XP + Novell login + Limited user = BSOD

S

Steve N.

I've been seeing several brand new and fairly new XP Pro sp1 machines
randomly go into reboot loops after login to Novell 6.5 (using latest
Novell client) and workstation login as Limited user and once the
problem starts it is very consistent. These machines were previously
working fine with no new software or unnecesary updates installed.

After several cold starts I can finally get to the desktop in Safe Mode
as an administrator and turn off Automatically Restart under startup and
recovery. If I then login to Novell and as Limited user I get consistent
BSODs (sorry I don't have the exact error at hand but is something like
"KERNEL_APC_PENDING_DURING_EXIT") indicating a device or driver issue
and the hex numbers change with each subsequent BSOD.

If then I do a Workstation Only login with admin rights I can get a
normal startup but I get between 5 and 7 "Windows has recovered from a
serious error" messages. I choose to send each report and get taken to
the OCA site which for the first several errors reports that a device
driver is at fault (no details), the final two OCA pages report problems
with a graphics driver (no further details). I have checked with the
manufacturer (SiS) for driver updates, these appear to be current.

I then schedule a disk check, which finds and corrects "minor
inconsistencies" and about 30 "unused index entries" and everything is
normal no matter how I login.

I do appreciate the effort MS has put into XP crash recovery and the
OCA, but this is damned silly. It is obvious that the file system errors
are the cause of the problem, not a device or driver problem since I
have verified that CHKDSK /F fixes the condition. What is damned silly
about it is the fact that I have to spend about 30 minutes barging my
way into the OS to fix a minor problem that the OS and file system
SHOULD be able to correct on its own and the fact that the OCA reports
are misleading, innacurate and virtually useless.

Even in Win9x a scandisk would automatically execute after a crash and
restart, and I've NEVER seen this sort of problem with Win2K Pro either.

Sorry folks, but Windows XP is NOT "the most stable version of
Windows..." and still half-baked at best when it comes to issues such as
this. Additionally, we do NOT need Windows to automatically restart the
damned PC by default to "protect" the system when a problem occurs, we
need to be able to get into the OS and determine what is wrong. It chaps
my @ss to no end that I have to jump through these flaming hoops JUST to
be able to fix a simple file system problem.

Steve
 
M

Malke

Steve said:
I've been seeing several brand new and fairly new XP Pro sp1 machines
randomly go into reboot loops after login to Novell 6.5 (using latest
Novell client) and workstation login as Limited user and once the
problem starts it is very consistent. These machines were previously
working fine with no new software or unnecesary updates installed.

After several cold starts I can finally get to the desktop in Safe
Mode as an administrator and turn off Automatically Restart under
startup and recovery. If I then login to Novell and as Limited user I
get consistent BSODs (sorry I don't have the exact error at hand but
is something like "KERNEL_APC_PENDING_DURING_EXIT") indicating a
device or driver issue and the hex numbers change with each subsequent
BSOD.

If then I do a Workstation Only login with admin rights I can get a
normal startup but I get between 5 and 7 "Windows has recovered from a
serious error" messages.

(much snippage)

1. Did these workstations previously work correctly with Novell? If yes,
then something must have changed, either software or hardware. If they
did work at one time and no new software has been added, are all the
computers the same hardware bought at the same time? Have you done
tests on the drives and the RAM? Do the workstations behave properly on
all non-Novell applications?

2. What does Novell tech support say?

Malke
 
S

Steve N.

Malke said:
Steve N. wrote:




(much snippage)

Did you read before snipping? Some of the questions you ask below were
answered in what you snipped.
1. Did these workstations previously work correctly with Novell?
Yes.

If yes,
then something must have changed, either software or hardware.

Nothing was added or changed, niether software nor hardware. The only
thing that happened is they were properly shut down one day and booted
up the next day.
If they
did work at one time and no new software has been added, are all the
computers the same hardware bought at the same time?

Yes, they are all the same make model and puchased at the same time,
imaged to our specifications.
Have you done
tests on the drives and the RAM?

No need to, they are working fine now. I have other things to do and the
school needs to use them.
Do the workstations behave properly on
all non-Novell applications?

Yes, and they also work fine with the Novell client before the crash and
after CHKDSK fixed errors.
2. What does Novell tech support say?

There's no need to contact Novell, they ae working fine now as I've
said. The problem was not hardware or software but minor inconsistencies
in NTFS. It must be that otherwise they'd still have the problem, that
was the only thing found wrong, it was corrected and now there are no
problems.

My issue is not that I couldn't fix the problem but that it was
rediculously difficult to get into the OS to fix it due to the way XP is
by default, and that Windows and OCA site incorrectly diagnosed the
problem. It was NOT caused by device or driver or grahics driver,
otherwise the problem would persist. It WAS caused by file system errors
as evidenced by the fact that the problem no longer exists after
correcting them.

Thanks,
Steve
 
M

Malke

Steve said:
My issue is not that I couldn't fix the problem but that it was
rediculously difficult to get into the OS to fix it due to the way XP
is by default, and that Windows and OCA site incorrectly diagnosed the
problem. It was NOT caused by device or driver or grahics driver,
otherwise the problem would persist. It WAS caused by file system
errors as evidenced by the fact that the problem no longer exists
after correcting them.

Glad you got it sorted. If you are that unhappy with XP and the
difficulty in getting into the OS, check with Novell about changing to
SuSE to see if that will work better for you.

Malke
 
S

Steve Nielsen

Malke said:
Steve N. wrote:




Glad you got it sorted. If you are that unhappy with XP and the
difficulty in getting into the OS, check with Novell about changing to
SuSE to see if that will work better for you.

Malke

I don't think Linux (SuSE or otherwise) is a viable option here. We're
pretty well locked into a Windows environment. If I had the time I'd
push them all back to Win2K Pro.

It's not that I hate XP, it is just so very frustrating when things like
this occur. XP is just fine when it works.

I also suspect the factory imaging process on these new machnes might be
the cause of the file system errors. I've seen that when we've done
in-house imaging, too.

Thanks for your comments Malke.
Steve
 
M

Malke

Steve said:
I don't think Linux (SuSE or otherwise) is a viable option here. We're
pretty well locked into a Windows environment. If I had the time I'd
push them all back to Win2K Pro.

It's not that I hate XP, it is just so very frustrating when things
like this occur. XP is just fine when it works.

I also suspect the factory imaging process on these new machnes might
be the cause of the file system errors. I've seen that when we've done
in-house imaging, too.

Thanks for your comments Malke.
Steve

Yes, time is always an issue, isn't it? Especially when you need to take
everything down. I would still recommend looking into a Novell/SuSE
solution, maybe building yourself an experimental box to play with.
Depending on your setup, many Windows programs can be run from Linux
using CrossOver Office. Wine by itself is trickier. I agree that the
imaging can cause problems sometimes. We've seen it on our school's
machines also. I also agree that XP can be very fine, as can Win2k. One
way to look at it is that we should be grateful in a strange way for
the Golden Rule Of Computing:

There Is No Perfect Hardware; There Is No Perfect Software.

Without that truth, what would you and I do to make a living? ;-)

Cheers and have a nice week,

Malke
 

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