Windows 8, take file control back from Microsoft?

[John Doe]

Is there a way to make Windows 8 files as easy to access as they were
in Windows XP?

Thanks.


--
This "file protection" garbage is what I was afraid that Windows XP
was going to implement, taking control away from the user. I'm sure
that the big antitrust trial stopped Microsoft from going in that
direction. But since the case was dropped by our New World Order
leaders, Microsoft has started heading in that direction again. I
don't give a @#$! what the average user's problems might be with
respect to viruses, I don't have those problems. I never had a
significant virus, or any virus that lasted for more than a few
minutes, in Windows XP.

 

[GlowingBlueMist]

Is there a way to make Windows 8 files as easy to access as they were
in Windows XP?

Thanks.

I personally like the program Classic Shell found at the following link.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

There are also many other programs out there that do similar jobs to
this one.

Classic Shell has many features that can be turned on or off depending
on what you want it to do for you. You can make Windows 8 look and feel
quite a bit like XP or Windows 7 depending on options you turn on/off.

Give the web site a viewing and try a Google search for "Classic Shell
Windows 8" minus the quotes and start reading or watching some of the
video's of people showing what/how they are using it.

 

[DevilsPGD]

Is there a way to make Windows 8 files as easy to access as they were
in Windows XP?

Access them the same way you did in XP?

What exactly are you having trouble with?

 

[BillW50]

Access them the same way you did in XP?

What exactly are you having trouble with?

- Documents and Settings is a fake folder.
- My Documents isn't there, but now lives in the Library.
- How to turn off the Library.
- Program Files folder is incomparable with older software and
portable apps.
- Explorer automatically sorts the list in the background (how
to turn off).
- Explorer takes too long scanning for icons and media info on
USB drives.

There are more things of course, but that is a start. It also annoys me
when I am playing the Windows Media Player, just playing files from the
internal hard drive. And then add an internal USB that I use to sync
docs, etc. Then Windows Media Player which shouldn't have anything to do
with the USB drive, is accessing the drive and I can't safely remove it
until I shutdown Media Player first. Either that, or wait 90 minutes or
so until the Media Player is done playing with it. :-(

 

[BillW50]

And then add an internal USB that I use to sync
docs, etc.

I meant external USB drive, sorry.

 

[BillW50]

- Program Files folder is *incomparable* with older software
and portable apps.

Incompatible! I really need to start the day with coffee, without it my
brain's processor is sluggish. :-(

 

[John Doe]

Don't worry about it, SparkyPGD, it's over your head.

- Documents and Settings is a fake folder.
- My Documents isn't there, but now lives in the Library.
- How to turn off the Library.
- Program Files folder is incomparable with older software and
portable apps.
- Explorer automatically sorts the list in the background (how
to turn off).
- Explorer takes too long scanning for icons and media info on
USB drives.

There are more things of course

Some of the other things are at least as significant/troublesome.

To correct a different error... If you copy all the files off of
your hard drive and then replace them to that hard drive, Windows
8 locks all of those files. You can no longer edit any of them.
Seems that has something to do with windows 8 mistakenly assuming
that those files are owned by somebody else and that the real
owner of the PC has no business messing with them. It's typical
Microsoft idiocy taking control of my personal computer under the
pretense of "user protection". Here, the mystery user that windows
8 assumes it's protecting is "Account
Unknown(S-1-5-21-1993962763-854245398-1801674531-1003)".

I'm becoming familiar with the procedure of taking ownership, but
it is not working in this situation. Apparently using the separate
"elevated administrator account" does work to edit those files. So
I'm planning to do another installation and use that account,
instead of using the ordinary user/administrator account that
should allow full control of all of my files on this freaking
Windows machine.

--

 

[Ken Blake]

I personally like the program Classic Shell found at the following link.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/classicshell/

There are also many other programs out there that do similar jobs to
this one.

Although Classic Shell is a good choice, and it's free, in my view
Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/), which costs only
$4.99 USD, is even better, and I strongly recommend it.

 

[John Doe]

Those programs might be useful if I were talking about simply
changing the user interface.

 

[DevilsPGD]

- Documents and Settings is a fake folder.

It's renamed "Users" and has been for a few OSes now. Keep in mind that
you're coming from a very outdated version of Windows.

- My Documents isn't there, but now lives in the Library.

