Why are so many people threatened by Vista?

[Kerry Brown]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a place
where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even previous
versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how bad Vista is.
There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this group in
particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come to the
conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista. Why else would
they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It would be much
easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS. If Vista is
really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need to look at
Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls is: Why is
Vista so threatening to you?

 

[Malcolm H]

I've been using it for a few days and, after initial disappointment (for
the wrong reasons), I think it is fantastic!

I am particularly impressed with the backup and partitioning utilities and
consider the usability to be a considerable advance over XP..

MPH

 

[Frankly, my dear]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a
place where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even
previous versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about
how bad Vista is. There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup
but this group in particular seems to have far more than normal. I
can only come to the conclusion that these people are somehow
threatened by Vista. Why else would they feel the need to denigrate
it with such vehemence?

My reading is that it's the kinder-geek brigade.
You know, the ones who exhibit hyperactive, childish excitement at the
announcement of a new OS - pissing their pants in anticipation.
They pre-order 12 months in advance - and get shafted on the price (I think
admen call it 'creaming off') which is held high for the first six weeks.
This of course, sets things up for a massive tumble.
Having foregone the PS3 they'd promised themselves (to pay for the damn
thing) and swallowing the mountain of marketing hype - they're expecting
nothing less than the World.
Any little thing goes wrong and they throw a major hissy fit.
They bought first-buyer's bragging rights and now they've got nothing to
brag about.
Indignant proto-geek throws dummy out of the pram.


It would be much easier to ignore it and

 

[John E]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a place
where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even previous
versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how bad Vista
is. There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this group in
particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come to the
conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista. Why else
would they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It would be
much easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS. If Vista
is really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need to look at
Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls is: Why is
Vista so threatening to you?

I hope I'm not a troll, but I have a suggestion:

I suspect that the problem is that Vista is a compromise solution.

On one hand there are the computer hobbyists, who like to have 100% control
over their machine, and Vista appears to take that away from them in things
like 'automatic upgrades', 'automatic driver installation' and a defrag
which is best run in the background and gives little feedback on what it is
doing (Does anyone know if it can defragment metadata, for instance?).

At the other extreme are those people who think a computer should operate
like a TV. Some intial setting up (taking not more than 10 minutes) and from
then on, it just works, with no further user intervention.

I'm sure that many people are between these extremes, but in a kind of
spectrum from one extreme to the other.

Vista does what it does. It satisfies the TV/appliance people to some
extent, but they soon become frustrated when some needed driver doesn't
appear automatically. It satisfies the hobbyists to some extent, but they
become irritated by what they see as nannying behaviour.

I'm sure that Microsoft has done its best to satisfy as many people as
possible. But in answer to your question, I think that what is essentially a
unified approach is going to annoy a lot of people. (Yes I do know there are
a few different versions, but the differences are not the 'spectrum' of
minor differences which will suit everyone's particular requirements).

Personally, I'm a hobbyist, with plenty of time on my hands (I'm retired)
and I am enjoying finding out about Vista. It is fairly solid on my system,
and I am looking forward to the time (hopefully in a few weeks) when the
last device driver is developed, and everything is working properly.)

John

 

[Alan]

Hi Kerry,

I'm not sure that people feel 'threatened' (good use of stuff learned in
Pysch 101 there, by the way :> ) by Vista as much as they might be trying
to warn people to save their money and not blow it on an O/S that's not yet
quite ready for prime time.

You mention Window ME and how the marketplace rejected it. Well, the poor
schmucks who did upgrade to Window ME back then lost less than $100 to
upgrade to a lousy O/S.

Now, perhaps, people are advising others who MIGHT be considering shelling
out a LOT more money for Vista upgrades to save both their money.....and
their sanity.

Alan

 

[Adam Leinss]

I can only come to the conclusion that these people are somehow
threatened by Vista. Why else would they feel the need to denigrate it
with such vehemence?

Part of the problem Microsoft bought on themselves. The anti-piracy
features (SPP) are quite annoying and now volume licensing users have to
deal with it. There was also a big deal over the one time transfer of
Windows Vista until Microsoft backed down after complaints.

Perhaps this explains it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista

Adam

 

[Alias]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a
place where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even
previous versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how
bad Vista is. There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this
group in particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come
to the conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista. Why
else would they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It
would be much easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS.
If Vista is really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need
to look at Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls
is: Why is Vista so threatening to you?

