Message to the chap who said that perhaps I am not an audiophile...
Can you please read my response to Bill below...
choro
*****
choro said:
On 11/12/2010 17:30, WaIIy wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 00:34:40 -0700, "Bill in Co"
AND also those who insist that vinyl records are
better than digital CDs, "because one is analog, and the other is
digitized". [hopefully you're not in that camp, and I don't think
you are!]
Records *are* better than cds.Oh, yes, of course!
Far, far better at producing crackling sounds etc etc.
And all those strange sounds created by dust in the grooves. It is
absolutely impossible for the clean sparkling sound of a CD to match
all those extra sounds generated by LPs.
LPs and particularly old recordings on LPs remind me of fiddling with
a bow with no rosin! Better still rub the hair on the bow with some
vaseline to get somewhere near the sound of at least the not state of
the art LPs. You could also try rubbing the hair with some butter a la
Last Tango in Paris!
Humorous.... unfortunately, if you are serious, you are certainly no
audiophile. It's got nothing to do with the items about which you made
the funny comments...the musical quality on a vinyl LP is superior to CD
for reasons having nothing to do with the scratches and dust. A little
actual listening and research would educate you.
Sir, I was trained as a musician, as a fiddler in fact. And trust me,
with my perfect pitch, I can tell a good natural sound from one not so
good. And I can tell you here and now that there are very few
loudspeakers that can recreate natural sounds. Of course the whole chain
of sound creation is important but the most important is the end link --
the speakers, providing of course that one bears in mind the RIRA
principle (Rubbish In, Rubbish Out)! And good speakers will reproduce
rubbish very accurately! I also happen to own a very good set of Danish
speakers that can recreate sounds very naturally. In fact with a good
recording or a properly miked live broadcast you can imagine yourself
in the concert hall listening to the music live. In other words they
bring the concert hall to your living room.
And just to emphasize this, the speakers are THE most important link in the
sound whole chain (and incidentally, the hardest to "quantify").
Of course they are. Going back to the fiddle example, they are the
equivalent of the body of the violin and in particular the soundboard,
which is the top of the main body of the instrument. The best strings on
a cheap violin will not make the violin sound like a Stradivarius. And
conversely bad strings on a Stradivarius or a Guernarius will bring out
all the weaknesses of bad strings. I once made the mistake of trying to
listen to a cheap casette walkman through a pair of expensive Sennheiser
headphones. I couldn't believe the horrible sounds I was hearing! But
listening a a Yamaha CT2000 Tuner through the same headphones was a
revelation. Well, to be honest it wasn't because I was trying to hear
the difference in the sound between the headphones and the Tannoy
Buckinghams and I couldn't hear any difference in the quality of the
sound, in the differentiation and separation of the different strands of
the polyphonic music. Now, that is what I call hi-fi and what some
snobbish people like to call audiophile which is just a posher word for
hi-fi. To be honest most so called hi-fi is not really and truly high
fidelity. Mid-fi would be a better term for most so called hi-fi
systems. The lower end of the so-called hi-fi systems is crap, to be honest!
I've got a pair of the good ole, Acoustic Research AR3's, and wont't part
with them for anything.
Checking out speakers is an art in itself
(not a science).
Of course it is. The important and only criterion for me is this: Do
they sound like the sound is coming from speakers or do they make you
think that you are listening to the live performance? I had a big pair
of B&W's which were bloody good speakers but I gave them away to my
nephew because I had bought a pair of big Dynaudios which were
completely transparent. They didn't sound like the sound was coming from
speakers. But some people like the drama of the thumps and the
exaggerated sound of the double-basses etc. Now, I ask those people to
go to a live concert and listen to a world class orchestra and try and
remember that sound. Can your speakers reproduce that sound
unexaggerated and with no drama? If yes, then you have got a good setup
and a good pair of speakers.
There is one point here I'll concede; some may prefer the sound of records
over CDs simply due to the inherent limitations and colorations of the
record media and the cartridge/stylus playing them. But that's not
accuracy or faithfulness of reproduction.
If a CD were made directly from a live performance using state of the art
technology, it's going to sound better than if a record were made (pressed
or cut) directly from a live performance, due to the technology limitations
of both media and their players. The record *may* sound a bit different
(perhaps some would call it "warmer"), but that is due to the limitations
(nuances) of the media, however.
In general, yes, LP's do sound a bit warmer and that is what so-called
mistaken audiophilies are looking for. Now, going back to the fiddle,
when the sound went like that I knew it was time to apply some more
rosin to the bow to provide the right bite to the strings.
But that was for a full set of surround sound speakers. The pair of
stereo speakers I left with my ex would cost more than that today. They
are only available to special order and are usually used by recording
studios, broadcasting studios etc. The JBL model which was more or less
identical in most respects to the Tannoy Buckinghams cost £10K for a
matched pair when I last checked prices several years ago. But you
should hear them (I mean both the Tannoys and the JBLs) to realize what
a natural sound reproduction is like. But the big Dynaudios I have
bought second hand are not bad at all considering the fact that they are
about 1/3rd the size of my old Tannoy Buckinghams.
But, sir, there are some real "audiophile" speakers that cost 10 times
that much for those with real deep pockets. I listened to one such
set-up years ago and must say that I was very impressed but at that
level it is difficult to tell whether they actually sounded better than
the Tannoy Buckinghams. The only way to tell if there is any difference
is by instant A/B comparison. I remember one such comparison between the
Tannoys and the equivalent JBLs in a large hall. But to be honest I
couldn't tell the difference. They were fed through a Citation
pre-amplifier attached to some state of the art amplifier.
In the final analysis, judging speakers is like trying to gauge the
difference between a Stradivarius and a Guernarius violin. It really
depends on the individual violins whether one is better than the other.
The same goes for concert grand pianos. Not all Steinway Concert Grands
are the same! Actually I have heard a lot of bad things about Steinways.
One hall replaced their Steinway Concert Grand for a similar Yamaha
after endless troubles with the strings on the Steinway. Strange isn't
it that the best western musical instruments are made by the Japanese!
Flutes, saxophones, sexophones, you name it. The Japs are best at it.
Why, that Irish whistle blower James Galway uses a Japanese flute!
Forget about Japanese electronic equipment. Who can argue against the
desirability of Japanese (and other Far Eastern) girls? ;-)
--
choro
******
