XP OEM - Interesting conversation with MS employee

[Bob I]

That's dumbing it down. But you didn't answer the question.




Any one person only has two Grandmas, so how is it that you have more
exposure than me?

How many would you have, if you were adopted?

 

[kony]

Why don't you rant about all the other vendors that do the EXACT SAME
THING?

1) Because their products weren't the topic of these
posts.... who says people don't rant about them?

2) There are so many variations of Windows licensing

3) The monopoly- customers are not choosing a product, only
to accept or reject the ONLY commerically developed solution
with full hardware and software support. Many governments
are now considering that this point alone makes the EULA
questionable.

 

[kony]

I was not addressing it's validity, and my reply had nothing to do with
it.

He said people could not read the EULA before purchasing the product or
opening the box, which is not true - it's on-line and you can request a
copy if you call MS.

.... and you don't see a problem with that.
There is a problem with that, but you ignore it. The online
EULA is fine if it's required prior to online purchase, but
is no substitute for a EULA at the time and place of
purchase since what is actually being purchased is only a
license.

There is a difference between being in INFORMED customer and an Ignorant
one, the choice is up to the customer as the information IS available
without purchase.

Yes, an informed customer is one who is able to read the
terms attached to the specific product, not going elsewhere
to guess if they apply to a specific product.

 

[kony]

The licensing of the software, the requirement for it, is, when a
packaged machine is purchased from a place like CompUSA, Gateway, etc...
included in the manual that ships with the boxes. There is also wording
on the CD in many cases.

Again, you/they can choose to be ignorant or not.

You are choosing to be ignorant and it's a bit ridiculous
that you keep trying to imply the customer is. On the
contrary, they choose to KNOW what the license is for that
specific product- not some license that has no guarantee of
applying to a product found elsewhere. Your oversimplified
concept of "ignorance" can't be applied to actual purchase
scenarios, but would have to apply to ALL of them to be a
workable solution. There can be no "grey areas" in whether
one knows the terms of a the specific product but there are.

 

[kony]

MS Didn't hide anything, you can get all the information even before you
purchase the OS/System.

--

No, you can't.
Be specific, show us this information that is _GUARANTEED_
in writing sufficient to hold up in court, that it applies
to some randomly-selected (as would occur when one comes
across a product) WIndows. The terms are not consistent
across all distributions of WIndows and therefore can not be
"gotten" and assumed to apply to a product which can't be
verified before purchase to have same (terms).

 

[Leythos]

No, you can't.
Be specific, show us this information that is _GUARANTEED_
in writing sufficient to hold up in court, that it applies
to some randomly-selected (as would occur when one comes
across a product) WIndows. The terms are not consistent
across all distributions of WIndows and therefore can not be
"gotten" and assumed to apply to a product which can't be
verified before purchase to have same (terms).

When did I mention anything about court - your statement was that people
purchased a computer/system with Windows without any means to read the
EULA before the purchase and that it made the return of Windows
impossible or highly unlikely for those that do not agree to the EULA.

Your statement is 100% false, the information IS available to those that
don't want to purchase blindly.

I don't give a sh!t about legal or not, only that your inflammatory
statement was false - the EULA is available BEFORE purchase to any
customer that chooses to be informed.

 

[kony]

When did I mention anything about court

If it doesn't hold up on court then your idea about EULA or
terms is pretty irrelevant, isn't it? What ARE customers
agreeing to then? NOTHING if it doesn't stand up to legal
definitions.

- your statement was that people
purchased a computer/system with Windows without any means to read the
EULA before the purchase and that it made the return of Windows
impossible or highly unlikely for those that do not agree to the EULA.

Not impossible, BUT any additional effort or expense is not
same thing as being able to reject it without any additional
burden, as is the case with any other agreement where terms
are disclosed at THAT time, not elsewhere, "maybe".

Your statement is 100% false, the information IS available to those that
don't want to purchase blindly.

Oh? Show me. Show us all where we can be GUARANTEED we'd
reading something that applies to any SPECIFIC
possible-to-purchase product.

I don't give a sh!t about legal or not, only that your inflammatory
statement was false - the EULA is available BEFORE purchase to any
customer that chooses to be informed.

No, it's not always and often not available. Even if you
can read "something" you are not guaranteed what you read
applies. When you purchase a license there must be some
fixation of terms at the time and point of entering into
that agreement, not beforehand via a 3rd party nor after the
sale.

 

[Leythos]

No, it's not always and often not available. Even if you
can read "something" you are not guaranteed what you read
applies.

You're hopeless.

 

[kurttrail]

When did I mention anything about court - your statement was that
people purchased a computer/system with Windows without any means to
read the EULA before the purchase and that it made the return of
Windows impossible or highly unlikely for those that do not agree to
the EULA.

Your statement is 100% false, the information IS available to those
that don't want to purchase blindly.

I don't give a sh!t about legal or not, only that your inflammatory
statement was false - the EULA is available BEFORE purchase to any
customer that chooses to be informed.

Yeah, like the Earth had available that it was going to be destroyed to
make way for a hyperspatial bypass in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

You're hopeless.

Said the Queen of the delusional!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kony]

You're hopeless.

That's ironic.