XP Pro (Gold?) and SP3

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> "Frank-FL"

This page says different.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...0BE-8D85-6BB4F56F5110&displaylang=en#filelist

The deployment section is clear that upgrading from SP1 and SP2 is
supported:

"SP3 is cumulative, so users can install SP3 on top of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2." and "You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows
XP SP1 or SP2"

I skimmed and didn't see anything about XP RTM, either for or against.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Nevertheless, when the user attempts to use WU to update anthing before XP
SP1 he is blocked with the error message that the minimum requirement is
SP1.

It seems to be a "common sense" thing to me - and I like to play
around with my system (just checked my Vista services settings with
Black Viper's "tweaked"- I only found three settings I could stop that
I hadn't stopped).

That said, why anyone would try something when slipstreaming that
isn't recommended is beyond my comprehension.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...0BE-8D85-6BB4F56F5110&displaylang=en#filelist

System Requirements
a.. Supported Operating Systems: Windows XP; Windows XP Home Edition ;
Windows XP Home Edition N; Windows XP Media Center Edition; Windows XP
Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional N; Windows XP Service Pack 1;
Windows XP Service Pack 2; Windows XP Starter Edition; Windows XP Tablet PC
Edition
Windows® XP

 

[Big Al]

BUT, if you actually read the contents of one the files at the link you
posted, it says:

Fundamentally, deploying Windows XP SP3 works the same as deploying SP1
and SP2 for Windows XP:
- SP3 is cumulative, so users can install SP3 on top of Windows XP SP1
or SP2.
- Windows XP SP3 supports the same languages as Windows XP did in its
initial release.
- You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2. For example, you can
run the SP3 update package on a computer running the Windows XP Media
Center Edition with SP1. The
exceptions are Embedded editions for XP wh
Overview of Windows XP Service Pack 3.

And the key words are "on top of Windows XP SP1 or SP2".
Not on top of XP.

 

[Bob I]

And the key words are "on top of Windows XP SP1 or SP2".
Not on top of XP.

Correctamundo!!!

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The rollup of issued patches and updates is cumulative. Other changes
written only by a service pack installer and not later released in an update
would not be included and would not be part of the cumulative rollup feature
of a later sp. This does not negate the rollup nature of a later sp.

The bottom line to all of this is that we all know that SP3 will not install
on an XP Gold installation of Windows when using Windows Update since MS is
blocking this so something is going on relating to SP3 and XP Gold. So why
take a chance that the same issue would not exist when applying other
methods of integrating SP3? The two-stage creation of a slipstreamed cd is
straight forward and renders the question of doing a single-stage
integration pretty academic so why not just do it that way to be safe?

The discussion on this point in this ng shows very different opinions but
these are academic issues. For the user, the practical approach to creating
an integrated cd should be to use a method guaranteed to avoid the problem
entirely. If you can make one slipstreamed cd you obviously are in a
position to make two so the resolution to the uncertainties is just do it.

 

[Big Al]

The rollup of issued patches and updates is cumulative. Other changes
written only by a service pack installer and not later released in an
update would not be included and would not be part of the cumulative
rollup feature of a later sp. This does not negate the rollup nature of
a later sp.

The bottom line to all of this is that we all know that SP3 will not
install on an XP Gold installation of Windows when using Windows Update
since MS is blocking this so something is going on relating to SP3 and
XP Gold. So why take a chance that the same issue would not exist when
applying other methods of integrating SP3? The two-stage creation of a
slipstreamed cd is straight forward and renders the question of doing a
single-stage integration pretty academic so why not just do it that way
to be safe?

The discussion on this point in this ng shows very different opinions
but these are academic issues. For the user, the practical approach to
creating an integrated cd should be to use a method guaranteed to avoid
the problem entirely. If you can make one slipstreamed cd you obviously
are in a position to make two so the resolution to the uncertainties is
just do it.

I read someplace that there is a piece of software missing in XPGold
that makes slipstream of SP3 impossible, or renders it somewhat broken.
I wish I had bookmarked the link, but it seemed pretty
authoritative. And obviously SP1 or SP2 have put that 'thing' into
the OS making SP3 work.

 

[Frank-FL]

BUT, if you actually read the contents of one the files at the link you
posted, it says:

Fundamentally, deploying Windows XP SP3 works the same as deploying SP1
and SP2 for Windows XP:
- SP3 is cumulative, so users can install SP3 on top of Windows XP SP1
or SP2.
- Windows XP SP3 supports the same languages as Windows XP did in its
initial release.
- You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2. For example, you can
run the SP3 update package on a computer running the Windows XP Media
Center Edition with SP1. The
exceptions are Embedded editions for XP wh
Overview of Windows XP Service Pack 3.

