF. Their interface page for the
ACF posts has this as heading.

Home > Shareware > Freeware General

I don't see the alt.comp.freeware name anywhere. Not at the front door,
not on the ACF page, and not even on the individual posts. Instead they
have used their own construct. Cozied up there with shareware. Saying to
come in and "talk here about programs that are almost free."

I don't know if these places have much influence yet, but the way they
lay things out is a problem in itself. We've long battled the sneaky
"free download" con that is rampant on the web. It is very annoying to
see the web interests reaching over to usenet to cause more deceptive
blur, even robbing alt.comp.freeware of its own name.

http://www.sixfiles.com/forum
http://www.talkaboutshareware.com/

have been mentioned - here are some more sites with web forums that show
ACF posts (sometimes labeled, sometimes not):

http://www.chataboutshareware.com/
http://www.comp-help.org/
http://encoderx.co.uk/news/
http://www.freeware-forum.com/
http://www.brujula.net/
http://newsgroup.caltanet.it/
http://www.globalnews.it/
http://www.codecomments.com/
http://www.talkaboutmac.com/
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/
http://groups.tutorgig.com/
http://www.1001annonces.com/
http://news-reader.org/
http://www.newsgate.ru/
http://www.xasa.es/grupos/alt/thread/alt.comp.freeware/

Posting usenet groups as web forums is a recent phenomena. If there has
been an increase in the number of shareware and OT posts in ACF ISTM
that one likely cause of that increase is the web forums that obscure
the alt.comp.freeware name.

re possible revisions in the weekly ACF info post. I've got two
suggestions:

1. Make the post every day.
2. Begin the post with something like this:

Web forums don't always tell people that these messages are newsgroup
posts. The messages you send will be newsgroup posts.

This is the ALT.COMP.FREEWARE newsgroup. FREEWARE posts are welcome.

Susan

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

re possible revisions in the weekly ACF info post. I've got two
suggestions:

1. Make the post every day.
2. Begin the post with something like this:

Web forums don't always tell people that these messages are newsgroup
posts. The messages you send will be newsgroup posts.

This is the ALT.COMP.FREEWARE newsgroup. FREEWARE posts are welcome.

I think that would be helpful. Many of the recent posts discussing or
recommending $ware seem to be innocently intended, rather than
malicious or agenda-driven.

I can see no possible harm that it could do.

 

[granpaw]

I'm just a little confused with that statement. Is the above not what
John Corliss was preaching for so many years only to be criticized and
debased by acfers like yourself and the rest of the princess's motley
crew? Kindly get your story straight, posted for the world to see and
understand so we poor minions know where the hell you lot are coming
from. My instinct and experience tell me somebody here is full of crap
and I just gotta find out if its you and the princess or the rest of the
world. I've been an irregular here for years and mounting reels on tape
drives since you were wearing diapers so please don't consider this
trolling.
Best wishes,
POKO

Uhh...am I missing something here???
Is this *person* calling POKO a troll, and think he's just "passing
through" ??? DUH!
Didn't know people *that* stupid were allowed on usenet....sigh.
BTW this was posted with Xnews (freeware content).

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

re possible revisions in the weekly ACF info post. I've got two
suggestions:

1. Make the post every day.
2. Begin the post with something like this:

Web forums don't always tell people that these messages are
newsgroup posts. The messages you send will be newsgroup posts.

This is the ALT.COMP.FREEWARE newsgroup. FREEWARE posts are
welcome.

I like it. Maybe a link could be added to a page which gives
instructions on how to access a.c.f via NNTP as well. (Though I am a
bit horrified that a daily newsgroup post explaining how to properly
access the newsgroup might be necessary.) We could give instructions
on how to set up the readers on the PL, and possibly others, to work
with new.individual.net, in terms that people who are only used to
webforums could easily follow.

 

[dszady]

ACF has been here for a number of years as a discussion group for
freeware. Not for trialware. Not for shareware. You are just passing
through. It is your failure both in instinct and in experience here
to have failed in this essential distinction.

