Working on making a dual boot again, WinXP & Ubuntu

[Nehmo]

From what I've read, it seems easier to use BootMagic than the
bootloader that comes with Windows. But I might be wrong. I don't know
this subject.

This is where I'm at now:

As you can see by this screenshot of Computer Management:
http://home.kc.rr.com/plumb/comman.gif

I'm running on WinXP installed on C, Disk 1. That works fine right now.
My goal is to have WinXP and Ubuntu as a dual boot.

There are 3 physical hard disks and one CD ROM. The CD ROM 0 is
apparently just what Daemon tools makes, and there's nothing really
there. CD ROM 1 is the real DVD/CD read-write drive.

Disk 0, Lime (G 149.05 GB NTFS
Disk 1 First Concord (C 14.30 GB NTFS
Disk 2
BOOTMAGIC 47 MB FAT32
First Concord (F 19.49 GB NTFS
(Unknown Partition) 19.55 GB EXT3
DATAFAT32 (J 35.44 GB FAT32
CD ROM 0
CD ROM 1

I used PartitionMagic to make the 4 partitions on Disk 2. I thought
placing a FAT32 partition at the beginning was what was needed for
BootMagic, so that's what I made.

Using Ghost 2003, I cloned Disk 1 (C) to the second partition (F), but
other than that, there's nothing on the disk yet.

The unknown partition is formatted using EXT3. I plan to make the
machine a dual-boot and install Ubuntu there.

After I have Windows working on Disk 2, I plan to physically remove
Disk 1.

I plan to use Disk 0 for data. It's already almost full, but I could
rearrange things.

So what's my next step? Do I install BootMagic on the first partition
of Disk 2? Do I then physically remove Disk 1 and try to reboot? Is my
plan of disk usage reasonable?

 

[ray]

bootloader that comes with Windows. But I might be wrong. I don't know
this subject.

This is where I'm at now:

As you can see by this screenshot of Computer Management:
http://home.kc.rr.com/plumb/comman.gif

I'm running on WinXP installed on C, Disk 1. That works fine right now.
My goal is to have WinXP and Ubuntu as a dual boot.

There are 3 physical hard disks and one CD ROM. The CD ROM 0 is
apparently just what Daemon tools makes, and there's nothing really
there. CD ROM 1 is the real DVD/CD read-write drive.

Disk 0, Lime (G 149.05 GB NTFS
Disk 1 First Concord (C 14.30 GB NTFS
Disk 2
BOOTMAGIC 47 MB FAT32
First Concord (F 19.49 GB NTFS
(Unknown Partition) 19.55 GB EXT3
DATAFAT32 (J 35.44 GB FAT32
CD ROM 0
CD ROM 1

I used PartitionMagic to make the 4 partitions on Disk 2. I thought
placing a FAT32 partition at the beginning was what was needed for
BootMagic, so that's what I made.

Using Ghost 2003, I cloned Disk 1 (C) to the second partition (F), but
other than that, there's nothing on the disk yet.

The unknown partition is formatted using EXT3. I plan to make the
machine a dual-boot and install Ubuntu there.

After I have Windows working on Disk 2, I plan to physically remove
Disk 1.

I plan to use Disk 0 for data. It's already almost full, but I could
rearrange things.

So what's my next step? Do I install BootMagic on the first partition
of Disk 2? Do I then physically remove Disk 1 and try to reboot? Is my
plan of disk usage reasonable?

I would (in fact I have) install Ubuntu and let it install GRUB for boot
management. It will also set up the dual boot for you.

 

[Nehmo]

Okay, then in the arrangement I have, I install Ubuntu on the Disk 2
unknown partition. Then what? Where does Grub get installed? Do I
configure the BIOS to find the first boot device somewhere? Do I have
to rearrange the partitions on Disk 2?
I think I need to study some more.

 

[Arno Wagner]

From what I've read, it seems easier to use BootMagic than the

bootloader that comes with Windows. But I might be wrong. I don't know
this subject. [....]
So what's my next step? Do I install BootMagic on the first partition
of Disk 2? Do I then physically remove Disk 1 and try to reboot? Is my
plan of disk usage reasonable?

I would (in fact I have) install Ubuntu and let it install GRUB for boot
management. It will also set up the dual boot for you.

Grub is fine for booting XP also. I habe been doing this without
issues for several years now. BootMagic is just some inferiour
commercial product for those that cannot read documentation.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

Okay, then in the arrangement I have, I install Ubuntu on the Disk 2
unknown partition. Then what? Where does Grub get installed?

In the MBR and traditionally in /boot.

Do I
configure the BIOS to find the first boot device somewhere?

Yes. You have to tell it what to boot off first. Typically that
is floppy->cdrom->first HDD, so it is fine. The BIOS does
not care about partitions, it just loads and starts the boot code
from the MBR.

