XP "genuine advantage" Big Brother nightmares

[Michael Jennings]

Honestly, I think that all the MVP's have a varying degree of knowledge.

Though, some are prone to just spitting forth the scritpted M$ BS that they
would like us to come to believe wholesale.

To get MVP it is necessary to sign an NDA, limiting what may be disclosed.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

My apologies if I said something that may have been misconstrued. At
no point did I make claim to anything in any EULA witnessed by me. I
merely conveyed what I was told by more than one Microsoft Licensing
Representatives. I am not a Microsoft employee, Lawyer, or paid
sponsor. I believe I said OEM Licensing told me that, not the EULA.

It might be a good idea to read what you agreed to.

I don't make the rule, nor judgement on how someone may percieve the
rules. I am merely pointing out my anecdotal experience, in an effort
to shed light on a suspect situation. If the gentleman above actually
DOES have a legitimate copy of windows, then Microsoft may and
probably will assist him in fixing his issue. If it's pirated, then
that's the reality he has to deal with.

But that's not really the issue.

The issue is:

As has been mentioned elsewhere a ton of people are getting alse
positives, and it is supremely annoying, but it's not the end of the
world. If the software is legitimate, then the user is free to pursue
the myriad paths to a valid solution.

Why should a legitimate user have to stand on his head because the
software doesn't work correctly.

And why should any of us have to prove to Microsoft daily (now
fortnightly) that our software is "genuine"?

And why the need for all the extra information that has nothing to do
with whether the software is "genuine"?

If the software is pirated,
then... well... it's pirated, and the trap set by Microsoft just
worked.

So if you know that one of 10 men is guilty, it's okay to shoot them
all?

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

 

[Alias]

To get MVP it is necessary to sign an NDA, limiting what may be disclosed.

That explains a lot.

Alias

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Michael Jennings wrote:

That explains a lot.

Actually, I don't think it really explains much at all.

Doesn't an Non-Disclosure Agreement cover only proprietary information?

I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work.

So the implication is that to continue to receive the award, MVPs need
to be on their Sunday-best behavior. It's toe the line or lose the
perks. I'm not sure I'd give up the ability to say what I think or to
use my own independently acquired knowledge merely for the dollar value
and arguable prestige of an MVP award.

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Actually, I don't think it really explains much at all.

Doesn't an Non-Disclosure Agreement cover only proprietary
information?
I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work.

You are correct. There are a few such things we can't talk about, but not
many.

So the implication is that to continue to receive the award, MVPs need
to be on their Sunday-best behavior. It's toe the line or lose the
perks.

Not at all true. Other than not revealing proprietary information, there is
no line to which MVPs are held. Nobody tells us what to say, and MVPs are
free to express their own opinion on anything. For example, I prefer
WordPerfect to Word and I say it in the newsgroups all the time.

I'm not sure I'd give up the ability to say what I think or to
use my own independently acquired knowledge

We don't.

merely for the dollar
value

There is no monetary remuneration, although there is some software given to
MVPs. If you were to add up the dollar value of what we get and compare to
the number of hours spent each year, we work for peanuts. I, like the rest
of the MVPs, do what we do because we like to help people, not for any
dollar value.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

You are correct. There are a few such things we can't talk about, but
not many.

Well, then that negates everything else I wrote.

Not at all true. Other than not revealing proprietary information,
there is no line to which MVPs are held. Nobody tells us what to say,
and MVPs are free to express their own opinion on anything. For
example, I prefer WordPerfect to Word and I say it in the newsgroups
all the time.

I would've snipped this, but I think it is a point well worth leaving
in.

We don't.

There is no monetary remuneration, although there is some software
given to MVPs. If you were to add up the dollar value of what we get
and compare to the number of hours spent each year, we work for
peanuts. I, like the rest of the MVPs, do what we do because we like
to help people, not for any dollar value.

It wasn't intended as an insult, although I suppose it came out that
way, and I sincerely apologize.

My point was that for what you guys get--and I am aware it's not money,
but services and software which have a tangible value--it's not worth
being gagged.

Mr. Jennings implied, however, that the reason none of the MVPs are
telling people how to turn off WGA is that they are not permitted to do
so because of an NDA, and it was to that I responded.

I know that some of you work very hard and give a lot of time to these
groups, and I would not intentionally demean that effort. (There are
others I wouldn't give a dime for, but that's another story.) Still and
all, it was a very disconcerting idea.

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

 

[Rick Rogers]

FWIW:

Not only are MVP's not "gagged", in fact they are a most vocal group - and
in particular about many of the same issues debated here and elsewhere.
Arguing them here serves little value, but making the point with the
decision makers sometimes helps. I've personally been a part of some rather
vitrolent sessions where many (over 700) MVP's told certain MS executives
exactly what stunk (and trust me, I'm being rather nice in my choice of
words).

