XP and DSL?

K

KenK

I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

DSL replaces ISP?
Supplies email service?
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For XP
Home?
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Any other clues or hints? I'd do a Google search but my 20K dial-up
connection works very very slowly on web sites.

Ken
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

DSL replaces ISP?



No. They are two completely different things. DSL is a technology.
Your ISP is a company. If you get DSL from Centurylink, then
Centurylink will be your ISP.

Supplies email service?



Yes. At least in all the instances I've ever seen.


Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For XP
Home?


No software is required. What's needed is built into Windows.

Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?



I assume that that depends on who is providing the service. Ask
Centurylink.
 
R

RobertMacy

I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

DSL replaces ISP?
Supplies email service?
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For XP
Home?
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Any other clues or hints? I'd do a Google search but my 20K dial-up
connection works very very slowly on web sites.

Ken

I have basic Century Link here, and Direct TV satellite.

Glad you asked! I'm in a rural area north of Phoenix. Neighbors with DSL
would ask me [the resident electronic guru] "What speed should I get out
here? Because 300kbps seems a bit slow for DSL." Used to get constant
calls from Marketing at Century Link offering up to 7MBs DSL for
39.99/month. For a long time, even though they called, they couldn't even
supply DSL here! But now they can supply 'dribbling' DSL. So, I said,
great! How fast? they kept repeating, up to 7MBs. I said what if you don't
supply that? Same price but you can get up to this fantastic speed, but a
lot of people are happy with it. Knowing I'm 17,262 feet from their
office, I said, "Ok, you install it and I'll pay you proportionately based
upon the speed I get here." [between you and me, at that distance you
don't get a lot of DSL speed. that comes out to around $1.79/month] They
haven't called back since. Note they cheat slightly by using two phone
lines in parallel to get the speed backup a bit.

If it's any help every call to their service reaches a US citizen, not
always around here but in the US. They did give me the name and number of
a local repair technician [Phoenix Office] I can call and get very
'personalized' service from, albeit leaving meassage to call me back. But
they'll do phone line checks and supply me the data so I can log any
deterioration over time.
 
B

Bert

In KenK
I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

I've had US West/Qwest/CenturyLink DSL service for as long as they've
offered it. It's worked well, but if you have problems caused by failure
of their equipment, it's hard to get them to admit it's their problem.
DSL replaces ISP?
Supplies email service?

Unless you made other arrangements, yes. If you're getting ADSL2+ or
fiber service, then no other arrangements are available.

BUT! These are questions you should have asked before you signed up.

I hope you get something in writing from them with a username, email
address, default password and the like that you'll need in order to use
your service.
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For
XP Home?

That's built in to XP. You'll probably get setup info with the modem,
possibly on a CD.
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Maybe.
 
P

Paul

RobertMacy said:
I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

DSL replaces ISP?
Supplies email service?
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For XP
Home?
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Any other clues or hints? I'd do a Google search but my 20K dial-up
connection works very very slowly on web sites.

Ken

I have basic Century Link here, and Direct TV satellite.

Glad you asked! I'm in a rural area north of Phoenix. Neighbors with DSL
would ask me [the resident electronic guru] "What speed should I get out
here? Because 300kbps seems a bit slow for DSL." Used to get constant
calls from Marketing at Century Link offering up to 7MBs DSL for
39.99/month. For a long time, even though they called, they couldn't
even supply DSL here! But now they can supply 'dribbling' DSL. So, I
said, great! How fast? they kept repeating, up to 7MBs. I said what if
you don't supply that? Same price but you can get up to this fantastic
speed, but a lot of people are happy with it. Knowing I'm 17,262 feet
from their office, I said, "Ok, you install it and I'll pay you
proportionately based upon the speed I get here." [between you and me,
at that distance you don't get a lot of DSL speed. that comes out to
around $1.79/month] They haven't called back since. Note they cheat
slightly by using two phone lines in parallel to get the speed backup a
bit.

If it's any help every call to their service reaches a US citizen, not
always around here but in the US. They did give me the name and number
of a local repair technician [Phoenix Office] I can call and get very
'personalized' service from, albeit leaving meassage to call me back.
But they'll do phone line checks and supply me the data so I can log any
deterioration over time.

