XP Pro SP2 wont warm boot

[Monkey Hanger]

Hi guys,

I'm pulling my hair out on this one.
Windows XP Pro SP2 and all updates; Gigabyte GA-81TXR with P4 2 gigger and
512Mb Ram

My system just wont do a restart at all. It gets as far as the black screen
between Windows is starting and the Welcome screen and it just hangs. The
mouse pointer is very jerky and eventually stops moving.
It even locks up at the same point when I exit the BIOS to Windows.
I've searched the MSKB and found nothing to help. I've checked and rechecked
all the BIOS settings. I've disabled all the resident software (Anti-virus,
Firewall etc) one by one but nothing helps.
All hardware has the current drivers.
Reg Mechanic and Sytem Mechanic don't report anything.
Norton Antivirus and Firewall, Pest Patrol,Spybot and AdAware don't report
anything.

I don't remember exactly when this all began, but it's certainly been quite
a few weeks now.

About the only thing I haven't done is to do a re-install over the top
(yet).

I am wondering if this could be a PSU problem? I have 3 HDD's and a DVD
drive, a Firewire card, a USB2 card and internal hub and an internal multi
card reader. These last 2 both take power direct from the PSU. Is all this
too much for my 300watt PSU?

Cold boots are not a problem at all, just warm reboots and restarts.

 

[David]

Due to what you say, it sounds as if something is getting stuck in
memory. When you restart the machine (cold) then the memory is flushed,
however when booting "warm" sometimes the memory is not released. Have
you had any blue screens or any memory problems while you are in
windows and everything is running "fine". You may also want to try
updating all your device drivers or try taking one out at a time to see
if it was one of the extra pc cards you have the computer. There are
always more things to try after that.

 

[Malke]

Due to what you say, it sounds as if something is getting stuck in
memory. When you restart the machine (cold) then the memory is
flushed, however when booting "warm" sometimes the memory is not
released. Have you had any blue screens or any memory problems while
you are in
windows and everything is running "fine". You may also want to try
updating all your device drivers or try taking one out at a time to
see if it was one of the extra pc cards you have the computer. There
are always more things to try after that.

Please quote some of the original post when you reply for clarity.
However, what you have written here, while original, is technically
incorrect.

Here is most of the Original Poster's question:

***
My system just wont do a restart at all. It gets as far as the black
screen between Windows is starting and the Welcome screen and it just
hangs. The mouse pointer is very jerky and eventually stops moving.
It even locks up at the same point when I exit the BIOS to Windows.
I've searched the MSKB and found nothing to help. I've checked and
rechecked all the BIOS settings. I've disabled all the resident
software (AnI am wondering if this could be a PSU problem? I have 3
HDD's and a DVD drive, a Firewire card, a USB2 card and internal hub
and an internal multi card reader. These last 2 both take power direct
from the PSU. Is all this too much for my 300watt PSU?

Cold boots are not a problem at all, just warm reboots and
restarts.ti-virus, Firewall etc) one by one but nothing helps.
All hardware has the current drivers.
***

The problem is almost certainly caused by failing hardware and has
nothing to do with software (Windows, drivers, antivirus, etc.). Your
computer is seriously underpowered for the devices you have in there,
so yes it could be simply that you need to replace your psu. You could
also have overheating and/or other failing components. Here are general
hardware troubleshooting steps. I would definitely start by swapping
the psu out for something that is at least 450 watts and good quality.

1) Open the computer and run it open, cleaning out all dust bunnies and
observing all fans (overheating will cause system freezing). Obviously
you can't do this with a laptop, but you can hear if the fan is running
and feel if the laptop is getting too hot.

2) Test the RAM - I like Memtest86+ from www.memtest.org. Obviously, you
have to get the program from a working machine. You will either
download the precompiled Windows binary to make a bootable floppy or
the .iso to make a bootable cd. If you want to use the latter, you'll
need to have third-party burning software on the machine where you
download the file - XP's built-in burning capability won't do the job.
In either case, boot with the media you made. The test will run
immediately. Let the test run for an hour or two - unless errors are
seen immediately. If you get any errors, replace the RAM.

3) Test the hard drive with a diagnostic utility from the mftr. Download
the file and make a bootable floppy or cd with it. Boot with the media
and do a thorough test. If the drive has physical errors, replace it.

4) The power supply may be going bad or be inadequate for the devices
you have in the system. The adequacy issue doesn't really apply to a
laptop, although of course the power supply can be faulty.

5) Test the motherboard with something like TuffTest from
www.tufftest.com. Sometimes this is useful, and sometimes it isn't.

Testing hardware failures often involves swapping out suspected parts
with known-good parts. If you can't do the testing yourself and/or are
uncomfortable opening your computer, take the machine to a professional
computer repair shop (not your local equivalent of BigStoreUSA).