Threatened? How can an OS threaten anyone?

Alias

 

[Adam Albright]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a place
where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even previous
versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how bad Vista is.
There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this group in
particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come to the
conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista.

How many trolls have MVP behind their name?

For any MVP to even start a thread like this is SHAMEFUL and I assure
your will likely get the attention of someone in Redmond.

You see the more experienced usenet posters,(obviously not you) have
seen it all before and far more clearly than those evangelizing for
Vista, which seems to be a requirement to the current crop of
Microsoft shills, oops... I mean a MVP's and those wishing to become
one.

Why else would they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It would be much
easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS. If Vista is
really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need to look at
Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls is: Why is
Vista so threatening to you?

My answer to your question, more your childish and totally
inappropriate rant, is why can't you be objective?

Let me explain life to you Kerry, since you seem to have a distorted
view where the Microsoft sun always shines brightly.

1. Most people that visit this newsgroup likely are already Windows
users and either already have purchased Vista or are considering
doing so.

2. People that have already purchased Vista like to discuss issues
that they have run into both installing and using Vista. The
people that are sitting on the fence and trying to make up their
minds if they are going to upgrade now or wait awhile appreciate
those that have already taken the plunge discussing what problems
they've run into and also what features they like and those they
don't like.

3. It may come as a shock to some MVP's who are often seen as
apologists, but I can tell you Microsoft actually encourages
a open discussion of its products in these newsgroups as opposed to
MVP's simply being cheer leaders.

4. Vista has flaws. All new versions of Windows do, always have,
always will. That's par for course for all software, more so for
operating systems. Simply because experienced users point out
problems doesn't mean they don't like Vista or that they are
attacking it or are somehow "jealous" of it or feel threatened by
it. That's really over the top Kerry.

5. Your job and obviously you and some other MVP's have forgot, isn't
to blindly support Microsoft or cheer for Vista and label those
that raise real issues as trolls. Your function is TO HELP people.
All too often the same MVP's rant, rave and look down on posters,
who are as I said previously mostly Microsoft customers.

I can assure you Microsoft executives (I know some) do NOT appreciate
MVP's running amok. In short what I'm reminding you of, remember your
place. You're just a volunteer. You are not a employee and you're not
expected to just be a apple polisher.

Be objective and try to help people if you can. If you can't, maybe
its time for you and other uptight MVP's also showing signs of stress
to take a break, because it sounds like you suffering from burn-out.

There will always be somebody that knows as much likely more to pick
up the slack, so no, you won't be missed and I won't be missed either
when I get tired of posting. That's just life. I understand these
things, apparently you don't or have fogetten.

 

[Unicorn]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a
place where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even
previous versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how
bad Vista is. There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this
group in particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come
to the conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista. Why
else would they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It
would be much easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS.
If Vista is really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need
to look at Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls
is: Why is Vista so threatening to you?

I can only guess Kerry, and speak for myself.

Personally I am horrified at the price. Whilst most things IT have to
some extent come down is price, the cost of a Microsoft operating system
has grown from around 10-15% of the price of a consumer PC to around
40-50 of the same consumer type PC. In the same time (around 10 years)
Microsoft products have become less and less compliant with industry
standards and more and more compliant with Microsoft's own proprietary
standards. The licencing terms have also become more and more
restrictive. Personally I am afraid of Microsoft. I used to be one of
their most ardent supporters, and still have to admit that their
products are exemplary from the user perspective. Having said that I am
actively seeking alternatives to both the operating system and the
office suite.

I am doing this because Microsoft is not being realistic about their
pricing (making 75c profit for every dollar spent on an operating system
sounds just a little excessive to me) and I can not justify this to
myself or others. Add to this fact that Microsoft is incapable of
offering a licence agreement that is decipherable to anyone, including
their own staff and we have a shambles. I have seen two web casts by
Microsoft employees that contradict on licencing issues in the past week
alone.

Vista is the culmination of many things to many people. To me it is like
a final insult in a 10 year old gripe. The splitting of the O/s into a
smorgasboard of slightly different flavours is just the icing on the
cake. Aero is the big selling point to home users. But will it run?
Even on that new Dell you just bought? Which Vista does the average
person want, need, use?

