Where Are Those New HP "Plus" Inks?

[Fred McKenzie]

My HP 450 does a beautiful job as a portable printer. However, the ink
washes off even after several weeks of drying. As someone else mentioned,
you could wash the paper in plain water, iron it and use it again!

I read here several months ago, that HP had a new line of "Plus" inks that
offered improvements. For my HP 450, I see that HP's web site lists an
"HP 57 Plus Tri-Color Inkjet Print Cartridge with Vivera Inks,
CB278AN#140". However, none of the local office supply stores have it.
Office Depot didn't know what I was talking about. Staples has one Plus
cartridge for a different printer.

So when are these inks going to be available to the general public? Is
the HP web site the only place that sells it yet?

Fred

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

I read here several months ago, that HP had a new line of "Plus" inks that
offered improvements. For my HP 450, I see that HP's web site lists an
"HP 57 Plus Tri-Color Inkjet Print Cartridge with Vivera Inks,
CB278AN#140". However, none of the local office supply stores have it.
Office Depot didn't know what I was talking about. Staples has one Plus
cartridge for a different printer.

So when are these inks going to be available to the general public? Is
the HP web site the only place that sells it yet?

Fred

Best Buy has had the 57+ tank, along with several others, for about
five months now. They often get technology half a year or more (They
had the Epson R340 for 9 months ahead of any other store) before it's
available to the general public. I think this is a lousy marketing
technique, and also quite stupid, as HP is losing millions in
potential sales to people who don't like, or simply don't /have/ a
Best Buy anywhere near them. Best Buy only sells inks for printers it
carries in-store, and it doesn't have a very good selection, so not
many people would think of going there to buy ink in the first place.

I believe it's a full size cartridge, 17 ml

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[Bob Headrick]

My HP 450 does a beautiful job as a portable printer. However, the
ink
washes off even after several weeks of drying. As someone else
mentioned,
you could wash the paper in plain water, iron it and use it again!

What kind of paper are you printing on? What driver settings? The
black ink is pigmented and very resistant to water. If you are printing
on photo paper you can probably find a paper that is much more resistant
to washing than the paper you are currently using. There is generally a
tradeoff between lightfastness waterfastness and image quality. I have
seen photo's printed with HP #57 cartridges dunked in hot coffee without
noticeable degradation when printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro. The
tradeoff with that combination is that the fade resistance is poor and
the images do not have the same detail and clarity as when printed on HP
Premium Plus paper for example.

I read here several months ago, that HP had a new line of "Plus" inks
that
offered improvements.

The Vivera inks have better lightfastness (about 2x) but are similar for
waterfastness. You can order these directly from the HP website if you
cannot find them locally. See:
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?product_code=CB278AN#140&aoid=32861

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Fred McKenzie]

What kind of paper are you printing on? What driver settings? The
black ink is pigmented and very resistant to water. If you are printing
on photo paper you can probably find a paper that is much more resistant
to washing than the paper you are currently using.

Bob-

The paper I'm currently using is a Premium HP presentation Paper, Q5449A.
Previously I used HP Premium Inkjet Paper 51634Y, some generic "coated"
inkjet paper and some plain copy paper. I don't recall which one I used
for my dunking tests, but it was impressive how completely the ink was
removed by plain water.

I use the default driver settings except where you specify paper type. I
found that if I chose "Premium HP Inkjet Paper" photographs would look
weak, so I specified HP Premium Photo Paper, Matte, and they look great
with well saturated color.

I'm glad to hear that the black ink (56) is pigmented. That explains why
there wasn't a 56 Plus cartridge listed at the HP web site. But what
about the 58 photo cartridge? Is its black also pigmented? I have a 58
cartridge, but am waiting for the black (56) to run out before trying it.

Fred

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Bob-

The paper I'm currently using is a Premium HP presentation Paper, Q5449A.
Previously I used HP Premium Inkjet Paper 51634Y, some generic "coated"
inkjet paper and some plain copy paper. I don't recall which one I used
for my dunking tests, but it was impressive how completely the ink was
removed by plain water.

I'm not so sure about the 56 being any more resistant to water than
the 57 or 58. Someone I know tried making a bumper sticker with it on
Office Depot bumper sticker paper, and it melted immediately under
water. HP has that 'Advanced' paper out, 92 bright/20 lb that's
supposedly very waterproof and smudge resistant but... 20 lb paper is
pretty flimsy and useless for double sided printing. None of their
more expensive papers make any claim towards water resistance - you'd
think that if the lower end one has it then the premium ones would as
well. Strange.

I use the default driver settings except where you specify paper type. I
found that if I chose "Premium HP Inkjet Paper" photographs would look
weak, so I specified HP Premium Photo Paper, Matte, and they look great
with well saturated color.

I'm glad to hear that the black ink (56) is pigmented. That explains why
there wasn't a 56 Plus cartridge listed at the HP web site. But what
about the 58 photo cartridge? Is its black also pigmented? I have a 58
cartridge, but am waiting for the black (56) to run out before trying it.

