XP OEM - Interesting conversation with MS employee

[Michael C]

Last night I upgraded a customers machine with new motherboard, cpu, memory,
video card, netcard and soundcard. The only thing that was the same was the
HDD, dvd drive, tape backup and scsi card. I was having trouble with the
internet so I phoned MS to activate XP again. After it activated I asked him
what the limit is to hardware change before XP won't activate. He said that
XP oem has to always remain on the same PC to be activated. In return I
asked "what constitutes the same PC?". He kept going around in circles and
not answering my question and just stating that it has to always remain on
the same PC. He never gave me a definition of what "same PC" means. In the
end I asked if it was more of a policy than a technical limitation and he
said "thank you for calling microsoft to activate your software" and hung
up!

I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
and will activate ok. Is that true?

 

[Alias]

Last night I upgraded a customers machine with new motherboard, cpu,
memory, video card, netcard and soundcard. The only thing that was the
same was the HDD, dvd drive, tape backup and scsi card. I was having
trouble with the internet so I phoned MS to activate XP again. After it
activated I asked him what the limit is to hardware change before XP won't
activate. He said that XP oem has to always remain on the same PC to be
activated. In return I asked "what constitutes the same PC?". He kept
going around in circles and not answering my question and just stating
that it has to always remain on the same PC. He never gave me a definition
of what "same PC" means. In the end I asked if it was more of a policy
than a technical limitation and he said "thank you for calling microsoft
to activate your software" and hung up!

I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
and will activate ok. Is that true?

Good guess.

See http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/ for more details.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Last night I upgraded a customers machine with new motherboard, cpu, memory,
video card, netcard and soundcard. The only thing that was the same was the
HDD, dvd drive, tape backup and scsi card. I was having trouble with the
internet so I phoned MS to activate XP again. After it activated I asked him
what the limit is to hardware change before XP won't activate. He said that
XP oem has to always remain on the same PC to be activated. In return I
asked "what constitutes the same PC?". He kept going around in circles and
not answering my question and just stating that it has to always remain on
the same PC. He never gave me a definition of what "same PC" means. In the
end I asked if it was more of a policy than a technical limitation and he
said "thank you for calling microsoft to activate your software" and hung
up!

I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
and will activate ok. Is that true?

You've asked/speculated two different things:

1) What are the rules
2) What can you get away with

One has little to do with the other, the other has a lot to do with the
one, you can read it as you want

 

[Woody]

<I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
and will activate ok. Is that true? >

from what Mike Brannigan , an MS employee and frequent poster , has been
saying of late is that it's up to the oem to determine when the original
machine is no longer the original machine . definately a major retreat from
earlier interpretations of the ms oem eula . MS seems to be intentionally
vague .

hey , i build my own computers . purchase oem vers of the operating system
in complete compliance therefor i am the one to determine when it is no
longer the original computer as far as i'm concerned .

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Q. "I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
and will activate ok. Is that true?"

A. Not if its an OEM version....only a "Retail Version".

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

Get Windows XP Service Pack 2 with Advanced Security Technologies:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxp/choose.mspx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Last night I upgraded a customers machine with new motherboard, cpu, memory,
| video card, netcard and soundcard. The only thing that was the same was the
| HDD, dvd drive, tape backup and scsi card. I was having trouble with the
| internet so I phoned MS to activate XP again. After it activated I asked him
| what the limit is to hardware change before XP won't activate. He said that
| XP oem has to always remain on the same PC to be activated. In return I
| asked "what constitutes the same PC?". He kept going around in circles and
| not answering my question and just stating that it has to always remain on
| the same PC. He never gave me a definition of what "same PC" means. In the
| end I asked if it was more of a policy than a technical limitation and he
| said "thank you for calling microsoft to activate your software" and hung
| up!
|
| I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new machine
| and will activate ok. Is that true?



---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0519-0, 05/09/2005
Tested on: 5/10/2005 6:36:44 PM
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http://www.avast.com

 

[Richard Urban]

Did he tell you that?

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Michael C]

You've asked/speculated two different things:

1) What are the rules
2) What can you get away with

One has little to do with the other, the other has a lot to do with the
one, you can read it as you want

That's exactly what I asked him. I asked "if it was more of a policy than a
technical limitation". I don't want to pirate XP but if a customer has
bought XP I'd like to know what I can do to their machine before a new copy
is required. If XP hadn't worked after their machine was upgraded it would
have been a problem and it would have been good for me to know before hand.
I probably should have found out earlier but there are so many things I
should have found out earlier and MS don't make it easy sometimes. Anyway,
it looks like I can do whatever I want to the machine and it will still
work, which is a good thing.