There is a distance versus speed graph on the bottom of this page.
The horizontal axis is in meters. At 5500 meters (~18000 feet), the
powder blue curve has dropped to zero. There are USA ADSL providers
offering 18000 foot and 36000 foot distribution plans, but the
36000 foot option can't really do all that much better. I don't
think they "over-promise" quite as much, if using 36000 feet.

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/adsl_broadband/easy_broadband/performance/

That set of curves corresponds to the "old way" to deliver ADSL. A large
central office, with POTS telephone lines snaking out in bundles, to
individual neighborhoods. That's how they originally delivered my
ADSL.
twisted pair ADSL modem
Central_Office ---------------------------------------- Your_house
copper line

In urban areas, they now use concentrators. That is a powered box with
electronics in it. It delivers ADSL with the starting distance measured
from the box on the corner of your street. Mine is maybe 500 feet of wire
from the box. It "buffers" the signal, so no danger of hitting an 18000
foot limit. The fiber distance doesn't count, as single mode fiber can
go quite long distances (for a price).

fiber twisted pair ADSL modem
Central_Office ------------ concentrator ------------------ My_house
(has a cooling (500 feet)
fan that runs
all the time)

In rural areas, especially areas that were slow to ever get ADSL, such
a distribution scheme is not very practical. For example, our box uses a
pre-existing fiber optic cable already in the ground. Fiber was buried in
the ground here, as part of a field trial. Su they didn't even need to
trench back to the CO, to put in my concentrator-type box. They put that
trench in years ago, while doing some other maintenance.

So the "Crapitude" of the "up to 7Mbit/sec but only delivers 0.3Mbit/sec"
style of service, would be more common in a rural setting.

Because I get my ADSL from a reseller here, the telephone company
that owns the physical facility, keeps my rate turned down :-(
When there is absolutely no need of doing that.

Paul
 
P

Paul

KenK said:
I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

DSL replaces ISP?
Supplies email service?
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For XP
Home?
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Any other clues or hints? I'd do a Google search but my 20K dial-up
connection works very very slowly on web sites.

Ken

Dialup equipment would look like this. This would be your current setup.

Central_Office ----------------------------- dialup modem --- (PPP protocol
twisted pair copper (internal or already in
external) WinXP)

*******

With ADSL, there are a couple possibilities. For a single computer
usage, you can hook up direct to a cheap modem. No router at all
in this picture. They don't really make modems any more that don't
have a router, but this is what my very first ADSL setup looked like.

Ethernet
Central_Office ------------- ADSL modem ------------ (PPPOE protocol
twisted already in
pair WinXP)
copper

You can use ADSL modem alone, ADSL modem plus external router box,
or combo ADSL modem/router box (most common offering today). That
gives more than one Ethernet connector on the box, or provides
Wifi, so no cable has to run to the computer. To use a Wifi router,
you'd need a Wifi receiver on the computer end. But we'll just
draw an Ethernet cable picture first.

Eth Eth
Central_Office -------- ADSL modem ----- router ------- No special
twisted (terminates software at all
pair PPPOE in the for the OS
copper router) (WinXP computer)

When you use a Wifi router, the last hop uses radio waves.
The Wifi router has its own antenna. An older computer,
would need a Wifi card added to it, to be wireless.
You can even get add-on Wifi in the form of a USB dongle.

+ +
Eth /\/ \/\
Central_Office -------- ADSL modem ----- router Wifi driver
twisted (terminates (WinXP computer)
pair PPPOE in the
copper router)

So those are some possibilities for your hookup. Generally,
they include enough stuff (a short Ethernet cable with
the ADSL modem), you should be ready to do a test
when the service is turned up. Mine took *three weeks*
to install, in grand incompetent telco style... Nobody
knew what was going on, I got the run-around. I finally
found an employee who knew the right person to call,
and it was working the next day. That guy is no longer
at the mall (we can't have responsive customer service
after all, better to have someone in India do that).