As you surmised, the NDA is simply an agreement to not disclose certain
proprietary information disclosed to us. In no way should it be construed to
bind anyone accepting the award to not vocalize their personal opinions. I
certainly don't, nor do those that I associate with. MS only asks that those
in the progam act the same as would be expected of anyone asking for
assistance in a support group.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

FWIW:

Not only are MVP's not "gagged", in fact they are a most vocal group
- and in particular about many of the same issues debated here and
elsewhere. Arguing them here serves little value, but making the
point with the decision makers sometimes helps. I've personally been
a part of some rather vitrolent sessions where many (over 700) MVP's
told certain MS executives exactly what stunk (and trust me, I'm
being rather nice in my choice of words).

<laughing> If someone asked me to make a list of the non-gaggable, you
would be near the top, Mr. Rogers.

And I'm glad to know that even if many of you do not voice it here, you
are speaking up where it counts.

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

Mr. Jennings implied, however, that the reason none of the MVPs are
telling people how to turn off WGA is that they are not permitted
to do so because of an NDA, and it was to that I responded.

<snip>

Not only are MVPs allowed to express their opinions - many of us *have*
posted the ways to turn off the WGA several times.. or at least links to it.
It's not like that information is hidden at all.. I figure if it is able to
be found in a Google Search - it's fair game. If someone is not as adept as
I may have become at such searches - then sometimes I provide said link for
them.

I know I have - at least - posted a link several times in these newgroups
that has at least 15 different methods one can try to "counter" WGA.. The
link below:

http://www.mydigitallife.info/2006/...s-genuine-advantage-notifications-nag-screen/

So Mr. Jennings - if such a thing was implied - was blatantly incorrect and
a Google Groups search would show that.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I would've snipped this, but I think it is a point well worth leaving
in.




It wasn't intended as an insult, although I suppose it came out that
way, and I sincerely apologize.

No, no apology necessary. I didn't take it as an insult, but I just wanted
to clarify the situation.

My point was that for what you guys get--and I am aware it's not
money, but services and software which have a tangible value--it's
not worth being gagged.

Mr. Jennings implied, however, that the reason none of the MVPs are
telling people how to turn off WGA is that they are not permitted to
do so because of an NDA, and it was to that I responded.

MVPs are never not "not permitted" to do anything except to not reveal
confidential information that is privy to us as MVPs, and there's not a
whole lot of that. There is nothing that I have ever been explicitly told
can't be told to others, except an occasional piece of information that I
know a few days before official release and won't be released publicly for a
short while. In fact, there's very little I know that everyone doesn't know.
If you think Microsoft tells us a lot, you'd probably be very surprised at
how little it actually is.

As far as how to turn off WGA, I haven't posted any information about how to
turn it off simply because I don't know much about it. No MVP knows
everything, and we all have our areas of specialization. I personally
haven't run into problems with WGA, know little about it, and don't know how
to turn it off. And nobody at Microsoft has ever even suggested to me that I
be mute on this subject. And for the record, despite my not knowing a whole
lot about it, from what I do know, I'm far from crazy about the whole idea
of WGA.

I know that some of you work very hard and give a lot of time to these
groups, and I would not intentionally demean that effort.

Thank you. Such kind words are always appreciated.

 

[Michael Jennings]

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

<snip>

Not only are MVPs allowed to express their opinions - many of us *have*
posted the ways to turn off the WGA several times.. or at least links to it.
It's not like that information is hidden at all.. I figure if it is able to
be found in a Google Search - it's fair game. If someone is not as adept as
I may have become at such searches - then sometimes I provide said link for
them.

I know I have - at least - posted a link several times in these newgroups
that has at least 15 different methods one can try to "counter" WGA.. The
link below:

http://www.mydigitallife.info/2006/...s-genuine-advantage-notifications-nag-screen/

So Mr. Jennings - if such a thing was implied - was blatantly incorrect and
a Google Groups search would show that.

Thanks for the smidgen of doubt. Robin has been stating that KB905474
can not be uninstalled. That is a correct statement politically, but not factually.

Freudi has a small program to get rid of Notifications, aber selbst erstellten
Uninstaller KB905474-Uninstaller.exe requires trust if the bare download
link is posted, or a little German if the page with the link to it is posted:
http://patch-info.de/WinXP/2006/06/07/05-47-32.html

The problem is that KB905474 is kind of voluntary-mandatory, and since
some MVPs are speaking like propagandists, I'm not sure where the lines
are drawn with respect to advice to people who want to uninstall it.