The advertising of "the wow starts now" is perhaps the most accurate I
have seen. The average response is;

1 WOW they want how much for that!
2 WOW which one should I buy?
3 WOW I have no idea!
4 WOW better just buy a new computer! The sub $1000 dell advertised
comes with vista and the O/S is nearly a $1000 by itself. I am sure
that Dell know better than I do.

Matt

 

[Eric]

Hi Kerry,

I'm not sure that people feel 'threatened' (good use of stuff learned in
Pysch 101 there, by the way :> ) by Vista as much as they might be
trying to warn people to save their money and not blow it on an O/S that's
not yet quite ready for prime time.

You mention Window ME and how the marketplace rejected it. Well, the poor
schmucks who did upgrade to Window ME back then lost less than $100 to
upgrade to a lousy O/S.

Now, perhaps, people are advising others who MIGHT be considering shelling
out a LOT more money for Vista upgrades to save both their money.....and
their sanity.

Alan

I actually use WinME now, and I didn't waste any money on it. I got it with
a new PC about 5 years ago, and a copy of Win98 would have been the same
price. Upgrading would have been a waste. I don't think anyone should be
upgrading to Vista at this time, but it seems to be the way to go if you're
buying a new PC, though I'd try to wait as long as possible up to a year or
two on buying a new PC with Vista until the patches and newer drivers are
released.

 

[Mike G]

A prime example of what Kerry was talking about.

 

[Guest]

Kerry,

I do agree with you that this newsgroup has become a breeding place for
trolls. I come here to learn as much as I can about Vista. It's amazing to
me all that I have gained from this newsgroup! But lately when I visit it's
like signing in for the daily whine! I find myself skipping any thread that
even remotely sounds like a complaint.

I like Vista and really have had very minimal problems with it (ATI). I do
realize that some people are not ready for Vista; either with their PC
capabilities or their mind-set. I think it's the right OS for most of the
world. You know; the people that just want to turn on and go! To the
others; just wait if your not sure or patient. It will only get better!

 

[Michael Jennings]

Threatened? How can an OS threaten anyone?

Alias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25

 

[Adam Albright]

Threatened? How can an OS threaten anyone?

Alias

As anybody that spends just 30 minutes in any Microsoft "support"
group knows those with MVP behind their name are often:

1. Way too often ill tempered.

2. Always trying to be Net cops.

3. Generally apologists for Microsoft.

4. If they bother to "help" its often cut and paste
useless drivel or incomplete or technically inaccurate.

5. On some never ending ego trip, uptight and defensive.

They are fun to play with thought. <wink>

The reality is MVP's often feel threatend from the legions of posters
that pop in and out of these groups that aren't and would never want
to be MVP's that usually known why more then they do.

Sorry, about time somebody said it.

 

[Kevin Wilcox]

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a place
where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even previous
versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how bad Vista is.
There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this group in
particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come to the
conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista. Why else would
they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It would be much
easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS. If Vista is
really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need to look at
Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls is: Why is
Vista so threatening to you?

The source of this groups problems appears to be this guy

-------> Roy Schestowitz <-------------

www.schestowitz.com

http://groups.google.com/groups/pro...WpyzVaW0aq-bp9NGnjj6y1UsWUZHxqbrtGgkPow&hl=en

It appears that he has ramped up his somewhat prolific posting habits
shortly before the release of Vista and he has been on some kind of a
campaign for Linux and against Vista.

He is also behind the Boycott Novell because they signed a deal with
Microsoft campaign.

http://www.boycottnovell.com/

Some people claim he is being paid by Microsoft, I don't really know but
we Linux users have him filtered so we don't have to read his noise.

Kevin Wilcox

 

[mikeyhsd]

my question is who is behind the encouraging the posts.

I would suspect the vendors who are screaming long and high about being locked out of vista.
you can get agitators for any cause/


(e-mail address removed)@sport.rr.com

Since Vista has been released this newsgroup has deteriorated from a place
where people get help to a place where Linux, Mac, and even previous
versions of Windows trolls endlessly post diatribes about how bad Vista is.
There are always a few trolls in every newsgroup but this group in
particular seems to have far more than normal. I can only come to the
conclusion that these people are somehow threatened by Vista. Why else would
they feel the need to denigrate it with such vehemence? It would be much
easier to ignore it and continue using their favourite OS. If Vista is
really that bad the marketplace will reject it. We only need to look at
Windows Me to see this is true. My question to all the trolls is: Why is
Vista so threatening to you?