At the phone company, the data fill is typically
updated at midnight. That is to make billing precise,
a "precise number of days of service". So the
service should start, just after midnight. YMMV
of course. Because humans are involved.

You can have both dialup and ADSL on the same line.
For example, if you continued to pay for dialup service,
the ADSL stopped working at some point in time, you
could use the dialup modem. For a year, I had an
overlap between Freenet and ADSL. When the ADSL went
off (and it did), I could dialup using Freenet and
check the ADSL provider web page. That was easier
than sitting on hold on the phone for 45 minutes,
to get a human to tell me it was broken. I never
attempted any tests, such as running dialup on
one computer, ADSL to a second computer, to see if
they could actually co-exist at the same time.
But if the ADSL went off, for as long as I had
Freenet, I could check the web page. The reason
I no longer have Freenet, is Freenet isn't really
free :)

Paul
 
K

KenK

Paul said:
Dialup equipment would look like this. This would be your current
setup.

Central_Office ----------------------------- dialup modem --- (PPP
protocol
twisted pair copper (internal or
already in
external)
WinXP)

*******

With ADSL, there are a couple possibilities. For a single computer
usage, you can hook up direct to a cheap modem. No router at all
in this picture. They don't really make modems any more that don't
have a router, but this is what my very first ADSL setup looked like.

Ethernet
Central_Office ------------- ADSL modem ------------ (PPPOE
protocol
twisted already in
pair WinXP)
copper

You can use ADSL modem alone, ADSL modem plus external router box,
or combo ADSL modem/router box (most common offering today). That
gives more than one Ethernet connector on the box, or provides
Wifi, so no cable has to run to the computer. To use a Wifi router,
you'd need a Wifi receiver on the computer end. But we'll just
draw an Ethernet cable picture first.

Eth Eth
Central_Office -------- ADSL modem ----- router ------- No special
twisted (terminates software
at all pair PPPOE in the for
the OS copper router)
(WinXP computer)

When you use a Wifi router, the last hop uses radio waves.
The Wifi router has its own antenna. An older computer,
would need a Wifi card added to it, to be wireless.
You can even get add-on Wifi in the form of a USB dongle.

+ +
Eth /\/ \/\
Central_Office -------- ADSL modem ----- router Wifi
driver
twisted (terminates (WinXP
computer) pair PPPOE in the
copper router)

So those are some possibilities for your hookup. Generally,
they include enough stuff (a short Ethernet cable with
the ADSL modem), you should be ready to do a test
when the service is turned up. Mine took *three weeks*
to install, in grand incompetent telco style... Nobody
knew what was going on, I got the run-around. I finally
found an employee who knew the right person to call,
and it was working the next day. That guy is no longer
at the mall (we can't have responsive customer service
after all, better to have someone in India do that).

At the phone company, the data fill is typically
updated at midnight. That is to make billing precise,
a "precise number of days of service". So the
service should start, just after midnight. YMMV
of course. Because humans are involved.

You can have both dialup and ADSL on the same line.
For example, if you continued to pay for dialup service,
the ADSL stopped working at some point in time, you
could use the dialup modem. For a year, I had an
overlap between Freenet and ADSL. When the ADSL went
off (and it did), I could dialup using Freenet and
check the ADSL provider web page. That was easier
than sitting on hold on the phone for 45 minutes,
to get a human to tell me it was broken. I never
attempted any tests, such as running dialup on
one computer, ADSL to a second computer, to see if
they could actually co-exist at the same time.
But if the ADSL went off, for as long as I had
Freenet, I could check the web page. The reason
I no longer have Freenet, is Freenet isn't really
free :)

Paul

Thank you very much. Extremely informative, as usual!
 
P

Paul

I still pay for AOL with a dial up number and I have DSL from Century
Link. I used the dial up 2 or 3 times in the 8 years I have had DSL.
The DSL is very solid. Comcast was down at least once a week and after
a storm it might be out for a couple weeks.
My DSL is supposed to be "up to 10 meg" but the best I see is 3 meg on
the speed test sites at DSL reports.
They just sent me another Email promising the 10 meg again at the end
of the month. I am many miles from any central office but I think the
DSL actually comes from a big box at the end of my street.
These days a "central office" would fit in a van.
30 years ago the Naples CO went from 2 floors of clicky, clacky with a
half dozen frame hops running around to a guy sitting at a console
and a row of racks in the corner of one of those floors. That
equipment only got smaller since then.