Yep, that is what the link states.

 

[Frank-FL]

And the key words are "on top of Windows XP SP1 or SP2".
Not on top of XP.

a.. Supported Operating Systems: **Windows XP**; Windows XP Home Edition ; Windows
b.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
c.. XP Home Edition N; Windows XP Media Center Edition; Windows XP Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional N; **Windows XP Service Pack 1; Windows XP Service Pack 2**;
d.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
e.. Windows XP Starter Edition; Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

 

[Frank-FL]

Correctamundo!!!

Both of you must have learned reading comprehension from the USA public
school system.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I hope you find the link because that sounds exactly like what came out of
some discussions in the SP3 beta newsgroup. I wish that the newsgroup was
still on the betanews server so I could retrieve some quotes from the team
but MS took the ng down a couple of months ago. One thing I remember
clearly is that slipstreaming works but the resulting installed OS is broken
someplace.

 

[Big Al]

I hope you find the link because that sounds exactly like what came out
of some discussions in the SP3 beta newsgroup. I wish that the
newsgroup was still on the betanews server so I could retrieve some
quotes from the team but MS took the ng down a couple of months ago.
One thing I remember clearly is that slipstreaming works but the
resulting installed OS is broken someplace.

It had to be in the past week, I'll browse my history for a bit over the
next day. I'd love to pass it on. I've been bookmarking every "good"
link lately that anyone here has posted. Its easier to bounce them
back at others. I'm brainless and need a PC to help me

 

[Big Al]

I hope you find the link because that sounds exactly like what came out
of some discussions in the SP3 beta newsgroup. I wish that the
newsgroup was still on the betanews server so I could retrieve some
quotes from the team but MS took the ng down a couple of months ago.
One thing I remember clearly is that slipstreaming works but the
resulting installed OS is broken someplace.

This seems to be the only link I can find. MS might be hedging on the
safe side because of something like this. Better to say use SP1 than
no and then have people complain huh?!!

http://www.theeldergeek.com/slipstreamed_xpsp3_cd_final.htm

The extract is:
In every other slipstreaming tutorial I've done I've always had the 'I
experienced absolutely no problems' sentence in the previous paragraph.
It still holds true with SP3 but with a caveat. One of the changes in
SP3 involves Windows Product Activation and being able to perform a
full, integrated installation of Windows XP SP3 without providing the
product key during the installation. This is true, but only if you use
Windows XP SP1 or Windows XP SP2 as the basis for the slipstreamed CD.
It does not hold true when you use a Gold Edition CD as has always been
my practice in previous slipstreaming tutorials.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

That's a bit more specific than I have seen so far, so good job. I do
recall some beta testers suspected that the later introduction of WGA might
be related as well but the team would not comment on that point. The team
stated that a number of problems could occur unless the user stuck to SP1
and later. We never could get a specific example out of them but a couple
of testers commented that they had seen a flaky thing or two.

If you want to see how screwed up a slipstreamed product can be, just for
fun use Vista x86 as the platform and then slipstream any XP cd with SP3.
Sometimes you get an OEM copy that wants a VLK pk, and so on. I think it is
because the servicing stack in Vista does not support slipstreaming. MS
says that they will fix that in a future Vista service pack but it did not
happen in SP1.

 

[Bob I]

Yep, that is what the link states.

Then WHY did you say, and I quote,

"This page says different."

 

[Bob I]

Both of you must have learned reading comprehension from the USA public
school system.

Sorry but it's your posting language that is the issue.

 

[Big Al]

a.. Supported Operating Systems: **Windows XP**; Windows XP Home Edition ; Windows
b.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
c.. XP Home Edition N; Windows XP Media Center Edition; Windows XP Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional N; **Windows XP Service Pack 1; Windows XP Service Pack 2**;
d.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
e.. Windows XP Starter Edition; Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

I totally agree. Microsoft is ambiguous at best in this document.
You can read it two ways and you can read in or out anything you want.
If I put my name on it, and since its so hard, I tell people to put in
SP1 or 2, then 3. Only because of my previously quoted sentence in
that article. I hedge to the safe side.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

From the Overview of Windows XP SP3 deployment section (in its entirety):