%userprofile%\Documents is there, although it's occasionally displayed
as "My Documents" instead. It doesn't actually live in the Library, but
rather, the Library includes the Documents folder.

- How to turn off the Library.

You don't, but nothing forces you to use it.

- Program Files folder is incomparable with older software and
portable apps.

Nothing has changed here, the Program Files directory still exists and
it supports properly written applications -- Any application written to
use the NT security model going back to the mid-90s (NT 3.x) will
continue to work fine. Program Files go into the Program Files
directory, data files go into the user profile.

If you need to write to this folder without administrative permissions,
you can set the permissions on the particular subfolder to allow your
user account (by name) to write to the folder.

Portable apps should not be installed into the Program Files, but
rather, into somewhere in your local profile.

This was necessary in XP too, unless you ran as Administrator at all
times.

- Explorer automatically sorts the list in the background (how
to turn off).

I'm not sure how to disable sorting. Personally, I'm glad that it
finally sorts properly, but I understand if people use Explorer
differently.

 

[John Doe]

It's renamed "Users" and has been for a few OSes now. Keep in
mind that you're coming from a very outdated version of Windows.


%userprofile%\Documents is there, although it's occasionally
displayed as "My Documents" instead. It doesn't actually live in
the Library, but rather, the Library includes the Documents
folder.


You don't, but nothing forces you to use it.

That's not the point, Sparky.

Nothing has changed here,

Bullshit Sparky. It's owned by "Trusted Installer". Windows is
getting more and more restrictive to its users. It wouldn't be so
bad if there were options readily available to turn off that
garbage, for those of us who know what we're doing.

If you need to write to this folder without administrative
permissions, you can set the permissions on the particular
subfolder to allow your user account (by name) to write to the
folder.

I would correct that (see above), but it sounds like Sparky is
trolling for information, and I'm not going to play its game.

Portable apps should not be installed into the Program Files,
but rather, into somewhere in your local profile.

Sparky just proved his ignorance again. Installing portable apps
in the Program Files folder worked just fine in Windows XP. It
might not be necessary, it might not be best, but in fact I have a
necessary application that works with other applications and it
requires those applications to be in the Program Files folder
(regardless of whether they are portable).

This was necessary in XP too, unless you ran as Administrator at
all times.

Sparky showing its ignorance once again. There was no need to "run
as administrator" in Windows XP, unless maybe you set up
alternative accounts.

I'm not sure how to disable sorting. Personally, I'm glad that
it finally sorts properly, but I understand if people use
Explorer differently.

Sparky understands... Sounds like Microsoft's attitude.

 

[BillW50]

In DevilsPGD typed:

It's renamed "Users" and has been for a few OSes now. Keep in mind
that you're coming from a very outdated version of Windows.

I've been using Windows 7 since July of 2009 and it was there. So I have
been dealing with this nonsense for over 3 years now and I still don't
like fake folders.

%userprofile%\Documents is there, although it's occasionally displayed
as "My Documents" instead. It doesn't actually live in the Library,
but rather, the Library includes the Documents folder.

Actually My Documents got moved to the Users folder like most of the
stuff from Documents and Settings. But it shows up in the Libraries. You
know before I ever heard of Libraries, I envisioned something that I
called virtual folders. And I thought that would be very cool. Although
Libraries is exactly the same thing as I envisioned. And guess what? Now
that I see them in reality, I hate them.

You don't, but nothing forces you to use it.

More useless things to burn CPU cycles on. What will they think of next?

Nothing has changed here, the Program Files directory still exists and
it supports properly written applications -- Any application written
to use the NT security model going back to the mid-90s (NT 3.x) will
continue to work fine. Program Files go into the Program Files
directory, data files go into the user profile.

Ah... the only thing I like (ok love) about NT is no common resource
limits. The rest of it is built for corporations. What do the rest of us
care? I still like My Documents, My Music, and My Pictures listed right
in the root directory. Why put them anywhere else on a one user machine?

If you need to write to this folder without administrative
permissions, you can set the permissions on the particular subfolder
to allow your user account (by name) to write to the folder.

Oh give me a break! A single user on a machine who takes full
responsibility doesn't need that crap. Too bad Microsoft doesn't have a
user level like it is my machine and butt out Microsoft.

Portable apps should not be installed into the Program Files, but
rather, into somewhere in your local profile.