So are you ready for this switch from 3 to 10 ?
Maybe you'll need an ADSL2+ modem ?

Paul
 
P

Paul

I think that is what triggered the Email. I replaced my (bad) modem
the other day with a direct replacement for the one they gave me when
they first started talking about 10 meg. I assume I have had an ADSL 2
modem for a while. They just can't push that much data down the wire.
The only reason I even took it seriously is Century Link and telecom
contractor trucks have been on my street all week. They seem to be
reworking the big silver box and all the tombstones along the right of
way. I guess I could stop and ask what they are doing.

I associate that here, with people who have IPTV bundles.
We have ADSL and VDSL offerings, and I think for the VDSL (50Mbit)
there is a box installed in the garage. So you don't
get to choose your own modem in that case. They reworked the lines,
did some line evaluation over a three day period here, last year.

One reason for using a reseller here, is the bandwidth
cap is 300GB/month, whereas the telephone company plan for
the same tier is 40GB/month. And even though I'm not
really a big downloader, I don't want to be "looking over
my shoulder". There's no way I'd hit 300.

Paul
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

KenK said:
I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

Paul's comprehensive answers supersede this, but here's my take! (The
default here in UK - at least, for service supplied still via an old
telephone line, i. e. they don't change anything in your house - is
ADSL; when a USian talks about DSL, I'm not sure if they mean ADSL.)
DSL replaces ISP?

DSL is how they deliver and collect the bytes; ISP is the company you're
dealing with.
Supplies email service?

That's independent of the delivery method: you send email via an SMTP
server, and collect it via a POP (sometimes called POP3) or IMAP server.
These two servers are computers at your ISP; how you connect to them
doesn't necessarily change when you change from dialup to DSL. If you're
changing ISP at the same time (have you been told your email address
will change, for example?), then the servers you use will change and
have to be changed in your email prog. (such as Outlook Express or
Thunderbird); it is _possible_ that other things might have to change
too (such as if they only offer IMAP and you've been used to using POP),
but probably not.

(I _said_ the send and receive email servers are at your ISP, because
that's how most people do it; _some_ people, especially those who
maintain a website/domain, often do things differently - i. e. the ISP
provides them with the connection only, and they use mail servers - and
other things - at other companies. I doubt this will apply to you.)

(Note that you may have to reconfigure newsgroup access too: you seem to
be using Xnews as your news software. Once again, news access is a
separate matter from the connection method used to access it. However,
in UK at least, many ISPs _don't_ provide news access as part of the
service, unlike mail access, so you may have to change who you get that
from. There are good free news suppliers [which is what I use for many
newsgroups] and excellent cheap ones [one is 10 euros a year for
example, IIRR].)
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For XP
Home?

You will need a - piece of hardware - MoDem to connect to the DSL, much
as you do with dialup. For dialup, the MoDem may already be built into
your PC (desktop or laptop): it's where the 'phone line plugs in. For
DSL, it's likely to be an external box: I'm unaware of any DSL MoDem
that's available as a PC card (let alone built into any laptop), though
I'm not saying such don't exist. Often, these days - in fact almost
always - the box will also contain a wifi router, which means you can
connect your computer to the box wirelessly: virtually all laptops these
days include wifi, though most desktops don't. (You can get wifi dongles
from a couple of bucks upwards, that plug into a spare USB port. IME,
unless you're going to be given a huge speed or your computer is a long
way from where you're going to put the router, there's no point in
paying more than you have to for this bit.) If the MoDem doesn't have
wifi (or your computer doesn't and you don't want to add it), you'll
have to connect to it by an ethernet cable: it will have a suitable
socket, and hopefully so will your computer. (If you're going this
route, make sure you have a cable! If unsure whether your computer has
wifi, look in Start | Settings | Network connections; you should see
your dialup connection, "Local Area Connection" if your computer has an
ethernet port, and "Wireless Network Connection" if you have that. Along
from Local Area Connection, it will probably say "Network cable
unplugged" [it does here as I use wifi].)