Do I have to rearrange the partitions on Disk 2?

Not at all.

I think I need to study some more.

1. Make /boot/grub/menu.lst
Example:
default 0
timeout 60

# 0 (kernel on hd0/partition0, / on /dev/md1)
title Linux 2.6.15.4 /dev/md1
kernel (hd0,0)/2_6_15_4 root=/dev/md1

# 1 (XP on hd0/partition1)
title Trash-OS /dev/hda1
root (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

The only thing you need to look up here is how Grub enumerates disks.

2. Call grub-install /dev/hda

That should do it. After installation of XP, you will likely have
to boot grub from floppy or CD (make one), since XP impolitely
installs its own boot-manager ond overwrites Grub without asking
(which IMO is software sabotage and criminal). Re-run grub-install
and you are fine again.

Arno

 

[Nehmo]

Nehmo -
Arno Wagner -

In the MBR and traditionally in /boot.

Nehmo -
I know MBR is Master Boot Record. Apparently it's on C with Windows.
And since I cloned C to F (see http://home.kc.rr.com/plumb/comman.gif),
there's one there too. But I think I can't boot off that one because
it's on the second partition of the disk 2 and the BIOS looks for the
MBR on the first partition of the disk. Am I right?

But I made 50 MB FAT32 partition at the beginning of that disk. I
thought I was going to install BootMagic there. So I should install
Grub there instead? How do I go about doing that? When I run the Ubuntu
install program that's on the ISO, will it ask me where I want to
install Grub?

What I downloaded was
ubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso

So what exactly do I do, do I mount that via Windows using Daemon
Tools, and then run an installation program that's on that iso?

Nehmo -
Arno Wagner -

Yes. You have to tell it what to boot off first. Typically that
is floppy->cdrom->first HDD, so it is fine. The BIOS does
not care about partitions, it just loads and starts the boot code
from the MBR.

Nehmo -
I Currently have the BIOS set for first boot device to be the little
hard disk that Windows in on, C. Do I keep it that way?

Nehmo -
Arno Wagner -

Not at all.

Nehmo -
Arno Wagner -

1. Make /boot/grub/menu.lst
Example:
default 0
timeout 60

# 0 (kernel on hd0/partition0, / on /dev/md1)
title Linux 2.6.15.4 /dev/md1
kernel (hd0,0)/2_6_15_4 root=/dev/md1

# 1 (XP on hd0/partition1)
title Trash-OS /dev/hda1
root (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

Nehmo -
I'm sure after I get going, what you just wrote will seem simple to me,
but at this point, I don't understand what it is. Are you saying I
should make a text file containing what you wrote and title it menu.lst
and put it in /boot/grub/?
When am I supposed to do this? After Ubuntu is successfully installed?
I can't see how I can do it now; I'm running Windows on NTFS.

 

[Nehmo]

Alright I'll abandon the BootMagic plan. But now I'm at a loss for my
next step.

 

[Nehmo]

By the way, I have the CD ROMs switched. CD ROM 0 is the real one; CD
ROM 1 is the virtual one created by Daemon Tools. I realize this isn't
important.

 

[Nehmo]

I just watched the video about installing Ubuntu and WinXP:
http://snipurl.com/mtrn or
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6104490811311898236&q=linux

So I shouldn't have bothered with PartitionMagic at all. Actually, even
though I cloned XP to partition F, I can't boot to it. Maybe I should
Copy my Ubuntu iso to a CD
Physically remove Disk 1, currently C
Fresh install XP on what is now Disk 2
(I only have an upgrade WinXP installation CD, so I need qualifying
media, which could be the clone image I have on F)
Delete (maybe this should come first) or Don't make the little
partition I made for BootMagic.
Use the Ubuntu CD to install Ubuntu and Grub as on the video.

 

[Arno Wagner]

Nehmo -

Arno Wagner -

Nehmo -
I know MBR is Master Boot Record. Apparently it's on C with Windows.

No. That is the "partition boot sector". The MASTER boot record is
allways in the first sector of the disk. To givve you some images:

XP boot native:

XP-MBR (sector 1 hdd 1) ---> XP-Bootsecotor (sector 1 partition c
---> XP loader (on C: as a file)

Grub boot for XP:

Grub-MBR (sector 1 hdd 1, reads menu.lst from where it was when
grub was installed, can be any BIOS visible ext2 or FAT partition)
Displays meny, awaits user selection or timeout ---> XP-Bootsector
(sector 1 partition c ---> XP loader (file on c

Grub boot for Linux:

Grub-MBR (sector 1 hdd 1, reads menu.lst from where it was when
grub was installed, can be any BIOS visible ext2 or FAT partition)
Displays meny, awaits user selection or timeout ---> load kernel
into memory (file in some partition grub can rad in ext2 or fat
format) ---> Kernel initialises hardware and mounts / (given
as commandline to kernel by Grub).

