Wireless mouse, keboard

[Mayayana]

I may need to hook up wireless mouse and
keyboard for a friend. I've never used either
myself. Do they work with XP? Is compatibility
dependent on OS, motherboard, or something
else. In other words, how can I know before
buying whether a wireless mouse or keyboard
will definitely work with a given machine?

 

[Dave Doe]

I may need to hook up wireless mouse and
keyboard for a friend. I've never used either
myself. Do they work with XP? Is compatibility
dependent on OS, motherboard, or something
else. In other words, how can I know before
buying whether a wireless mouse or keyboard
will definitely work with a given machine?

What *is* the keyboard mouse set?

Or answer your own question, check the 'System Requirements' for the set
you're looking at.

 

[Good Guy]

Or answer your own question, check the 'System Requirements' for the
set you're looking at.

Are you serious to think that an 86 year old suffering from
dementia/Alzheimer can know this?

 

[Paul]

I may need to hook up wireless mouse and
keyboard for a friend. I've never used either
myself. Do they work with XP? Is compatibility
dependent on OS, motherboard, or something
else. In other words, how can I know before
buying whether a wireless mouse or keyboard
will definitely work with a given machine?

The BIOS state and OS state are mentioned here. This
article is for Mac users of some sort, but it at least
exposes the technical name for the feature.

http://www.0xf8.org/2014/02/the-crux-of-finding-a-hid-proxy-capable-usb-bluetooth-adapter/

The Bluetooth dongle can support HID proxy, which
is what makes it look like a USB HID device to the
BIOS, without the BIOS needing a Bluetooth stack.

When the OS runs, it switches to something in the
Bluetooth stack. It has to know about HID Proxy
and the need to switch away from it.

*******

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth

"For Microsoft platforms, Windows XP SP2 and SP3 releases
work natively with Bluetooth 1.1, 2.0 and 2.0+EDR.

The Windows XP and Windows Vista/Windows 7 Bluetooth stacks
support the following Bluetooth profiles natively:

PAN
SPP
DUN
HID <---
HCRP

The Windows XP stack can be replaced by a third party
stack which may support more profiles or newer versions
of Bluetooth.
"

*******

For sufficiently old motherboards, I'm sure it'll fall
flat as a pancake If I was testing this fine stuff, I'd
want a P4 or better system, that has that separate BIOS page
with USB settings in it. The one that also supports USB booting.
As that is the beginning of decent support.

And I've never tried any of this fine stuff myself.
As a non-mobile (won't run around house with computer
in hand) Luddite, I've never felt the need to make
everything wireless. I have been known to run around with
a laptop, but that was back when I was using the laptop
plus a webcam, as a replacement for not having a digital
camera. I eventually got a digital camera, so the laptop
doesn't have to perform that duty any more.

HTH,
Paul

 

[Don Phillipson]

I may need to hook up wireless mouse and
keyboard for a friend. I've never used either
myself. Do they work with XP? Is compatibility
dependent on OS, motherboard, or something
else. In other words, how can I know before
buying whether a wireless mouse or keyboard
will definitely work with a given machine?

The Logitech M570 wireless mouse worked flawlessly
out of the box with WinXP (SP3). You just fit the
transmitter component in an empty USB socket
and proceed. Custom software is optional (for
extra functions.)

 

[Mayayana]

Thank you, folks. Sounds promising. I built the
box myself, in 2010, I think. And it's XP SP3. So
I guess wireless shouldn't be a problem.

And thanks, Paul, for the links. I didn't even know
that they worked by Bluetooth. I don't have any
Bluetooth hardware at all, so I never paid much
attention to it.

 

[Paul]

Thank you, folks. Sounds promising. I built the
box myself, in 2010, I think. And it's XP SP3. So
I guess wireless shouldn't be a problem.

And thanks, Paul, for the links. I didn't even know
that they worked by Bluetooth. I don't have any
Bluetooth hardware at all, so I never paid much
attention to it.

It's interesting that some devices that come with
their own USB transceiver, they look similar to
Bluetooth. The Unifying receiver has a six device limit,
close to the seven device limit on Bluetooth (for a single
piconet).

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/promotions/6072

http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/6254

"No software or App is needed to use this product" (well, maybe)

But software is required (apparently), for pairing.
Maybe the radio in these things is Bluetooth (frequency
hopping at 2.4GHz, nominally compatible with Wifi in the
same band). On Linux, the device needed a separate application
to set up device pairs for the first time.

https://lekensteyn.nl/logitech-unifying.html

And the referenced code module, reminds me that since
the unifying receiver can have multiple things connected
to it, it cannot really be "transparent". So maybe the
Class code is HID, but it lists as a composite device or
something, to expose the devices underneath.

https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/hid/hid-logitech-dj.c

Maybe USBView, USBTreeView or similar, would provide
hints as to what it looked like.