"Deploying Windows XP SP3
Windows XP SP3 will be available through Windows Update and the Microsoft
Download Center. The service
pack will also be available to Volume License customers, TechNet
subscribers, and MSDN® subscribers.
Through Windows Update, the download size varies, but it is typically 70
megabytes (MB), depending on the
computer's configuration. Through the Download Center, the download size is
approximately 580 MB.
Fundamentally, deploying Windows XP SP3 works the same as deploying SP1 and
SP2 for Windows XP:
? SP3 is cumulative, so users can install SP3 on top of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2.
? Windows XP SP3 supports the same languages as Windows XP did in its
initial release.
? You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2. For example, you can
run the SP3 update package on a computer running the Windows XP Media Center
Edition with SP1. The
exceptions are Embedded editions for XP.
? Tools and guidance for system administrators have not fundamentally
changed from Windows XP SP2.
For comprehensive information, visit the Deploy Windows XP Professional and
Windows XP Service
Pack 2 Deployment Information sites on Microsoft TechNet.
? You can deploy SP3 using Microsoft Systems Management Server 2003,
Microsoft System Center
Configuration Manager 2007, or third-party solutions. The process has not
fundamentally changed.
Windows XP SP3 is for x86 editions of Windows XP only. The x64 editions of
Windows XP were serviced by
Windows Server 2003 SP2. For additional information, go to Windows Server
2003 Service Pack 2."

Do you see anything that says that users can install SP3 on anything before
SP1 or run the update package on anything before SP1?

Is there something wrong with YOUR reading comprehension, Frank?

Correctamundo!!!

Both of you must have learned reading comprehension from the USA public
school system.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

From the SP3 Overview:

"You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2."

And the key words are "on top of Windows XP SP1 or SP2".
Not on top of XP.

a.. Supported Operating Systems: **Windows XP**; Windows XP Home Edition ;
Windows
b.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
c.. XP Home Edition N; Windows XP Media Center Edition; Windows XP
Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional N; **Windows XP Service Pack
1; Windows XP Service Pack 2**;
d..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
e.. Windows XP Starter Edition; Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Semantics, shemantics, it says what it says for a reason. Whatever the
reason, it is prudent to take it into account. This is not a court. We are
trying to help folks avoid problems and in this case it seems wiser to take
a conservative approach and advise that there may be a problem.

Please note the word is "can" and not "must"; "can" means it is possible
to
do it while "must" meant one have to do it as it is required..

The semantics is that it is possible to install sp3 on a system with sp1
or sp2;
the lines quoteded doesn't say that one MUST install with sp1 or sp2
already
installed. There is nothing that say installing onto "gold" cannot be
done
successfully.

Quite problable that it was instigated by lawyers to be deliberately vague
so m$ claim different interpretations.

["Followup-To:" header set to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general.]

From the Overview of Windows XP SP3 deployment section (in its entirety):

"Deploying Windows XP SP3
Windows XP SP3 will be available through Windows Update and the Microsoft
Download Center. The service
pack will also be available to Volume License customers, TechNet
subscribers, and MSDN® subscribers.
Through Windows Update, the download size varies, but it is typically 70
megabytes (MB), depending on the
computer's configuration. Through the Download Center, the download size
is
approximately 580 MB.
Fundamentally, deploying Windows XP SP3 works the same as deploying SP1
and
SP2 for Windows XP:
? SP3 is cumulative, so users can install SP3 on top of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2.
? Windows XP SP3 supports the same languages as Windows XP did in its
initial release.
? You can run the SP3 update package on any edition of Windows XP SP1 or
SP2. For example, you can
run the SP3 update package on a computer running the Windows XP Media
Center
Edition with SP1. The
exceptions are Embedded editions for XP.
? Tools and guidance for system administrators have not fundamentally
changed from Windows XP SP2.
For comprehensive information, visit the Deploy Windows XP Professional
and
Windows XP Service
Pack 2 Deployment Information sites on Microsoft TechNet.
? You can deploy SP3 using Microsoft Systems Management Server 2003,
Microsoft System Center
Configuration Manager 2007, or third-party solutions. The process has not
fundamentally changed.
Windows XP SP3 is for x86 editions of Windows XP only. The x64 editions
of
Windows XP were serviced by
Windows Server 2003 SP2. For additional information, go to Windows Server
2003 Service Pack 2."

Do you see anything that says that users can install SP3 on anything
before
SP1 or run the update package on anything before SP1?

Is there something wrong with YOUR reading comprehension, Frank?




Both of you must have learned reading comprehension from the USA public
school system.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Absolutely.

I totally agree. Microsoft is ambiguous at best in this document.
You can read it two ways and you can read in or out anything you want.
If I put my name on it, and since its so hard, I tell people to put in SP1
or 2, then 3. Only because of my previously quoted sentence in that
article. I hedge to the safe side.