T. Waters said:Wonder if you mean that activation will be denied under these
circumstances? How do you know this?
"Can vs May," or, "one thing I remember from the first grade."
Michael said:Last night I upgraded a customers machine with new motherboard, cpu, memory,
video card, netcard and soundcard. The only thing that was the same was the
HDD, dvd drive, tape backup and scsi card. I was having trouble with the
internet so I phoned MS to activate XP again. After it activated I asked him
what the limit is to hardware change before XP won't activate. He said that
XP oem has to always remain on the same PC to be activated. In return I
asked "what constitutes the same PC?". He kept going around in circles and
not answering my question and just stating that it has to always remain on
the same PC. He never gave me a definition of what "same PC" means. In the
end I asked if it was more of a policy than a technical limitation and he
said "thank you for calling microsoft to activate your software" and hung
up!
I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
and will activate ok. Is that true?
Leythos said:I just sent the following to my MS Partner contact at MS:
********
I have read the EULA, the OEM site documents, but as a MS Partner
company I can not get clarification on what constitutes a "Computer"
for the OEM licensing agreement. The agreement states that the OEM
license is tied to the first "Computer" that it is installed on, so
what single or group of components does MS strictly consider as the
"Computer". I have thought it was the motherboard, but the EULA
doesn't state that, others have suggested that it's the power cord.
Please provide a MS answer that clearly defines what constitutes a
"Computer" so that my customers can upgrade their computers without
violating their OEM licensing agreements.
*******
When I get a reply I will post it - they say it could be 24 hours for
a reply.
--
Not that I want to get into this again, but if you go into the OEM site
at MS, read around the documents,
it seemed very clear to me that the
OEM software is tied to the first computer it's installed on, and that
the computer, by MS's documents on the OEM site, indicate that the
Motherboard is the "computer".
When I, as a personal choice, choose OEM, I limit the scope of the
license to the motherboard.
I also said that it's up to each person to interpret what MS means until
the actually call MS and ask for clarification - which I don't expect
many to admit to doing.
Bruce said:According to the EULA, an OEM license may not be transferred from
one distinct PC to another PC. However, this most emphatically does
not prohibit one from repairing or upgrading the PC on which an OEM
license is installed.
Now, some people believe that the motherboard is the key
component that defines the "original computer," but the OEM EULA does
not make any such distinction. Others have said that one could
successfully argue that it's the PC's case that is the deciding
component, as that is where one is instructed to affix the OEM CoA
label w/Product Key. Again, the EULA does not specifically define
any single component as the computer. (Licensed Microsoft Systems
Builders, who are allowed to distribute
OEM licenses with computers they sell, are contractually obligated to
"define" the computer as the motherboard, but this
limitation/definition can't be applied to the end user until the EULA
is re-written.)
Microsoft has, to date, been very careful _not_ publicly to
define when an incrementally upgraded computer ceases to be the
original computer. The closest I've ever seen a Microsoft employee
come to this definition (in a public forum) is to tell the person
making the inquiry to consult the PC's manufacturer. As the OEM
license's support is
solely the responsibility of said manufacturer, they should determine
what sort of hardware changes to allow before the warranty and support
agreements are voided. To paraphrase: An incrementally upgraded
computer ceases to be the original computer, as pertains to the OEM
EULA, only when the *OEM* says it's a different computer. If you've
built the system yourself, and used a generic OEM CD, then _you_ are
the "OEM," and _you_ get to decide when you'll no longer support your
product.
That depends on the type of OEM installation CD provided. Major OEMs
frequently design the CDs so that the license *cannot* be installed on
other hardware. OEM Recovery/Restore CDs are the same. Further,
Microsoft has just tightened the activation policy in regards to OEM
licenses distributed by the major OEMs.
A generic OEM CD, however, will install on any compatible computer.
So, can an OEM license be moved to a completely different computer?
Yes, if CD isn't locked to a specific BIOS, if the second computer is
compatible, and if the license holder lacks the integrity to abide by
the terms of the EULA, to which he has already agreed to respect. (If
you have such a customer, insist that he pay in cash. You won't be
able to trust his checks or his credit.)