The _software_ part of the connection is already part of XP, much as it
was/is with your dialup connection. You'll just plug in the DSL box, and
magically you'll have an internet connection. (Well, if wifi is
involved, you'll have to set that up. Try _not_ to load any software
that comes with the kit, unless you're adding a wifi adapter _and_ the
computer says it can't find a driver.)

You'll also - unless "DSL" _is_ different from ADSL - need some
"microfilters"; these are little boxes that plug into your telephone
sockets and have two sockets on the back, one for any telephone
equipment and one for any DSL MoDem. They stop the telephone equipment
and the DSL equipment interfering with each others' operation: if you
leave any telephone equipment (ordinary telephone, answerphone, dialup
MoDem) connected to the line in parallel with the DSL MoDem, it _may_
not work (as well, or at all, or it might not make any difference). If
the company providing your DSL service - Centurylink - is also supplying
the MoDem, they may well include a microfilter or two in the box.
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Centurylink may or may not offer that provision; they should have told
you, anyway. I take it you _don't_ get your current dialup service from
them.
Any other clues or hints? I'd do a Google search but my 20K dial-up
connection works very very slowly on web sites.

Yes, modern web designers don't cater for it )-:. (Also, if you're only
getting 20K rather than something closer to 33K/56K [up/down], I'm
guessing your line is ropy and/or a long way from the exchange, so -
unless they're replacing parts of it at the same time - don't expect
lightning speed even after changeover: you should get a meg or two,
though, at least. Have they promised any particular speed?)
Do come back and tell us how you get on!
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>,
The standard package from Century Link comes with 2 filters for
phones. They will give you as many as you like but usually you will
not need any if they come out and do an on site install because they
will put in a filtered Dmark and a dedicated DSL line to your modem.
Ah, a dedicated install isn't the norm in the UK. Here, for someone
switching from dialup to broadband, the arrangement is usually you sign
up with a broadband provider ISP, who pay British Telecom worldwide to
flick the necessary switch at the exchange, and (the provider) usually
offer to send you the MoDem (these days usually a wireless one) "free"
(you "pay postage"), usually with, as you say, a couple of filters. And
the customer sets up the system him/herself. That's usually simple
enough because most households have a "master socket" where the line
enters the premises, with all other extensions being plugged into that,
and they usually recommend the MoDem be plugged in (via one of the
filters, along with a 'phone or the lead to the rest of the house in its
other hole) to the master socket "for best performance", with the other
filter for fitting to another 'phone (with its ADSL hole unfilled).

Engineer visits to the home (or even small business) are rare here.
(Discouraged by them imposing a ridiculously large fee, in the event of
you reporting a fault and them visiting and finding it's your side of
the master socket.)
 
K

KenK

KenK said:
I signed up for Centurylink DSL yesterday. I'll get it by 9/26.

If anyone here uses DSL, especially Centurylink's, how does this work?

Paul's comprehensive answers supersede this, but here's my take! (The
default here in UK - at least, for service supplied still via an old
telephone line, i. e. they don't change anything in your house - is
ADSL; when a USian talks about DSL, I'm not sure if they mean ADSL.)
DSL replaces ISP?

DSL is how they deliver and collect the bytes; ISP is the company
you're dealing with.
Supplies email service?

That's independent of the delivery method: you send email via an SMTP
server, and collect it via a POP (sometimes called POP3) or IMAP
server. These two servers are computers at your ISP; how you connect
to them doesn't necessarily change when you change from dialup to DSL.
If you're changing ISP at the same time (have you been told your email
address will change, for example?), then the servers you use will
change and have to be changed in your email prog. (such as Outlook
Express or Thunderbird); it is _possible_ that other things might have
to change too (such as if they only offer IMAP and you've been used to
using POP), but probably not.

(I _said_ the send and receive email servers are at your ISP, because
that's how most people do it; _some_ people, especially those who
maintain a website/domain, often do things differently - i. e. the ISP
provides them with the connection only, and they use mail servers -
and other things - at other companies. I doubt this will apply to
you.)