Michael

 

[Leythos]

That's exactly what I asked him. I asked "if it was more of a policy than a
technical limitation". I don't want to pirate XP but if a customer has
bought XP I'd like to know what I can do to their machine before a new copy
is required. If XP hadn't worked after their machine was upgraded it would
have been a problem and it would have been good for me to know before hand.
I probably should have found out earlier but there are so many things I
should have found out earlier and MS don't make it easy sometimes. Anyway,
it looks like I can do whatever I want to the machine and it will still
work, which is a good thing.

Actually, you can call MS and ask for Licensing information, not the
activation drones, MS proper and ask for a email/document explaining
licensing. Now, after I've said this, you are also going to get people
telling you that you can do what you want as MS has never taken any
personal user/installer to court over multiple installs against a single
key/license.

In the grand scheme of software licensing, it's up to you to determine
what is right/wrong and what you feel you can get away with. Some of us
are hard-line and purchase a OEM copy considering that additional MS
documents call the Motherboard the defining component, while others look
at the EULA and say that the power cord could be the single defining
component. It's all in what you are comfortable with until you ASK MS
legal what they mean.

 

[Woody]

<1) What are the rules
2) What can you get away with

One has little to do with the other, the other has a lot to do with the
one, you can read it as you want >

they both have a lot to do with each other !!!! how can anyone know wtf is
going on if even MS won't just spell it out one way or the other . and why
should we even be put in this position in the first place ? people keep
asking the question "<1) What are the rules ? " yet there never seems to be
a definative answer . yes we get sorta answers but they even seem to change
from day to day .

the latest from mike brannigan is that it's the oem that determines when the
original computer is no longer the original computer . so who built the
computer , who bought the oem os and who installed the os on that computer
determines the rules as far as i read it .

 

[T. Waters]

He said it by implication - He hung up!

Did he tell you that?

 

[T. Waters]

Wonder if you mean that activation will be denied under these circumstances?
How do you know this?
"Can vs May," or, "one thing I remember from the first grade."

 

[Leythos]

the latest from mike brannigan is that it's the oem that determines when the
original computer is no longer the original computer . so who built the
computer , who bought the oem os and who installed the os on that computer
determines the rules as far as i read it .

Not that I want to get into this again, but if you go into the OEM site
at MS, read around the documents, it seemed very clear to me that the
OEM software is tied to the first computer it's installed on, and that
the computer, by MS's documents on the OEM site, indicate that the
Motherboard is the "computer".

When I, as a personal choice, choose OEM, I limit the scope of the
license to the motherboard.

 

[T. Waters]

According to what a MS representative told Kerry Brown recently, the
restriction of OEM XP to the first machine it is installed on is for the
purpose of limiting an OEM's responsibility for support to the machine that
the OEM built. The idea was not to create an ephemeral version of Windows.
The idea was not to make more money, even though the results may have
deviated from the concept in some cases.
If an individual is their own OEM, it kind of begs the question of support,
doesn't it?
I am one of those who believe that honoring the spirit of a rule is more
sensible than blindly honoring the word of a rule. I have been known to cut
the label from a pillow!

 

[Alias]

(e-mail address removed) > says...

Not that I want to get into this again, but if you go into the OEM site
at MS, read around the documents, it seemed very clear to me that the
OEM software is tied to the first computer it's installed on, and that
the computer, by MS's documents on the OEM site, indicate that the
Motherboard is the "computer".

When I, as a personal choice, choose OEM, I limit the scope of the
license to the motherboard.

You are saying one cannot upgrade a computer if you have an OEM licence and
that by upgrading it, you lose the licence to use the software you bought
for this upgraded computer. Scam, no matter how you slice it.

Example. Last year I got a MoBo with an AGP 4x slot and it can only handle
266 RAM. I want an 8x slot and a motherboard that can handle 400 RAM and a
faster 400 processor to go with it. With your theory, I would have to buy
another copy of an OEM Windows XP to upgrade the same computer the first OEM
was installed on and I say that is a scam if true, it is designed to make
people buy software they already have and paid for. Now, I will buy the
motherboard and new RAM and if I have to call MS, I will only give them the
number, as is outlined in their FAQs and not feel like a thief or weasal but
as a person who merely upgraded his computer and didn't want to be forced to
buy something I already have again!

Please explain how all of this relates to piracy, be it for profit or
"casual". I am all ears.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

(e-mail address removed) > says...

You are saying one cannot upgrade a computer if you have an OEM licence and
that by upgrading it, you lose the licence to use the software you bought
for this upgraded computer. Scam, no matter how you slice it.

Example. Last year I got a MoBo with an AGP 4x slot and it can only handle
266 RAM. I want an 8x slot and a motherboard that can handle 400 RAM and a
faster 400 processor to go with it. With your theory, I would have to buy
another copy of an OEM Windows XP to upgrade the same computer the first OEM
was installed on and I say that is a scam if true, it is designed to make
people buy software they already have and paid for. Now, I will buy the
motherboard and new RAM and if I have to call MS, I will only give them the
number, as is outlined in their FAQs and not feel like a thief or weasal but
as a person who merely upgraded his computer and didn't want to be forced to
buy something I already have again!