Actually, you can call MS and ask for Licensing information, not the
activation drones, MS proper and ask for a email/document explaining
licensing.
In the grand scheme of software licensing, it's up to you to determine
what is right/wrong and what you feel you can get away with. Some of us
are hard-line and purchase a OEM copy considering that additional MS
documents call the Motherboard the defining component,
while others look
at the EULA and say that the power cord could be the single defining
component. It's all in what you are comfortable with until you ASK MS
legal what they mean.
And different MS employees tell a different story about at what point
does upgrading components constitute a new and different computer.
Leythos you really should just give it up! The OP actually talked to a
MS employee and couldn't get a straight answer out of him. And why is
that? Because MS rather keep the FUD surrounding when upgrading a
computer turns it into another computer by defining it in the EULA. MS
KNOWS if pressed their POST EULA FUD is in no way enforceable.
Those of us that ain't MS partners and have absolutely no conflict of
interest when it comes to having business dealings with MS have never
agree, and most have never even seen the password protected web site of
FUD about the mobo is the computer and bill gates is god!
Bruce said:No, that's no "retreat." That's what the official policy, as stated
by Microsoft employees, has always been.
That's where you went wrong. MS cannot LATER clarify,
further restrict a license.
There is nothing a call to MS can tell you that isn't
already in the license as shipped.
I'm not suggesting it would be fair to upgrade the entire
system a piece and a time and think an OEM license is still
valid for it, BUT on the other hand neither the seller nor
buyer of the license can further redefine it later.
That's not "hard-line", that's ignorance.
If the license agreement that came with the product
specifies the motherboard, then it is (a) defining
component. It is improper and pointless to make any mention
at all of "additional MS documents". If those documents had
told you that you are bound to reformat your hard drive
every 7 days, would you do that too?
Leythos said:What part of "my personal" did you miss - Hell, I even stated your and
Alias's positions of being able to do anything you want.
I've not made a statement as to one or the other being fact in this
thread.
kony said:No, you quite specifically cannot do this.
It is not binding to add terms and not legal to try to
enfore them. Of all possible avenues, MS cannot supply you
with "Further" details about a license that weren't already
part of that license. If someone simply can't find their
EULA then they might be SOL.
That's not "hard-line", that's ignorance.
If the license agreement that came with the product
specifies the motherboard, then it is (a) defining
component. It is improper and pointless to make any mention
at all of "additional MS documents". If those documents had
told you that you are bound to reformat your hard drive
every 7 days, would you do that too?
No reasonable person will conclude the power cord is a
defining component, UNLESS the license was purchased with
that cord, if the EULA allows it.
It is NOT "what you are comfortable with until you ask MS
legal".
MS legal cannot add, subtract, or redefine a EULA after the
sale.
Leythos said:And I stated that he (actually anyone) could do what they want on a
personal level. I never stated that anyone has to follow anything.
You are remembering and making more out of it this time than I said -
I DID NOT TAKE SIDES OR A STANCE ON IT THIS TIME. I EVEN SUGGESTED IT
WAS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL.
Leythos said:So, if I were a registered OEM, having agreed to the OEM agreements,
you are saying that I should ignore the documents on the OEM site
that I've already read concerning the definitions of terms before I
sign my OEM agreement?
Dude, you missed my point, I never suggested that anyone was bound by
the clarification, only informed by it, not bound by it - come down
off the soap-box.
If you aren't bound by it, then you really isn't worth the toilet paper
I used to wipe my ass with today!
And neither my used toilet paper or you non-binding web page has any
place in this thread!
T. Waters said:Bruce your explanation of OEM support of Windows XP was very enlightening
You got to the actual point of limiting the OEM to the first machine.
So I
found it odd that you summed up that brilliant and rational explanation with
a simplistic statement as to the morals of a person who moves OEM XP to
another computer.
Are you devoutly
religious, by any chance?
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