You probably came from discussion groups where finding "any kind of
solution to meet someone's needs" was the defined purpose. Be aware
that none of those places were alt.comp.freeware. Go back to them
if you want that purpose. Using ACF to promote payware is deliberate
trolling against its defined topic.

If this person is a 'newbie', give them a break. Sheesh. And if not a
'newbie' give them a break.EOD.

 

[Susan Bugher]

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:03:43 -0500, Susan Bugher


I think that would be helpful. Many of the recent posts discussing or
recommending $ware seem to be innocently intended, rather than
malicious or agenda-driven.

I agree. Cross-posted threads have been an *occasional* problem in the
past and have led to $ware posts in ACF that were made by people posting
to groups where such recommendations are appropriate. ISTM what we have
now is in effect a *continual* cross-posting problem.

I can see no possible harm that it could do.

That's my feeling too: can't hurt, might help. . .

Susan

 

[Susan Bugher]

I like it. Maybe a link could be added to a page which gives
instructions on how to access a.c.f via NNTP as well. (Though I am a
bit horrified that a daily newsgroup post explaining how to properly
access the newsgroup might be necessary.) We could give instructions
on how to set up the readers on the PL, and possibly others, to work
with new.individual.net, in terms that people who are only used to
webforums could easily follow.

The PL2004 CD page has a sentence or two about that and the URL for
new.individual.net. I'm going to add the same info to the "Posting Tips"
page "real soon now". . .

I'd be happy to add more info if someone else is willing to prepare it.

Susan

 

[Franklin]

From the first moment Franklin newbie'd his way in here, and now
culminated in this thread with his declaration of his purpose:
he has sought to change alt.comp.freeware to alt.comp.software.

Omega, old boy. Steady on, chap. We are all newbies at one
time or another.

I suspect you might be going too far to take what I have posted to
this thread as some "declaration of purpose" (as you call it).

How do you debate with someone who refuses to accept the topic
of the newsgroup?

I understand your frustration as you have a more purist approach to
this topic. I think debates about the etymology and meaning of words
like "freeware" will get us nowhere. I understand what "freeware"
means. And so do you.

What I post is not deliberately malicious and you should consider
desisting from making out my motives to be inherently destructive.

It's like dealing with someone who wants to change a vegetarian
discussion group topic to "My favorite recipes, w #1 meatloaf."
Or any other usenet troll type.

Please recall that in my first post to this thread I wrote:

"Not freeware (yeah,I know the name of this
group) but free for your purpose for now".

And in another posting I was to add:

... and at any time in the future within 30 days

and later I wrote

"I agree that 30 day solutions are usually poor
but this is not a request for something like a
frequently used text-editor. This is a request
for a tool to do a one-off operation."

----

Yes, I still understand the word "freeware". However there is no
freeware to do this task at the level of expertise which the OP seems
to display.

Rather than telling the OP to '**** off' because there is no freeware
for him I felt it is appropriate still to try and help him, albeit in
a way which is no longer strictly in accordance with this group.

Let me give you an analogy. Let's say I run a newspaper shop and
someone comes in for a newspaper then that is ok. Now let's say
someone comes in looking for the nearest phone box. I don't tell
them to get the hell out of my shop because I am a newsagent and not
a tourist bureau. Instead I would tell the guy where it is.

And so this applies to what happened here. The OP asked for a simple
partition tool to do a one-off functionally straightforward but high-
risk task which he seemed rather unfamiliar with. I know Ranish is
totally unsuitable for someone like him, so I told him how to do it
and at the same time adding that it was "not freeware" but he would
still legitimately not need to pay anything.

Maybe if I had put "off-topic" in my subject line then you would have
been assuaged?

 

[Franklin]

One thing that has changed is that some web sites are showing
ACF posts. I just checked a few of those sites. The norm seems
to be to show the posts as if the site is hosting a forum. The
forum responses get posted here.

Yes, this is happening more and more.

I wonder if a poster has truy and actually given up all rights to
where his or her post appears. The web-based copycat sites seem to
think it is so.

