Windows XP auto updates stinks!!

G

Guest

Yep, and this also highlights a fundamental issue with pop-up windows; if
you're typing when the window pops-up, how good are your 'brakes' -? can you
'stamp on the anchors' - and stop typing - fast enough to avoid typing Enter
into the popup?

This also relates to CD Autorun - The very variable delay between inserting
a CD and autorun happening is the main issue. You insert a CD for other
reasons, and an arbitrary few minutes later a Setup program pops-up,
'stealing' your typing from the program beneath and interpreting it as setup
instructions. Possibly with disastrous results.
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

True - it breaks the rule that you should be aware of every code
change, and be the only enity that initiates such changes.

The problem is that we are forced to choose the least worst of two bad
practices; blindly applying patches as soon as possible, and not
allowing any code changes we haven't personally tested and found to be
safe. A malware can be created and released to exploit a new hole in
less time than it takes to verify a new patch, and the malware has to
just use one exploit whereas you have to test all patches.

If the original code had been defect-free, we wouldn't have been
running with that vulnerability for all the years from NT throuhg to
XP SP1. No-one ever mentions that bit of chronology, and we like to
assume that because we only learned about the exploitability when MS
told us about it when the patch came out, that no-one else could
possibly have found and used in in the years past.

In fact, until recently, many of us may have assumed all malware use
of exploits could only start after an alert drew attention to the
opportunity, and/or a patch provided the reverse-engineering required
to figure out how exploits could be coded.

If your system can boot, and stay booted, that is...

That can be dangerous, as just because you don't use something,
doesn't mean nothing else does. It would be OK if you could rip out
what you don't need, but every new Windows version gives you less and
less ability to do this. If you try, File Protection (or some update)
may put the unwanted code back, and/or re-duhfault your settings.

There is an anti-competitive aspect to this, when you are forced to
lose disk space and have to patch something you don't use because
you'd rather use something else. You may decide that as you're forced
to suffer the downside of having the bundled feature in the system,
you might as well just use it... after all, everyone else does, right?

Absolutely. I'm not in favor of gratuitously changing low-level code
that can prang the system (drivers) and/or cause the system not to
boot (BIOS) unless I have a very good and very specific reason.

System code should be for keeps.

If you can't code for keeps, you should not be writing system code.
As I seem to be closer in ability to "Home User" I feel compelled to respond
to your point of view. While I agree with all that you have said, AND I
will no longer allow Automatic Updates to happen to my machine, I must point
out that Microsoft's own policy is to recommend Automatic Updates.

Microsoft's other policies have in the past included...
- auto-running scripts in email "message text"
- auto-running macros in "documents"
- hiding file name extensions by duhfault, including in Safe Mode
- acting on hidden type info even if riskier than file .ext
- automatically rebooting on system errors, even during boot
- kill, bury, deny irreversible "fixing" of file system corruption
....so I don't feel obliged to trust their judgement.

What I want to do, is:
- download patches as soon as they are available
- install them when or if I choose to do so

There's an option that looks as if it does this, called "download
updates automatically, but let me choose when to install them" - but
the ones you UNcheck to NOT install, get automatically installed when
you shut down XP SP2. The logic seems to be: "Why would you not want
to install these brand new bits of code that we need to foist on you
because the last time we tried to write this code, we screwed up?"

My logic is as follows: By not installing patches immediately, I run
the risk of being unable to safely connect to the Internet for fear of
being exploited through the defect I would now want to patch.

So I want to be able to cut off Internet access, install the
mothballed patch I had already downloaded before the attacks started,
and then I can connect once I'm patched.
I can select those updates I wish installed, and I probably would IF, the
description of the update was written using language even closely
approximating my native one. I am not an Alpha Geek.

MS update documentation comes in two speeds: 3rd gear, and Neutral.

You either get such generic info as to be useless ("an attacker could
run code on your system") or you get the kind of info that may leave
me wanting top gear, while you wish you could take off in 1st :)
Yes, you are correct, I should learn more.

How much can any of us learn?

"we'll patch it later" is simply not a tenable system, and it scales
very poorly indeed. We now have more new patches a month than we may
have had new malware per month, and that means MS have the same sort
of ongoing event-driven urgent development load that av vendors face
(at the very least... as patches have to work when retrofitted into
production PCs that diverge from the fresh-install state).

Consider:
- you install the OS
- you install an incompatible app
- the app breaks
- you uninstall the app
- you cuss the app vendor for not working with the OS

Now, consider:
- you install the OS
- you install an app, and it works
- the OS patches itself
- out of the BlueSoD, the app breaks
- you have no idea why
- by now, you have crucial data that needs the app
- can you blame the app vendor this time?

Specifically, can you blame the app vendor for being incompatible with
OS code that did not exist when the app was written, tested and sold?
...it is easier to follow the recommendation of the company that
made the operating system. Would they intentionally want to
harm me or my machine?

Intention is only part of it. Are they compitent to be trusted not to
harm you by accident, when the only reason you have to allow automatic
patching in the first place is because they fail this trust so often
that you simply can't keep up with testing all the fixes?

We trust computing because we can't trust computing. Great.

The chilling thing is, it doesn't get better when you change software
vendors or development models. At best, you may get a temporary
respite while small market share means fewer and slower malware uptake
of generally the same number of exploit opportunities.


------------ ----- --- -- - - - -
Drugs are usually safe. Inject? (Y/n)
 
K

ks

Joe,

You can type this into the Run Window or a Command Window;

net stop wuauserv

And it'll kill the stupid Windows Update popup crap.


-ks
 

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