Look! I don't think it is my responsibility to tell other where they
should put things on their own machines. By the same token, I don't
think it is right for anybody else to tell me where I want to put stuff.

This was necessary in XP too, unless you ran as Administrator at all
times.

I thought about not running as administrator for security reasons about
12 years ago. But I paused and waited for a real reason to do so. And I
am still waiting.

I'm not sure how to disable sorting. Personally, I'm glad that it
finally sorts properly, but I understand if people use Explorer
differently.

So many times I like it sorted by name, but anything new coming along at
the bottom of the list. So I have two sorts in one view. No longer
possible with anything newer than XP. This makes so many of my tasks so
much harder for me.

You mean as long as they are the new Microsoft way.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In DevilsPGD typed:

I've been using Windows 7 since July of 2009 and it was there. So I have
been dealing with this nonsense for over 3 years now and I still don't
like fake folders.

So don't use them. C:\Users is the correct folder, C:\Documents and
Settings is there for legacy applications who's developers were too lazy
or stupid to use the appropriate API to determine the correct folder,
and instead guessed at where user data was stored.

Actually My Documents got moved to the Users folder like most of the
stuff from Documents and Settings.

Everything from Documents and Settings was moved to Users. Absolutely
everything. Documents and Settings doesn't exist, except as a pointer.

But it shows up in the Libraries. You
know before I ever heard of Libraries, I envisioned something that I
called virtual folders. And I thought that would be very cool. Although
Libraries is exactly the same thing as I envisioned. And guess what? Now
that I see them in reality, I hate them.

So don't use them. Personally, I find them to be useful for certain
things (mainly bringing together certain folders that can't be trivially
moved from their own paths)

More useless things to burn CPU cycles on. What will they think of next?

Are you paying per cycle in any meaningful way? And if so, why are you
opening folders that you don't need/use and wasting CPU cycles on such
things?

Ah... the only thing I like (ok love) about NT is no common resource
limits. The rest of it is built for corporations. What do the rest of us
care? I still like My Documents, My Music, and My Pictures listed right
in the root directory. Why put them anywhere else on a one user machine?

Because security still matters, even on a single user machine. More
importantly, there really is no such thing as a single user machine, as
Windows runs it's own services under a different account than you do.

Look! I don't think it is my responsibility to tell other where they
should put things on their own machines. By the same token, I don't
think it is right for anybody else to tell me where I want to put stuff.

So write your own OS, or configure Windows to do what you want. Hint:
You can put whatever you want wherever you want, you just have to set
permissions up appropriately. Out of the box, Windows comes with a set
of moderately sane permissions that work for single user as well as
multiple user environments.

If you have different needs, absolutely nothing but a "Hey, this might
reduce security, are you sure?" dialog stops you.

 

[RayLopez99]

Although Classic Shell is a good choice, and it's free, in my view

Start8 (http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/), which costs only

$4.99 USD, is even better, and I strongly recommend it.

Thanks for this recommendation.

RL

 

[BillW50]

In DevilsPGD typed:

Are you paying per cycle in any meaningful way? And if so, why are you
opening folders that you don't need/use and wasting CPU cycles on such
things?

You got to be kidding? I am not talking about just Libraries, but
everything. I find it so odd that the masses are so fooled, that they
just don't see it. I have 30+ machines here and the results are always
the same. And Windows 7/8 always uses more CPU power at idle than XP
does. And it only gets worse when you want to get some work done.

Just look at a much of PC 3D games and their minimum hardware
requirements. And Vista/7/8 always requires a more beefy CPU than XP
does to run the same game. That is clue one! The second clue is when it
comes to youtube videos and DVD movies. I personally have found that
most XP machines with a single core processor (even a Celeron) of 400MHz
or better can pull it off well. Same is true for TV tuners as well.

But under Vista/7/8 even with a 2GHz single core processor, can't match
the performance of XP with a 400MHz Celeron when it comes to video
playback. You can see the effect from other things like web browsing
too. Sure you could use a single core with 7/8, I have a few machines
that are running them with a single core myself. But I am not happy with
the performance until you give it a dual core running at least 1.5GHz. I
say 1.5GHz because I don't have a dual core slower than that.