Fred

The 58 tank contains dyebased black, not pigment, because pigment
black + dyebased colors for photos looks bad. Anyplace where the
printer uses black ink on glossy paper will come out matte (Epson's
pigment photo printers have /all/ the colors as pigment so there's not
a glaring visual difference, the lower end ones require special paper
to be glossy, the higher end ones have a gloss coating tank). The idea
is that using the 56 black and 57 color is good for general document
printing to make nice sharp text. If you're switching to photo
printing, you take out the black and put in the 58, which adds two
colors and dyebased black which looks much better, but is rather
expensive to use for general document printing. The 57 Plus makes
three colors into Vivera ink, which increases the lightfastness and
vibrancy. I don't think the 58 cartridge is Vivera, which kind of
defeats the whole purpose of having the 57 Plus, since only half of
the color in the print will contain the better ink. So far, there is
no 58+ tank, though I'm sure they'll do it eventually.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[Bob Headrick]

I'm glad to hear that the black ink (56) is pigmented. That explains
why
there wasn't a 56 Plus cartridge listed at the HP web site. But what
about the 58 photo cartridge? Is its black also pigmented? I have a
58
cartridge, but am waiting for the black (56) to run out before trying
it.

The #58 cartridge is dye based black, light cyan and light magenta.

For text or B&W line drawings you would want to use the 56 cartridge.
The #58 cartridge is designed for photo printing, where it gives

If you specify photo paper in the driver the printer will not use
pigmented ink to print black as the pigmented ink is not compatible with
photo papers. If you are printing photo's with the #56 and 57
cartridges installed only the color cartridge will be used. Black print
will be made by mixing CM&Y. With the #58 and 57 cartridges installed
you will get better contrast in black areas as well as less grain in
light areas such as faces or sky prints.

I believe the #58 cartridge includes a holder to properly store the #56
black cartridge while you are using the photo cartridge.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Bob Headrick]

I don't think the 58 cartridge is Vivera, which kind of
defeats the whole purpose of having the 57 Plus, since only half
of the color in the print will contain the better ink. So far, there
is no 58+ tank, though I'm sure they'll do it eventually.

Actually the #58 cartridge already has "better" ink. According to
Wilhelm research using Premium Plus paper and the #56/57 cartridges
gives 15 years vs. 73 years for the #57/58 combination. See
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hp/hp_5550.html.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Fred McKenzie]

....... I have
seen photo's printed with HP #57 cartridges dunked in hot coffee without
noticeable degradation when printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro. The
tradeoff with that combination is that the fade resistance is poor and
the images do not have the same detail and clarity as when printed on HP
Premium Plus paper for example.

Bob-

I tried another test, but using the Premium HP presentation Paper,
Q5449A. I used a photo that had been printed a couple of weeks ago using
the "Premium HP Inkjet Paper" setting.

With this combination, the ink was affected, but did not run as it had on
the earlier test. There was a slight amount of ink that bled onto the
margin, but you have to look close to see it. It was a little worse with
medium-hot water, but still nowhere as bad as the earlier test. Clearly
the paper does make a difference.

Fred

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Fenrir Enterprises wrote:

Best Buy only sells inks for printers it

carries in-store, and it doesn't have a very good selection, so not
many people would think of going there to buy ink in the first place.

I believe it's a full size cartridge, 17 ml

Hi, Fenrir.

Just a friendly correction: the Best Buy store nearest to me carries a
larger range of HP inks. For example, they've got all four cartridges
for my 850 and 940 machines (although one was out-of-stock). Maybe this
depends on the store.

I try to stay out of the place; I value my hearing and I'm not inclined
to have my ears blasted into my brains -- uh, brain.

Richard

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Fenrir Enterprises wrote:

Best Buy only sells inks for printers it

Hi, Fenrir.

Just a friendly correction: the Best Buy store nearest to me carries a
larger range of HP inks. For example, they've got all four cartridges
for my 850 and 940 machines (although one was out-of-stock). Maybe this
depends on the store.

...bit of a delayed reply there. Best Buy in my area has started
carrying more ink, but it's still not nearly as good a selection as
any of the major office supply stores. And it's usually a few bucks
more.

I try to stay out of the place; I value my hearing and I'm not inclined
to have my ears blasted into my brains -- uh, brain.

Richard

The two in my area are pretty bad overall in service and in knowledge.
I've seen employees tell people they don't carry an item that's
sitting there on the shelf. Or they'll tell them horribly bad ideas to
do to 'fix' their computer. District office needs to send more secret
shoppers - if I was a manager and I saw an employee miss a sale like
that he'd be out the door. If you don't know, you find someone who
does.

--

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[Lou]

..bit of a delayed reply there. Best Buy in my area has started
carrying more ink, but it's still not nearly as good a selection as
any of the major office supply stores. And it's usually a few bucks
more.


The two in my area are pretty bad overall in service and in knowledge.
I've seen employees tell people they don't carry an item that's
sitting there on the shelf. Or they'll tell them horribly bad ideas to
do to 'fix' their computer. District office needs to send more secret
shoppers - if I was a manager and I saw an employee miss a sale like
that he'd be out the door. If you don't know, you find someone who
does.

--

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

BB does have a test before hiring.

Pulse and body warm = OK to hire.

Lou
I eat my peas with honey.
I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny.
But it keeps them on my knife.