Only the loading of the MBR is doine by the BIOS, After that
the code in the MBR (the "boot manager") takes control. Usually
this code needs support from the BIOS to locate the diska and the
partitions on them though.

And since I cloned C to F (see http://home.kc.rr.com/plumb/comman.gif),
there's one there too. But I think I can't boot off that one because
it's on the second partition of the disk 2 and the BIOS looks for the
MBR on the first partition of the disk. Am I right?

No, see above. The MBR is all the BIOS cares about.

But I made 50 MB FAT32 partition at the beginning of that disk. I
thought I was going to install BootMagic there. So I should install
Grub there instead? How do I go about doing that? When I run the Ubuntu
install program that's on the ISO, will it ask me where I want to
install Grub?

You want Grub in the MBR of the first HDD. To get it there
use "grub-install /dev/hda" (for an IDE disk). Grub uses
support files, like the kernels, the menue file and more
of its own code, but that can reside on any partition the
BIOS can access.

What I downloaded was
ubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso

So what exactly do I do, do I mount that via Windows using Daemon
Tools, and then run an installation program that's on that iso?

No. 1. install XP, 2. Install Ubuntu (the ISO should be bootable, boot
from it and follow the instructions), select Grub to boot Ubuntu and
then boot Ubunto and add the entry to boot windows with Grub as
well. In fact Grub will just boot the boot sector of the windows
partition, that boot sector takes if from there (that is why it is
called "cain-loading"). It may be that Ubunto uffers you to boot XP
with Grub as well. In that case just use that, no need to do
you rown menue file.

Nehmo -

Arno Wagner -

Nehmo -
I Currently have the BIOS set for first boot device to be the little
hard disk that Windows in on, C. Do I keep it that way?

Nehmo -

Arno Wagner -

Nehmo -

Arno Wagner -

Nehmo -
I'm sure after I get going, what you just wrote will seem simple to me,
but at this point, I don't understand what it is. Are you saying I
should make a text file containing what you wrote and title it menu.lst
and put it in /boot/grub/?

First install Ubuntu with Grub. It will put something like the
file above into /boot/grub/menu.lst What you need to add (unless
the Ubuntu installer does it for you) is the entry to boot XP,
which is this part of the example:

# 1 (XP on hd0/partition1)
title Trash-OS /dev/hda1
root (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

The first line is a comment. The second line is the line
Grub will show in its menu. The third line specifies the
partition XP is on (the c: partition). The 4th line tells
Grub to set the partition active before booting it. XP
is stupid and needs that. The last line tells Grub to
loas the first sector of the partition specified in the
"root" line and execute the boot code in it (i.e., hand
over control to it).

When am I supposed to do this? After Ubuntu is successfully installed?

Yes. Unless the Ubuntu installer offers you to add boot entries for
exixting OS installations.

I can't see how I can do it now; I'm running Windows on NTFS.

You could, if Grub were already installed. But it would require
a FAT32 partition, since nothing except XP can read/write NTFS
reliably. That is why I use FAT32 for my XP installation.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

Alright I'll abandon the BootMagic plan. But now I'm at a loss for my
next step.

Install Ubuntu. This might make XP unbootable (but Ubuntu bootable).
See my other post on how to add XP to what Grub can boot again.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

I just watched the video about installing Ubuntu and WinXP:
http://snipurl.com/mtrn or
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6104490811311898236&q=linux

So I shouldn't have bothered with PartitionMagic at all. Actually, even
though I cloned XP to partition F, I can't boot to it. Maybe I should
Copy my Ubuntu iso to a CD
Physically remove Disk 1, currently C
Fresh install XP on what is now Disk 2
(I only have an upgrade WinXP installation CD, so I need qualifying
media, which could be the clone image I have on F)
Delete (maybe this should come first) or Don't make the little
partition I made for BootMagic.
Use the Ubuntu CD to install Ubuntu and Grub as on the video.

Sounds about correct. Did not know they had a video. Ubuntu is
supposed to really invest in making the distro user-friendly, so
I am not surprised. I never used Ubuntu (I use Debian testing),
but Ubunto is supposed to be a pretty good distro for beginners
and intermediate users.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

By the way, I have the CD ROMs switched. CD ROM 0 is the real one; CD
ROM 1 is the virtual one created by Daemon Tools. I realize this isn't
important.

Since you need to boot from a physical CD, and the BIOS does not care
about virtual CDROMS, it does not matter at all.

Arno

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Nehmo -

Arno Wagner -

Nehmo -
I know MBR is Master Boot Record. Apparently it's on C with Windows.
And since I cloned C to F (see http://home.kc.rr.com/plumb/comman.gif),
there's one there too. But I think I can't boot off that one because
it's on the second partition of the disk 2 and the BIOS looks for the
MBR on the first partition of the disk. Am I right?