(Note that you may have to reconfigure newsgroup access too: you seem
to be using Xnews as your news software. Once again, news access is a
separate matter from the connection method used to access it. However,
in UK at least, many ISPs _don't_ provide news access as part of the
service, unlike mail access, so you may have to change who you get
that from. There are good free news suppliers [which is what I use for
many newsgroups] and excellent cheap ones [one is 10 euros a year for
example, IIRR].)
Supplies software to replace dial-up connection internet module? For
XP Home?

You will need a - piece of hardware - MoDem to connect to the DSL,
much as you do with dialup. For dialup, the MoDem may already be built
into your PC (desktop or laptop): it's where the 'phone line plugs in.
For DSL, it's likely to be an external box: I'm unaware of any DSL
MoDem that's available as a PC card (let alone built into any laptop),
though I'm not saying such don't exist. Often, these days - in fact
almost always - the box will also contain a wifi router, which means
you can connect your computer to the box wirelessly: virtually all
laptops these days include wifi, though most desktops don't. (You can
get wifi dongles from a couple of bucks upwards, that plug into a
spare USB port. IME, unless you're going to be given a huge speed or
your computer is a long way from where you're going to put the router,
there's no point in paying more than you have to for this bit.) If the
MoDem doesn't have wifi (or your computer doesn't and you don't want
to add it), you'll have to connect to it by an ethernet cable: it will
have a suitable socket, and hopefully so will your computer. (If
you're going this route, make sure you have a cable! If unsure whether
your computer has wifi, look in Start | Settings | Network
connections; you should see your dialup connection, "Local Area
Connection" if your computer has an ethernet port, and "Wireless
Network Connection" if you have that. Along from Local Area
Connection, it will probably say "Network cable unplugged" [it does
here as I use wifi].)

The _software_ part of the connection is already part of XP, much as
it was/is with your dialup connection. You'll just plug in the DSL
box, and magically you'll have an internet connection. (Well, if wifi
is involved, you'll have to set that up. Try _not_ to load any
software that comes with the kit, unless you're adding a wifi adapter
_and_ the computer says it can't find a driver.)

You'll also - unless "DSL" _is_ different from ADSL - need some
"microfilters"; these are little boxes that plug into your telephone
sockets and have two sockets on the back, one for any telephone
equipment and one for any DSL MoDem. They stop the telephone equipment
and the DSL equipment interfering with each others' operation: if you
leave any telephone equipment (ordinary telephone, answerphone, dialup
MoDem) connected to the line in parallel with the DSL MoDem, it _may_
not work (as well, or at all, or it might not make any difference). If
the company providing your DSL service - Centurylink - is also
supplying the MoDem, they may well include a microfilter or two in the
box.
Supplies dial-up service if DSL service down?

Centurylink may or may not offer that provision; they should have told
you, anyway. I take it you _don't_ get your current dialup service
from them.
Any other clues or hints? I'd do a Google search but my 20K dial-up
connection works very very slowly on web sites.

Yes, modern web designers don't cater for it )-:. (Also, if you're
only getting 20K rather than something closer to 33K/56K [up/down],
I'm guessing your line is ropy and/or a long way from the exchange, so
- unless they're replacing parts of it at the same time - don't expect
lightning speed even after changeover: you should get a meg or two,
though, at least. Have they promised any particular speed?)

No such promises. Up until a week ago I was getting 40K+. The ISP (no
relation to CenturyLink) says I need my phone line checked. I did that a
few months ago, got a new line, and got 40K+ back again until now. I can
see having to do this every few months so decided to go from DUN to DSL.
I don't understand why; for some 30 years I got 40K+ with no problem and
no line changes. Evidently the lines have deteriorated recently.

I believe the DSL comes over different lines than my regular phone
service. I couldn't get DSL out here at my rural residence until a few
months ago. I've seem trucks every day out in the country putting up
CenturyLink phone (DSL?) lines for years now, recently close to my home.

I won't comment on the rest of your post - I need to reread it a few
times later.
 