Heh! Maybe I need a sig which says:

© 2004 Reproduction Prohibited

 

[jo]

I understand what "freeware"
means.

So you're just a troll then...

 

[Vegard Krog Petersen]

_________________________
| |
| alt.comp.freeware |
| |
| WHAT PART OF FREEWARE |
| DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? |
|_______________________|
| |
| | O
o | | |
__\|/___=\| |/=_\|/____

Beautiful, Susan!

I had not followed this thread and I'm gobsmacked about being a
'unregistered user' on sixfiles.com forums...

regards from vegard

 

[Susan Bugher]

Beautiful, Susan!

it's available here should you want to use it in a post:

http://www.markcarter.me.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FlamePage

I had not followed this thread and I'm gobsmacked about being a
'unregistered user' on sixfiles.com forums...

not *just* there. . . try Googling. . .

Results 1 - 100 of about 2,130 for "Vegard Krog Petersen"

I think most of these forums have appeared within the last year. The
online world has changed. . . again. . .

Susan

 

[xmp]

I'm just a little confused with that statement. Is the above not what
John Corliss was preaching for so many years only to be criticized and
debased by acfers like yourself and the rest of the princess's motley
crew? Kindly get your story straight, posted for the world to see and
understand so we poor minions know where the hell you lot are coming
from. My instinct and experience tell me somebody here is full of crap
and I just gotta find out if its you and the princess or the rest of the
world. I've been an irregular here for years and mounting reels on tape
drives since you were wearing diapers so please don't consider this
trolling.

Omega is starting to annoy me. just because "xmp" only arised recently
doesn't mean i haven't been here for a while. obviously i am here
because i was interested in freeware. obviously Omega is too naive
and/or incompetent to properly analyze headers and see how long i have
been here.

anyway "meeting one's needs" and "proper posting" are two different
concepts. i never said that posting shareware and trials was
acceptable, simply that it often filled the niche. Omega is too inept
to handle simple distinctions such as this.

and to equate a supposed naive post with "trolling" is a silly statement
.... and doesn't justify a rebuttal from me (or anyone).

i could care less about tradition anyway. if you knew me, you'd
understand i'm the opposite of that. all that exists is the charter,
and the rest is conversation (and Omega's ad hoc definitions).

once Omega demonstrates remedial knowledge of Usenet header analysis and
associated attribution theory, I may grace him with a direct reply.

michael

 

[omega]

Omega is starting to annoy me.

Posters who jump questions to post shareware promos annoy me. Those
who defend this practice annoy me even more.

The problem is that it has begun to corrode the very readability of ACF.
To where I can no longer automatically save recommendations for programs
that I'm not familiar with, because the rate of shareware promo is growing
so high. To where others that come in are also being fed false info. They
ask for freeware recommendations, and get back idiotic pointers to payware.

obviously Omega is too naive and/or incompetent to properly analyze headers

So you hide your identity -- and then flame me that you have done so.
I am not willing to get into some long drawn-out engagement with you.

If you want to continue to try to muddle trialware and shareware in
with freeware, it's a total waste of my time to even argue with you.

 

[jo]

obviously Omega is too naive
and/or incompetent to properly analyze headers and see how long i have
been here.

LOL

What was the last nym *I* used for posting here with? And when was it?

 

[REM]

This might be a setup, but I think that almost everyone who has been
here awhile might see a defect in the above.

Anyway, it's an alt unmoderated forum, unfortunately. We must take the
good with the bad. Luckily the good heavily outweighs the bad. My
daily readings of those posting the good stuff with coffee every
morning is something I'd have a severe problem with if I were
sentenced to no more ACF...

The combined knowledge, logic, hard work by web site maintainers, and
the problem solving are an amazing asset. The personalities are as
interesting as the information, in most cases anyway. The others, not
always easily, can be ignored.

Thanks to all who contribute to my daily readings!

 

[Mike Andrade]

Omega is starting to annoy me.

Welcome to reality.

 

[POKO]

snip
The combined knowledge, logic, hard work by web site maintainers, and
the problem solving are an amazing asset. The personalities are as
interesting as the information, in most cases anyway. The others, not
always easily, can be ignored.