Malke

 

[Monkey Hanger]

Please quote some of the original post when you reply for clarity.
However, what you have written here, while original, is technically
incorrect.

Here is most of the Original Poster's question:

***
My system just wont do a restart at all. It gets as far as the black
screen between Windows is starting and the Welcome screen and it just
hangs. The mouse pointer is very jerky and eventually stops moving.
It even locks up at the same point when I exit the BIOS to Windows.
I've searched the MSKB and found nothing to help. I've checked and
rechecked all the BIOS settings. I've disabled all the resident
software (AnI am wondering if this could be a PSU problem? I have 3
HDD's and a DVD drive, a Firewire card, a USB2 card and internal hub
and an internal multi card reader. These last 2 both take power direct
from the PSU. Is all this too much for my 300watt PSU?

Cold boots are not a problem at all, just warm reboots and
restarts.ti-virus, Firewall etc) one by one but nothing helps.
All hardware has the current drivers.
***

The problem is almost certainly caused by failing hardware and has
nothing to do with software (Windows, drivers, antivirus, etc.). Your
computer is seriously underpowered for the devices you have in there,
so yes it could be simply that you need to replace your psu. You could
also have overheating and/or other failing components. Here are general
hardware troubleshooting steps. I would definitely start by swapping
the psu out for something that is at least 450 watts and good quality.

1) Open the computer and run it open, cleaning out all dust bunnies and
observing all fans (overheating will cause system freezing). Obviously
you can't do this with a laptop, but you can hear if the fan is running
and feel if the laptop is getting too hot.

2) Test the RAM - I like Memtest86+ from www.memtest.org. Obviously, you
have to get the program from a working machine. You will either
download the precompiled Windows binary to make a bootable floppy or
the .iso to make a bootable cd. If you want to use the latter, you'll
need to have third-party burning software on the machine where you
download the file - XP's built-in burning capability won't do the job.
In either case, boot with the media you made. The test will run
immediately. Let the test run for an hour or two - unless errors are
seen immediately. If you get any errors, replace the RAM.

3) Test the hard drive with a diagnostic utility from the mftr. Download
the file and make a bootable floppy or cd with it. Boot with the media
and do a thorough test. If the drive has physical errors, replace it.

4) The power supply may be going bad or be inadequate for the devices
you have in the system. The adequacy issue doesn't really apply to a
laptop, although of course the power supply can be faulty.

5) Test the motherboard with something like TuffTest from
www.tufftest.com. Sometimes this is useful, and sometimes it isn't.

Testing hardware failures often involves swapping out suspected parts
with known-good parts. If you can't do the testing yourself and/or are
uncomfortable opening your computer, take the machine to a professional
computer repair shop (not your local equivalent of BigStoreUSA).

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"

Thanks Malke,

Ram checks out OK with Memtest86! Just as well as RIMMs are as scarce as
hens teeth here in theUK.
Case is clean inside and no dust present!
All fans operating normally!
When running everything is fine, no hang ups, no BSOD. Runs sweet!
HDD is brand new. Problem existed with old disk. Used True Image to setup
new HDD!

I think I'll get a new PSU tomorrow! 450watts!

Geoff@York

 

[Malke]

Thanks Malke,

Ram checks out OK with Memtest86! Just as well as RIMMs are as scarce
as hens teeth here in theUK.
Case is clean inside and no dust present!
All fans operating normally!
When running everything is fine, no hang ups, no BSOD. Runs sweet!
HDD is brand new. Problem existed with old disk. Used True Image to
setup new HDD!

I think I'll get a new PSU tomorrow! 450watts!

Geoff@York

Hi, Geoff. If the problem existed with the old hard drive in the system,
then either this is a motherboard issue and/or replacing the psu should
do it. When things work well depending on whether they are hot or cold,
it is usually that some tiny trace is expanding/contracting accordingly
and working only in one of those situations. Unfortunately, these
issues can be very hard to track down. Since having a better psu is A
Good Thing anyway, that's an easy 1st step. If that solves everything,
OK.

Usually the classic sign of a failing psu is the opposite of what you've
got though; i.e., the computer won't cold boot until you push the power
button a number of times. This is because the psu doesn't have enough
"juice" to get the drive(s) spinning up enough to boot the OS. After a
few tries, the momentum of the drive is enough to get it going. In your
case it is like something is getting warm and losing electrical
contact.

So if replacing the psu doesn't solve the issue, you're looking at the
cards - sound, nic, video, etc. - or the motherboard. Let me know how
things work out for you.

Malke

 

[Monkey Hanger]

Hi, Geoff. If the problem existed with the old hard drive in the system,
then either this is a motherboard issue and/or replacing the psu should
do it. When things work well depending on whether they are hot or cold,
it is usually that some tiny trace is expanding/contracting accordingly
and working only in one of those situations. Unfortunately, these
issues can be very hard to track down. Since having a better psu is A
Good Thing anyway, that's an easy 1st step. If that solves everything,
OK.