P

Paul

KenK said:
No such promises. Up until a week ago I was getting 40K+. The ISP (no
relation to CenturyLink) says I need my phone line checked. I did that a
few months ago, got a new line, and got 40K+ back again until now. I can
see having to do this every few months so decided to go from DUN to DSL.
I don't understand why; for some 30 years I got 40K+ with no problem and
no line changes. Evidently the lines have deteriorated recently.

I believe the DSL comes over different lines than my regular phone
service. I couldn't get DSL out here at my rural residence until a few
months ago. I've seem trucks every day out in the country putting up
CenturyLink phone (DSL?) lines for years now, recently close to my home.

I won't comment on the rest of your post - I need to reread it a few
times later.

You would be surprised what carries your ADSL signal.

There are only so many spare pairs in the bundle, for
them to "trade".

And they never ever want to run new copper. They
will do whatever it takes to avoid that.

If you're having line troubles due to a poorly maintained
physical plant, I would expect similar problems with
ADSL. Your ADSL modem will have a "sync" light, which
will tell you when things are severely degraded.

When I see the punch-down blocks here, with the doors open,
the wiring exposed to wind, rain and sun, I think to myself
how exceptionally well those "gas tight" connections work.
And what a miracle it is, that any POTS phone service is working...

Paul
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

KenK said:
No such promises. Up until a week ago I was getting 40K+. The ISP (no
relation to CenturyLink) says I need my phone line checked. I did that a
few months ago, got a new line, and got 40K+ back again until now. I can
see having to do this every few months so decided to go from DUN to DSL.
I don't understand why; for some 30 years I got 40K+ with no problem and
no line changes. Evidently the lines have deteriorated recently.

I believe the DSL comes over different lines than my regular phone
service. I couldn't get DSL out here at my rural residence until a few
months ago. I've seem trucks every day out in the country putting up
CenturyLink phone (DSL?) lines for years now, recently close to my home.

It could be that the trunked part comes differently, but unless they're
actually coming into your home to install something, the last link will
be coming over the same copper wires. (Though I think you said they
_will_ come in, so maybe you _are_ getting new lines.)
I won't comment on the rest of your post - I need to reread it a few
times later.
[]
OK - I do tend to go on a bit (-:!
But still do.
3
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They don't seem to want to blind me with science nor to impress me with their
superior intellect, but just to share their enthusiasm for their subject.
(Appreciative) contributor to Radio Times letters page, 26 July-1 August 2014
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>,
These days, with all of the people dropping POTS, there is plenty of
spare copper in the ground.

That varies a lot by region (and probably nation). Here in rural UK,
though many would _like_ to drop POTS, if they want broadband - unless
they're willing to use mobile for that too, and it's more expensive,
slower, and less reliable (if it's even _available_ where they are) -
they have no choice but to keep a landline to get their broadband over.
In fact it's the other way in some places: if someone wanted a new
telephone line, they often DACSed it (multiplexing two lines onto one
bit of copper) rather than laying new copper, and then when subsequently
one of them wanted broadband (or someone else in the bundle did), they
had to do a lot of rearranging (because BB won't work over a DACSed
line). So there certainly isn't lots of spare copper in some places.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They don't seem to want to blind me with science nor to impress me with their
superior intellect, but just to share their enthusiasm for their subject.
(Appreciative) contributor to Radio Times letters page, 26 July-1 August 2014
 
M

micky

Unless you made other arrangements, yes. If you're getting ADSL2+ or
fiber service, then no other arrangements are available.

BUT! These are questions you should have asked before you signed up.

Not so much if it's his only alternative, and I have the feeling it is.
 
M

micky

Paul's comprehensive answers supersede this, but here's my take! (The
default here in UK - at least, for service supplied still via an old
telephone line, i. e. they don't change anything in your house - is
ADSL; when a USian talks about DSL, I'm not sure if they mean ADSL.)

Sure we do. I think ADSL stands for American DSL.

Okay, just kidding. I think we mean ADSL also.
.....
I have Verizon DSL and I don't think that includes dial-up when DSL is
down.I thought about that a lot at first.