 

[Adam Albright]

A prime example of what Kerry was talking about.

Did I mention there are also a lot of sheep in this newsgroup that
blindly follow anything some MVP says no matter what?

Here's a radical thought, I like to decide things for myself. Try it
sometime. A real eye opening experience.

 

[Kue2]

Way to go John! Excellent comments.

I hope I'm not a troll, but I have a suggestion:

I suspect that the problem is that Vista is a compromise solution.

On one hand there are the computer hobbyists, who like to have 100%
control over their machine, and Vista appears to take that away from them
in things like 'automatic upgrades', 'automatic driver installation' and a
defrag which is best run in the background and gives little feedback on
what it is doing (Does anyone know if it can defragment metadata, for
instance?).

At the other extreme are those people who think a computer should operate
like a TV. Some intial setting up (taking not more than 10 minutes) and
from then on, it just works, with no further user intervention.

I'm sure that many people are between these extremes, but in a kind of
spectrum from one extreme to the other.

Vista does what it does. It satisfies the TV/appliance people to some
extent, but they soon become frustrated when some needed driver doesn't
appear automatically. It satisfies the hobbyists to some extent, but they
become irritated by what they see as nannying behaviour.

I'm sure that Microsoft has done its best to satisfy as many people as
possible. But in answer to your question, I think that what is essentially
a unified approach is going to annoy a lot of people. (Yes I do know there
are a few different versions, but the differences are not the 'spectrum'
of minor differences which will suit everyone's particular requirements).

Personally, I'm a hobbyist, with plenty of time on my hands (I'm retired)
and I am enjoying finding out about Vista. It is fairly solid on my
system, and I am looking forward to the time (hopefully in a few weeks)
when the last device driver is developed, and everything is working
properly.)

John

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Adam

You goad and taunt..

How many trolls have MVP behind their name?

For any MVP to even start a thread like this is SHAMEFUL and I assure
your will likely get the attention of someone in Redmond.

You see the more experienced usenet posters,(obviously not you) have
seen it all before and far more clearly than those evangelizing for
Vista, which seems to be a requirement to the current crop of
Microsoft shills, oops... I mean a MVP's and those wishing to become
one.


My answer to your question, more your childish and totally
inappropriate rant, is why can't you be objective?

Let me explain life to you Kerry, since you seem to have a distorted
view where the Microsoft sun always shines brightly.

1. Most people that visit this newsgroup likely are already Windows
users and either already have purchased Vista or are considering
doing so.

2. People that have already purchased Vista like to discuss issues
that they have run into both installing and using Vista. The
people that are sitting on the fence and trying to make up their
minds if they are going to upgrade now or wait awhile appreciate
those that have already taken the plunge discussing what problems
they've run into and also what features they like and those they
don't like.

3. It may come as a shock to some MVP's who are often seen as
apologists, but I can tell you Microsoft actually encourages
a open discussion of its products in these newsgroups as opposed to
MVP's simply being cheer leaders.

4. Vista has flaws. All new versions of Windows do, always have,
always will. That's par for course for all software, more so for
operating systems. Simply because experienced users point out
problems doesn't mean they don't like Vista or that they are
attacking it or are somehow "jealous" of it or feel threatened by
it. That's really over the top Kerry.

5. Your job and obviously you and some other MVP's have forgot, isn't
to blindly support Microsoft or cheer for Vista and label those
that raise real issues as trolls. Your function is TO HELP people.
All too often the same MVP's rant, rave and look down on posters,
who are as I said previously mostly Microsoft customers.

I can assure you Microsoft executives (I know some) do NOT appreciate
MVP's running amok. In short what I'm reminding you of, remember your
place. You're just a volunteer. You are not a employee and you're not
expected to just be a apple polisher.

Be objective and try to help people if you can. If you can't, maybe
its time for you and other uptight MVP's also showing signs of stress
to take a break, because it sounds like you suffering from burn-out.

There will always be somebody that knows as much likely more to pick
up the slack, so no, you won't be missed and I won't be missed either
when I get tired of posting. That's just life. I understand these
things, apparently you don't or have fogetten.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Mike G]

....and example #2

Did I mention there are also a lot of sheep in this newsgroup that
blindly follow anything some MVP says no matter what?

Here's a radical thought, I like to decide things for myself. Try it
sometime. A real eye opening experience.