Please explain how all of this relates to piracy, be it for profit or
"casual". I am all ears.

Alias

Alias, I'm not getting into a word game. I've said how I read the
details on the OEM site, the documents the provided on their site, and
how I choose to interpret what they said in those documents.

I also said that it's up to each person to interpret what MS means until
the actually call MS and ask for clarification - which I don't expect
many to admit to doing.

 

[kurttrail]

Last night I upgraded a customers machine with new motherboard, cpu,
memory, video card, netcard and soundcard. The only thing that was
the same was the HDD, dvd drive, tape backup and scsi card. I was
having trouble with the internet so I phoned MS to activate XP again.
After it activated I asked him what the limit is to hardware change
before XP won't activate. He said that XP oem has to always remain on
the same PC to be activated. In return I asked "what constitutes the
same PC?". He kept going around in circles and not answering my
question and just stating that it has to always remain on the same
PC. He never gave me a definition of what "same PC" means. In the end
I asked if it was more of a policy than a technical limitation and he
said "thank you for calling microsoft to activate your software" and
hung up!
I suspect that means that it can be installed on a completely new
machine and will activate ok. Is that true?

Yes, as long as you don't tell them that it is a totally different
computer, they can figure it out from the encrypted PA data, so they
will activate you.

Some MS employees CLAIM that changes the motherboard makes it a new
computer, so be careful about what you tell PA reps, as you might get
one that is of that opinion.

PA is a total waste of time, and if it weren't for the errors it throws
at people, it would be a complete farce!

http://www.microscum.com/mmpafaq/

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Bruce Chambers]

from what Mike Brannigan , an MS employee and frequent poster , has been
saying of late is that it's up to the oem to determine when the original
machine is no longer the original machine . definately a major retreat from
earlier interpretations of the ms oem eula .

No, that's no "retreat." That's what the official policy, as stated by
Microsoft employees, has always been.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH

 

[Leythos]

I just sent the following to my MS Partner contact at MS:

********
I have read the EULA, the OEM site documents, but as a MS Partner
company I can not get clarification on what constitutes a "Computer" for
the OEM licensing agreement. The agreement states that the OEM license
is tied to the first "Computer" that it is installed on, so what single
or group of components does MS strictly consider as the "Computer". I
have thought it was the motherboard, but the EULA doesn't state that,
others have suggested that it's the power cord.

Please provide a MS answer that clearly defines what constitutes a
"Computer" so that my customers can upgrade their computers without
violating their OEM licensing agreements.
*******

When I get a reply I will post it - they say it could be 24 hours for a
reply.

 

[kurttrail]

Actually, you can call MS and ask for Licensing information, not the
activation drones, MS proper and ask for a email/document explaining
licensing. Now, after I've said this, you are also going to get people
telling you that you can do what you want as MS has never taken any
personal user/installer to court over multiple installs against a
single key/license.

In the grand scheme of software licensing, it's up to you to determine
what is right/wrong and what you feel you can get away with. Some of
us are hard-line and purchase a OEM copy considering that additional
MS documents call the Motherboard the defining component, while
others look at the EULA and say that the power cord could be the
single defining component. It's all in what you are comfortable with
until you ASK MS legal what they mean.

LOL! The End User never agree to that post EULA password-protected
webpage that makes the unsubstantiated claim that the MOBO is the
defining component!

And different MS employees tell a different story about at what point
does upgrading components constitute a new and different computer.

Leythos you really should just give it up! The OP actually talked to a
MS employee and couldn't get a straight answer out of him. And why is
that? Because MS rather keep the FUD surrounding when upgrading a
computer turns it into another computer by defining it in the EULA. MS
KNOWS if pressed their POST EULA FUD is in no way enforceable.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

Not that I want to get into this again, but if you go into the OEM
site at MS,

You mean the password protected site!

read around the documents, it seemed very clear to me
that the OEM software is tied to the first computer it's installed
on, and that the computer, by MS's documents on the OEM site,
indicate that the Motherboard is the "computer".

Unfortunately NO END USER EVER AGREED TO THOSE TERMS!

You are totally full of sh*t! You can't get it through your thick skull
that the web page is NEVER agreed to!

When I, as a personal choice, choose OEM, I limit the scope of the
license to the motherboard.

Good for you, you little MSAss-licking toady!

Those of us that ain't MS partners and have absolutely no conflict of
interest when it comes to having business dealings with MS have never
agree, and most have never even seen the password protected web site of
FUD about the mobo is the computer and bill gates is god!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"