But A) I'd rather wait until DSL is back up than use dial-up.
You'll feel that way too soon.
B) I'd rather go to the public library and use their
computers than use dial-up.
C) I'd rather impose on a friend than use dial-up.
D) Or even a non-friend. Once when visiting my brother
out of town, I needed to print my boarding pass at home, but he didn't
seem to have a printer, so I went next door and imposed on a stranger.
It probably made him feel good. When I got to the airport, I found out
they had terminals there with no lines, but I might have needed it to
check my suitcase at the curb.
E) The DSL has only been down afaik for 4 to 8 hours
in the 5 years I've had it. It may have been down at times I wasn't
trying to use it, but also some of the time I thought it was down, it
might have been up and only needed me to turn the modem on and off, or
to restart windows, (or possibly just restart less than all of windows?)

It has seemed to go down for a couple minutes many times -- I get a
message in a bubble in the bottom right area of the screen that says
"Cable disconnected". Then a little later without my doing anything, I
get a bubble that says "Cable connected".and that can happen several
times in an hour. But that might be my fault, not sure how. I don't
expect you'll have that

I have a wireless router, and used to use it for a web radio (a separate
device) and I use it for my netbook, but for the desktop computer, I
have it wired, even though the router is still on the second floor and
the computer in the basement. I have a 100' cable, from monoprice.com .

It almost always happens when I first start Windows that I get the
bubble that says "cable disconnected" but for most of these years, that
would go away and not recur until I started windows again. But for a
while, 3 to 6 months?, it was going on and off in the middle of a
session. That hasn't happened for a while, 3 months?

Among other ways to connect to a wireless modem, they make devices that
plug into a USB port, easier than getting a PCI card. I have one I paid
2 dollars for at a hamfest. He must have thought it was broken because
when I asked what it was, he lowered the price a dollar. It works for
10 or 15 minutes, at a slower speed than I get with the cable, and then
I think it stops working. I'm sure a new one would worrk much better.

I wonder if wireless ever matches the wired speed. When the
computer was upstairs, right next to the modem, I certainly used a cable
then.

Someone commented on max DSL download speeds. I've mentioned before that
the wiring in my house is faulty, so I've run my own wire from the NID
outside up the front of the house , in the window, through the spare
bedroom and into the office to a phone line Y connector and then the DSL
modem. First (stage 1) I used regular flat, grey modular wire,
but then (stage 2) I used wire that was even thinner than that but grey
and flat but suitable for modular plugs but even cheaper. Then the
phone worked but not the DSL at all. . And when (stage 3) I swtiched
to thicker wire, not flat but white and round, with 4 fairly stiff wires
inside, my download speed tripled from what it had been at stage 1.

One person somewhere didnt' believe the thickness of the wire could
matter, but I think it did.


Just last week, after two years, I got better wire still, flat shielded
cable, so I can shut the alumimum window on the wire, but I haven't
installed it yet.

Do come back and tell us how you get on!

Yes, indeed.
 
M

micky

If you are using primarily text services like Email and usenet, dial
up is not really that bad. I barely notice I am not on DSL if I am
just reading my mail.

That's true, and they made up a greater percentage of what I did when I
was on dial-up

This won't do Ken any good, because his dsl will be there in 2 weeks,
but when I got mad at RCN for another reason, they offered me a web
accelerator it might have been called. It would only send a fraction of
the bytes, leaving out I think the adjacent pixels if they were the same
as the one they were sending. Maybe sometimes leaving out 80% of the
webpage, but letting something at my end recreate it. I thought it was
a joke but after I tried it, it really worked.

But the ISP has to have special servers or something set up to transmit
this
That sounds more like a network/router problem than a DSL problem

Maybe. I'm supposed to move the computer to the 2nd floor when it's
no longer hot up there. Hey, I guess that's now. So maybe I can more
attention to the router. And of course it's not doing it now anyhow.

When I move the cmputer, my workbench will be clear and I can catch up
on my other repairs.
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

Just in case someone here doesn't know it, ADSL stands for "asymmetric
digital subscriber line."
 

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