The kickoff point was here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Unifying_receiver

At one time, some of these things were a bit simpler, operated
on other frequencies, and probably didn't work as well. Like
running at 27MHz and battling with toy cars. And in the past,
I could find very little documentation as to even what
frequency bands they tended to use. Presumably every
unlicensed public frequency has been used for a keyboard
at some point

HTH,
Paul

 

[OldGuy]

There are so many wireless mouse and keyboard and combination boxed
mouse and keyboard sets to choose from.
I have purchased many over the years for home and work as a lab
director.

I had big trouble with logitech wireless mouse and keyboards and put
them aside.

I had big trouble with most MS mouse and keyboard sets and put them
aside.

Why, range and battery consumption.
I typically use the mouse and keyboard aboyt 5 feet from the receiver
plugged into the front of a pc. Any object getting between the mouse
and receiver caused distuption.

I use the sets on my home PC that has a TV receiver and the range was
poor there too. they do not meet specs.

Some of this my be signal level and/or interference with other devices
I have. This needs to be considered.

I never found a perfect solution but my best set was from (ugh) MS.
MS Keyboard Mouse Set 5000

I also have many MS Mobile mouse for my laptops. I cannot stand the
built-in pads. The MS Mobile mouse is the best for use with laptops.
I can store the receiver in the mouse for traveling and the mouse has
an on off switch on the mouse. it is also small. I have large hands
but find the small mouse the best for long use as i can cup my hand in
a relaxed way and use it easily.
the mobile mouse has a side button that i set for magnify; this I need.
MS Mobile Mouse 4000

I would only recommend these based on my decades of experience and not
the manufacturer.

One of my MS sets had a lighted keyboard. would have to dig it out so
do not remember the model. It was junked after several months of
frustration. poor range. very poor battery life.

why can't they use a decently sized battery and make it rechargeable???
Some are really crap designs.

 

[Mayayana]

| I typically use the mouse and keyboard aboyt 5 feet from the receiver
| plugged into the front of a pc. Any object getting between the mouse
| and receiver caused distuption.
|
That's another issue I hadn't yet got around to
thinking about. I guess I'll probably need to talk
to a store clerk. This is all more complex than I'd
expected.
The setup is for a blind friend who wants to use
a PC from his easy chair. The mouse probably
doesn't have to be wireless. He, himself only
uses a keyboard. But the range will probably
need to be at least 5 feet, if possible.
I have a Logitech trackball that I like, but I'll
keep your advice in mind regarding the Logitech
wireless gear.

 

[Mayayana]

| Are you asking about an RF or Bluetooth wireless keyboard and mouse?

Darned if I know!
RF stands for radio frequency? Maybe that's what the
"Unifying receiver" is that Paul linked to? I don't really
know enough to even ask the right questions. I just
remember the fiasco with USB in Win95, where MS added
support but it never really worked. So I wanted to try to
get an idea of the landscape before I proceed, to make
sure what I want to do is feasible.

 

[Paul]

| Are you asking about an RF or Bluetooth wireless keyboard and mouse?

Darned if I know!
RF stands for radio frequency? Maybe that's what the
"Unifying receiver" is that Paul linked to? I don't really
know enough to even ask the right questions. I just
remember the fiasco with USB in Win95, where MS added
support but it never really worked. So I wanted to try to
get an idea of the landscape before I proceed, to make
sure what I want to do is feasible.

One reviewer here guessed the Logitech one would
work at 25 feet or so.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Unifying-receiver-mouse-keyboard/dp/B0058OU8VY

And you can always pick up a three foot extension cord
and wave the thing around for best results.

An active USB3 device (like a USB3 disk drive on a
long cable) can interfere with 2.4GHz devices. It all
depends on how well the USB3 disk drive is shielded
as to the degree of interference. This is information
from an Intel study. Apparently USB2 operation isn't
nearly as disruptive (doesn't smother that frequency
band).

Paul

 

[Mayayana]

| One reviewer here guessed the Logitech one would
| work at 25 feet or so.
|
|
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Unifying-receiver-mouse-keyboard/dp/B0058OU8VY
|

Interesting. The link you posted earlier to Wikipedia
said "UR" is not compatible with Bluetooth. I guess
they're all just different types of radio waves? I don't
really understand that. And gfretwell just said one may
need Bluetooth to get beyond 4'. I guess I need to
take a trip to Staples and figure out what my options
are in the first place.

 

[VanguardLH]

| Are you asking about an RF or Bluetooth wireless keyboard and mouse?