I had problems answering the kids who wanted to know how to get rid
of the parental controls in IE, also - don't spill the beans vs. here's how.

 

[Michael Jennings]

<laughing> If someone asked me to make a list of the non-gaggable, you
would be near the top, Mr. Rogers.

And I'm glad to know that even if many of you do not voice it here, you
are speaking up where it counts.

Jennings is very suspicious and reads update EULAs before installing
strange updates. He regards Microsoft as having abused the trust users
placed in it. He likes to read Philip K. Dick. Be careful. Watch out.
If you don't think they're out to get you, you're living in a fantasy.

 

[Ottmar Freudenberger]

Freudi has a small program to get rid of Notifications,

FWIW, I'm *no* MVP.
And yes, you can simply unpack "my" KB905474-uninstaller.exe e.g.
using WinRAR and have a look into the batch files. It's not more
or lese than this.

But we may have to differentiate the WGA program as such and the
"famous" WGA Notification tool. The latter is the one not only I'm
critisizing, especially how that "tool" has been and is introduced
by MS. Forcing a "test" tool as an critical update is far, far away
from "trustworthy computing" - despite from the problems users have
in installing that (updated) tool (almost not be aware of what they
are really trying to install).

I really urge you and everyone else who feels to comment on the WGA
porgram as such and especially KB905474 to post into the WGA web
forums (http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/).

Bye,
Freudi

P.S.: Followup to microsoft.public.windowsupdate set. Followups to
this posting will show up in the Windows Update newsgroup only.

 

[DanS]

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:
<snip> <SNIP_II)

Not only are MVPs allowed to express their opinions - many of us
*have* posted the ways to turn off the WGA several times.. or at least
links to it. It's not like that information is hidden at all.. I
figure if it is able to be found in a Google Search - it's fair game.
If someone is not as adept as I may have become at such searches -
then sometimes I provide said link for them.

(I guess I'll chime in at this part of the thread for no real reason.)

That is a great attitude, as how it should be.

My original post in this thread.....

'....some are prone to just spitting forth the scritpted M$ BS that they
would like us to come to believe wholesale.'

So the biggest thing about the whole situation is NOT just the comment
from above.

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another, but a question was asked
about removing WGA and whatever MVP replied.....'It can not be removed.'

THAT, my friends, is the problem. It has been proven, talked about,
argued about, etc. (to death none the less), yet this one person STILL
replies with the M$ propaganda.

 

[Leythos]

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another, but a question was asked
about removing WGA and whatever MVP replied.....'It can not be removed.'

THAT, my friends, is the problem. It has been proven, talked about,
argued about, etc. (to death none the less), yet this one person STILL
replies with the M$ propaganda.

Are you talking about WGA or WGA Notifications?

 

[Alias]

Are you talking about WGA or WGA Notifications?

They're the same sh!t with a different smell.

Alias

 

[DanS]

Are you talking about WGA or WGA Notifications?

The whole deal, it doesn't matter.

My problem with WGA is not WGA itself. It was the way M$ deployed the
'WGA Notifications' portion that I don't agree with. M$ described WGA an
'Opt-In' program early-on. That should mean there's an easy 'Opt-Out'
option.

The M$ response to innocent people that did not know the XP version on
the PC they just bought, either second-hand, or from seemingly reliable
computer shops, who have no recourse when these places are no longer
around, is to pay M$ $100 for XP Home 'Genuine Advantage Kit' or $150 for
the Pro version. Hell, you can get lower prices from places online.

People that willingly have and use pirated versions of XP are not
bothered by these annoyances.

So what is WGA really doing ?

 

[Leythos]

The whole deal, it doesn't matter.

My problem with WGA is not WGA itself. It was the way M$ deployed the
'WGA Notifications' portion that I don't agree with. M$ described WGA an
'Opt-In' program early-on. That should mean there's an easy 'Opt-Out'
option.

The M$ response to innocent people that did not know the XP version on
the PC they just bought, either second-hand, or from seemingly reliable
computer shops, who have no recourse when these places are no longer
around, is to pay M$ $100 for XP Home 'Genuine Advantage Kit' or $150 for
the Pro version. Hell, you can get lower prices from places online.

People that willingly have and use pirated versions of XP are not
bothered by these annoyances.

So what is WGA really doing ?

But WGA doesn't do anything about Pirated copies, it's the Notification
service that seems to be the problem.

 

[DanS]

But WGA doesn't do anything about Pirated copies, it's the
Notification service that seems to be the problem.

Yes, and the people getting hit with notifications are the one's that were
un-aware of the status of their XP license.

 

[Tom Willett]

It's also doing false *positives* with legal people, just like WGA is doing.

Tom