Heck I just purchased a machine from eBay and the seller stated it was a
Core Duo running Windows 7. As long as it wasn't a single core with
Windows 7, I could do something with it. Although when I got it, this
wasn't a Core Duo machine, but a Core Solo 1.2GHz machine. And just like
my past experience with Windows 7 with a single core, it can't even play
youtube videos at 30fps. As it plays many of them at about 8fps instead.
To say in the very least, I am not surprised it performs so poorly. Now
the seller hasn't commented on why he billed it as a Core Duo when in
fact it isn't. Since it has a Vista Business COA which allows
downgrading to XP, I threw a XP drive in it and that performs perfectly
on that machine. Nor did I expect anything differently.

 

[GMAN]

In DevilsPGD typed:

You got to be kidding? I am not talking about just Libraries, but
everything. I find it so odd that the masses are so fooled, that they
just don't see it. I have 30+ machines here and the results are always
the same. And Windows 7/8 always uses more CPU power at idle than XP
does. And it only gets worse when you want to get some work done.

Just look at a much of PC 3D games and their minimum hardware
requirements. And Vista/7/8 always requires a more beefy CPU than XP
does to run the same game. That is clue one! The second clue is when it
comes to youtube videos and DVD movies. I personally have found that
most XP machines with a single core processor (even a Celeron) of 400MHz
or better can pull it off well. Same is true for TV tuners as well.

But under Vista/7/8 even with a 2GHz single core processor, can't match
the performance of XP with a 400MHz Celeron when it comes to video
playback. You can see the effect from other things like web browsing
too. Sure you could use a single core with 7/8, I have a few machines
that are running them with a single core myself. But I am not happy with
the performance until you give it a dual core running at least 1.5GHz. I
say 1.5GHz because I don't have a dual core slower than that.

Heck I just purchased a machine from eBay and the seller stated it was a
Core Duo running Windows 7. As long as it wasn't a single core with
Windows 7, I could do something with it. Although when I got it, this
wasn't a Core Duo machine, but a Core Solo 1.2GHz machine. And just like
my past experience with Windows 7 with a single core, it can't even play
youtube videos at 30fps. As it plays many of them at about 8fps instead.
To say in the very least, I am not surprised it performs so poorly. Now
the seller hasn't commented on why he billed it as a Core Duo when in
fact it isn't. Since it has a Vista Business COA which allows
downgrading to XP, I threw a XP drive in it and that performs perfectly
on that machine. Nor did I expect anything differently.

I just got bit by this windows controlling MY access to MY files. I am tring
to move some files from my sons old hardrive that had Windows XP MCE 2005 ,
and it say i dont have permission!!!! (IT IS MY F^%KING pc!!!!!!!, not some
ahole programmer at MS!!)

 

[Paul]

I just got bit by this windows controlling MY access to MY files. I am tring
to move some files from my sons old hardrive that had Windows XP MCE 2005 ,
and it say i dont have permission!!!! (IT IS MY F^%KING pc!!!!!!!, not some
ahole programmer at MS!!)

Would "Take Ownership" solve the problem ?
See the sevenforums tutorial.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=<[email protected]>

Link:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1911-take-ownership-shortcut.html

Paul

 

[BillW50]

In Paul typed:

Would "Take Ownership" solve the problem ?
See the sevenforums tutorial.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=<[email protected]>

Link:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1911-take-ownership-shortcut.html

Paul

In a corporate environment, I can see the need for this. But when a home
user is denied access to their own files, I don't. I really don't see
the need for a home user to move up to guru status (or have a computer
science degree) just to access their own files.

 

[Alias]

And Windows 7/8 always uses more CPU power at idle than XP
does. And it only gets worse when you want to get some work done.

Which is why if you want to use a modern OS, you should use a modern
computer. Duh. I have XP and Windows 7 on the same duo core Intel with
2.5Ghz and 4 GB of PC-800 RAM and 7 is just as snappy as XP. The search
feature is a thousand times faster and much more effective.

 

[John Doe]

Would "Take Ownership" solve the problem ?

Probably, but it depends on the situation. I have a situation
where Windows 8 prevents me from writing to files unless I am
logged in as the "elevated" administrator. It's a crock. Microsoft
has no right "owning" ordinary PC users' files. There should at
least be some easy way to remove the prohibited access garbage.
Microsoft holding my hand is like a blind person leading me across
a busy street. Microsoft ineptly taking control away from personal
computer users has been in the works for a long time. Don't be
surprised if it gets worse.

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