No. The Boot Sector that is on the Primary partition that is
marked "active" gets control. The BIOS loads the MBR that
is on the HD at the head of the BIOS's HD boot order. The
MBR code looks for the "active" partition and loads the code
from the Boot Sector of that "active" partition. In MS land,
the Boot Sector code hands off control to ntldr in that partition,
and ntldr does the boot loading of the OS.

Depending on which cloning utility you use, you can have
the option of copying the MBR and the option of whether to
mark the clone's partition "active". Casper XP does both
automatically. Copying a clone to a partition on the same HD
can be problematice unless you never start up the clone but
just use it as a backup storage area. The reason is that the
1st startup of the clone must be done with the "parent" OS's
partition not visible to the clone, and that's hard to do if the
clone and the "parent" are on the same HD.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Nehmo]

TimDaniels - No. The Boot Sector that is on the Primary partition that
is
marked "active" gets control. The BIOS loads the MBR that
is on the HD at the head of the BIOS's HD boot order. The
MBR code looks for the "active" partition and loads the code
from the Boot Sector of that "active" partition.

Nehmo - Okay, in the situation on Disk 2 of my existing setup, if I
"make active" the F partition via Windows Disk Management, then
physically remove Disk 1, then using the BIOS setup utility, put Disk 2
first in the boot order, then should the WinXP on partition F boot?
I certainly could try it.
I think that's my first step. I should get the F WinXP (a clone of C
made using Ghost 2003) to boot. Then maybe I can just follow the
general instructions to add Ubuntu as an additional OS.

 

[Nehmo]

The video was just something made by a couple of guys. It wasn't made
by any official Ubuntu group.To someone like you, who already knows
what they are doing, it wouldn't be very interesting.

 

[Arno Wagner]

No. The Boot Sector that is on the Primary partition that is
marked "active" gets control. The BIOS loads the MBR that
is on the HD at the head of the BIOS's HD boot order. The
MBR code looks for the "active" partition and loads the code
from the Boot Sector of that "active" partition. In MS land,
the Boot Sector code hands off control to ntldr in that partition,
and ntldr does the boot loading of the OS.

Caution! The MBR that "looks for the "active" partition" is already
an MS MBR. Others may do something else as, e.g., the Grub MBR does.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

The video was just something made by a couple of guys. It wasn't made
by any official Ubuntu group.To someone like you, who already knows
what they are doing, it wouldn't be very interesting.

Probably. Still interesting that it exists.

Arno

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Okay, in the situation on Disk 2 of my existing setup, if I
"make active" the F partition via Windows Disk Management, then
physically remove Disk 1, then using the BIOS setup utility, put Disk 2
first in the boot order, then should the WinXP on partition F boot?
I certainly could try it.
I think that's my first step. I should get the F WinXP (a clone of C
made using Ghost 2003) to boot. Then maybe I can just follow the
general instructions to add Ubuntu as an additional OS.

If you remove Disk 1, Disk 2 automatically moves up a notch
in the HD boot order, so you don't have to fiddle with the BIOS.
But as Arno Wagner warns, differences intrude at some point
between Microsoft boot procedures/formats and those of Linux.
I don't know where those differences are and how to handle
them. For those reasons, I'd rather put Linux and Microsoft's
OSes on different hard drives and not have to diddle with
3rd party boot managers or making grub deal with Microsoft.
But... your preferences may differ.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Robert Hull]

In comp.os.linux.misc, on Wed 22 February 2006 22:29, Nehmo

Nehmo - Okay, in the situation on Disk 2 of my existing setup, if I
"make active" the F partition via Windows Disk Management, then
physically remove Disk 1, then using the BIOS setup utility, put Disk
2 first in the boot order, then should the WinXP on partition F boot?

Possibly not for a couple of reasons:

1 If you had installed Disk 2 as a slave you would need to rejumper it
to become a master upon removing Disk 1

2 As you have not installed Windows on Disk 2, I am unsure what, if
anything, will be in the MBR of that disk and you are proposing to
remove the disk with a Windows formatted MBR

I certainly could try it.

True. So far, I have not seen the reason why you want to remove Disk 1.
Are you not making life too hard for yourself by doing that?

I think that's my first step. I should get the F WinXP (a clone of C
made using Ghost 2003) to boot. Then maybe I can just follow the
general instructions to add Ubuntu as an additional OS.

The most general instructions for doing that would be:

1 Boot from the Ubuntu install disk

2 Tell it to install in the ext3 partition you made with Partition
Magic

3 Allow it to reformat and use the small partition as /boot

4 Accept the option to boot Windows if asked

5 Allow grub to install into the MBR of whatever is the first hard disk