Thanks to all who contribute to my daily readings!

Rem - I feel the same way, but the question I posed re: JC still goes
unanswered. These folks can't have it both ways without being
questionned about their treatment to John.
Best,
POKO

--
P. Keenan - Webmaster
Web Page Design
Manitoulin Island, Canada
http://manitoulinislandindex.com
(e-mail address removed)

 

[REM]

Rem - I feel the same way, but the question I posed re: JC still goes
unanswered. These folks can't have it both ways without being
questionned about their treatment to John.

As one of the patrician's minons <G>, as I can't spell the plural of
princess, I can only offer that I prefer pure freeware here. That's
not saying that only freeware solutions will be offered here, however.
It is an .alt group. Is princess's correct?

I can see both sides of the coin. The solution offered was $ware, but
it did solve the problem at hand with 20 days to spare. Other
solutions, like Ranish were offered. Ranish does take time to get
comfortable with, but it's not time limited. The experience of the OP
was the reason a simplier, yet not freeware, solution was offered.

Now I try to recommend pure freeware. I have recommended utilyzing
tools available in Windows to solve problems, simply because they
solved the problems and I knew of no existing freeware that would do
it better. That's $ware. But it solved the problem; not even the time
of a download and unzipping was required. MS-DOS batch, is a good
example.

Now, 4DOS is freeware, but I don't know the syntax like I do for DOS.

Actually, I don't recall 4DOS at all. It was the DOS days the last
time I used it. I don't use any DOS enough, or have enough
(defragmented and working) memory cells to reacquaint myself with 4DOS
syntax and switches. Is it really a cardinal sin if I offer MS-DOS
batch someone can use to solve a problem when 4DOS is freely
available?

You see, no matter how many splinters a person can make, 2 people can
make, and 3 people can make even more. At some point, someone will
likely realze that it's getting tough to splinter small splinters and
the group of splinerers will call it a night..

We could splinter further, by mentioning only freeware that was
written and compiled in a sucky freeware IDE, like Quincy? It just
doesn't make sense to lean too far in any direction. Moderation is the
key. No, not like a.c.f.m. Toleration.

We ramble amongst ourselves in OT banter, but that's a part of what
makes the place special to me. It's an alt group where anything might
be said.

Commercial software is bound to be mentioned and occasionally
recommended here. What is really the best action that each of us can
take when that occurs?

1) recommend freeware, offer help, or
2) ignore the post?



John and I got off to a pretty Rocky start many years ago. I've come
to know him since then and admire him for being himself. We were
simply so different that it was oil and water. I think he might have
gotten to know me too and understand that we were different. Check in
John, I've come to miss you here.

I fully agree that this is alt.comp.freeware and the topic really
should orbit around freeware. How close an orbit? Not a choking one
for sure...

it's .alt.

messages like this one seem endless and give threads an appearance of
being endless, talking about what we're talking about.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Rem - I feel the same way, but the question I posed re: JC still goes
unanswered. These folks can't have it both ways without being
questionned about their treatment to John.

Hi POKO,

John C. is quite free in his criticism of others - are you suggesting he
should be immune from criticism? What "treatment to John" are you
talking about? Are you referring to the response I made to John's
criticism of me in the "greeting card" and "Moi disgustimento." threads?

<q>
Subject: Re: greeting card
From: Susan Bugher <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:55:32 -0500
Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware

To the end user that may be true. However, for the purposes of

mentioning it in this group, it's simply unacceptable at least to me.

Hello John,

IMO your flame posts *discourage* accurate ware descriptions. According
to Google the post you objected to was the 27th post in ACF about "Just
Right Click Greeting Card". The first 26 posts drew no objection from you.

*Identifying* it as Adware was the trigger that set you off.

I've seen others try to avoid flames by omitting any mention of ware
types they know you disapprove of. They *do* post about the apps - but
they *don't* describe them accurately. . .

Susan
</q>

I stand by those remarks. I think John's tactics were often
counter-productive.

Susan