Usually the classic sign of a failing psu is the opposite of what you've
got though; i.e., the computer won't cold boot until you push the power
button a number of times. This is because the psu doesn't have enough
"juice" to get the drive(s) spinning up enough to boot the OS. After a
few tries, the momentum of the drive is enough to get it going. In your
case it is like something is getting warm and losing electrical
contact.

So if replacing the psu doesn't solve the issue, you're looking at the
cards - sound, nic, video, etc. - or the motherboard. Let me know how
things work out for you.

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"

Malke,

Brand new Jeantech 450watter fitted this morning!
Problem continues

Time to start swapping out all the cards!
USB2 card
Firewire card
AGL Video card.

Sound and NIC are both onboard!

I'll keep you informed.

Geoff@York

 

[Malke]

Malke,

Brand new Jeantech 450watter fitted this morning!
Problem continues

Time to start swapping out all the cards!
USB2 card
Firewire card
AGL Video card.

Sound and NIC are both onboard!

I'll keep you informed.

Geoff@York

I'm sorry I was right (well, you know what I mean) about it not being
the psu. You bought a nice psu though and it wasn't wasted money. As
you say, time to start swapping out cards. If it turns out to be the
m/b, maybe it's still under warranty? Hope, hope.

Good luck, and let me know what happens.

Malke

 

[KG]

Is the system overclocked? If so the problem may be the sys isn't resetting the cpu values to
default to boot. The clue is if the system boots fine when the power is dropped completely for a
20 sec or so, but fails to boot if power isn't shutoff.

Malke,

Brand new Jeantech 450watter fitted this morning!
Problem continues

Time to start swapping out all the cards!
USB2 card
Firewire card
AGL Video card.

Sound and NIC are both onboard!

I'll keep you informed.

Geoff@York

*****************
Thank You (e-mail address removed)

To reply to this email please remove the AT
after the kgs in the reply to address as shown above.

 

[Monkey Hanger]

I'm sorry I was right (well, you know what I mean) about it not being

the psu. You bought a nice psu though and it wasn't wasted money. As
you say, time to start swapping out cards. If it turns out to be the
m/b, maybe it's still under warranty? Hope, hope.

Good luck, and let me know what happens.

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"

Malke,

Oh dear!
All cards swapped out and problem continues!
Either I live with it or, replace mobo, processor and memory.

I think I'll have to live with it.

Geoff@York

 

[Malke]

Monkey Hanger wrote:
"Don't Panic"

Malke,

Oh dear!
All cards swapped out and problem continues!
Either I live with it or, replace mobo, processor and memory.

I think I'll have to live with it.

Geoff@York

It is probably the motherboard. Live with it, keep your data backed up
regularly, use it until it dies and then replace it.

Take care,

Malke

 

[Monkey Hanger]

It is probably the motherboard. Live with it, keep your data backed up
regularly, use it until it dies and then replace it.

Take care,

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"

Thanks for all the help Malke!

Geoff@York

 

[Monkey Hanger]

No overclocking. System is on bog-standard BIOS settings!
System cold boots fine, just wont warm boot.

Geoff@York

 

[Bob I]

For whatever reason sounds like hardware need power removed to force it
to reset. Is there any thing in the BIOS relating to "initialization" or
"reset" for peripherals? Onboard scsi or IDE related may have them.

 

[Armin]

Hi guys,

I'm pulling my hair out on this one.

<snip>

I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the "good hardware gone bad"
bandwagon.

I had the same problem with a Toshiba laptop running XP/SP2. It
restarted fine for months after I originally loaded XP/SP2 but then one
day it would not restart but it would cold boot no problem. I was also
unable to tie this problem back to anything I had changed due to the
fact that I don't restart my laptop that often... I usually either
hibernate or shut down, so it had been quite a while since I had last
restarted it.

Anyway, I did a clean reinstall (formatted HDD) XP/SP2 and the problem
was solved. It now restarts just fine.

If you have access to a spare HDD you might want to try it before
spending a bunch of money replacing perfectly good hardware.

 

[Monkey Hanger]

<snip>

I wouldn't be too quick to jump on the "good hardware gone bad"
bandwagon.

I had the same problem with a Toshiba laptop running XP/SP2. It
restarted fine for months after I originally loaded XP/SP2 but then one
day it would not restart but it would cold boot no problem. I was also
unable to tie this problem back to anything I had changed due to the
fact that I don't restart my laptop that often... I usually either
hibernate or shut down, so it had been quite a while since I had last
restarted it.

Anyway, I did a clean reinstall (formatted HDD) XP/SP2 and the problem
was solved. It now restarts just fine.

If you have access to a spare HDD you might want to try it before
spending a bunch of money replacing perfectly good hardware.

Thanks Armin. I intend doing that after Christmas.

Geoff@York