Darned if I know!
RF stands for radio frequency? Maybe that's what the
"Unifying receiver" is that Paul linked to? I don't really
know enough to even ask the right questions. I just
remember the fiasco with USB in Win95, where MS added
support but it never really worked. So I wanted to try to
get an idea of the landscape before I proceed, to make
sure what I want to do is feasible.

If you have a Bluetooth transceiver (built into the mobo or added as a
daughtercard or USB dongle), you get the ad-hoc network setup that
Bluetooth provides. You use 1 Bluetooth transceiver that can
communicate with multiple Bluetooth-enabled devices. Once you have
Bluetooth at the computer, you can add 7 Bluetooth devices to your
master Bluetooth controller but I suspect you could use chaining to get
more devices added. Bluetooth isn't just for keyboards and mice. Lots
of other devices come Bluetooth capable.

I think most wireless devices, like keyboards and mice, use RF (radio
frequency) to communicate with an RF transceiver (e.g., USB RF
transceiver dongle). I haven't bothered to review the two technologies
for so long that I don't remember the difference other than Bluetooth is
an ad-hoc network setup but has some limitations compared to RF. I
don't know if Bluetooth is easier to setup than RF but I suspect RF
device makers have simplified the setup using some wizard program.

I don't bother with wireless devices because my desktops aren't moving
around so neither are their peripherals (keyboard, mouse, printer,
scanner, etc). I also am not bothered with security because I'm wired
instead of wireless. I don't have to be concerned with sharing the RF
or Bluetooth network with other high-traffic devices. I never get flaky
operation of the keyboard or mouse because their batteries are getting
weak. No matter which wireless device you go with, you will NEVER get
the lifespan from a battery charge that they claim. The few times that
I've tried wireless mice from Logitech, IBM, or others, they claimed
that a fully charged battery should last 3 months, or more. Nope, at
about 17 days the device got flaky, the battery was too weak, and I'd
have to replace batteries. I tried switching from alkalines that I'd
have to discard to rechargable NiMh batteries but they didn't last as
long on a charge as a new alkaline. There once was a wireless mouse
that had a charging cradle so you'd put the mouse in there for storage
and to charge but you do have to remember to cradle the mouse after use.

Unless you really need wireless connectivity (which is rarely for the
keyboard and mouse but more for your hosts to wander around your home),
it's just a pain to bother with.

 

[VanguardLH]

Interesting. The link you posted earlier to Wikipedia said "UR" is not
compatible with Bluetooth. I guess they're all just different types
of radio waves? I don't really understand that. And gfretwell just
said one may need Bluetooth to get beyond 4'. I guess I need to take
a trip to Staples and figure out what my options are in the first
place.

Bluetooth frequency: 2.4 to 2.485 GHz
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth)

RF frequency: 27 MHz to up to [and most use] 2.4 GHz
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_keyboard)

So they can overlap at 2.4 GHz except they use different communication
protocols. Akin to voice and DSL sharing the same POTS twisted wire
pair but at different frequency ranges. However, I suspect it is
possible they interfere with each other in close range to the computer
where both types of transceivers are located; see articles found by
http://www.bing.com/search?q=bluetooth rf interference.

From what I remember when last hunting around Newegg for a new keyboard
and mouse (and looking at wireless versions out of curiousity and to
satisfy my presumation that they are over priced), there are a lot more
RF choices than Bluetooth choices. At Newegg, they list 628 Bluetooth
keyboards versus 725 RF ones, and 192 Bluetooth mice versus 999+ RF
ones.

You pay a premium for wireless. Wired is cheaper, safer, and greener
(no depleted batteries regardless of chemistry). You also pay a price
premium buying at a local retail store; however, some let you handle a
demo of each mouse and keyboard model (but, I think, that has long
disappeared so you buy blind, take it home, find out it sucks for feel,
response, or operation, take it back for a refund, and repeat with
another brand and model). I don't know about Staples' return policies
but I used to order from Walmart.com, test, and returns were easy, plus
I'd incorporate the pickups and returns when I grocery shopped.

 

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <[email protected]>,

[]
From my experience, if your machine BIOS supports USB keyboards and
mice, every "wireless" one has worked, with or without the driver.

Mine too. (For "wireless" or "cordless" keyboard-and-mouse sets.)

The driver is mostly to support extra buttons and special features.
I am not sure the PC even knows it is not a regular USB wired device.
The good thing about USB is you can have multiple keyboards and mice.

On old machines with W/98 and no native USB support, you do need the
drivers and it will gripe about not seeing the input devices on POST.
once all the drivers load, it usually works.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... much to the surprise of everyone else in the galaxy, who had not realised
that the best way not to be unhappy is not to have a word for it. (Link
episode)