What's in a chipset?

E

Eric C

I have an integrated video motherboard that has specific
recommendations for video cards that should work with it. One of the
recommendations is an MSI GeForce FX 5200 card. I don't know much about
the industry, but it seems that there are all kinds of GeForce FX 5200
cards out there and it is an NVIDIA chipset. But every company has some
card that is based on this chipset. What's up with that? I guess I'm
asking if I can get another card besides the MSI card and still have it
work the same in my motherboard? Is the magic in the chipset, or does
each manufacturer change the card enough to make a difference? Thanks.
 
K

kony

I have an integrated video motherboard that has specific
recommendations for video cards that should work with it.

What make and model of motherboard?

Usually (almost always?) the recommendations are merely what
they have tested, not in any way a comprehensive list of
what will work.

One of the
recommendations is an MSI GeForce FX 5200 card. I don't know much about
the industry, but it seems that there are all kinds of GeForce FX 5200
cards out there and it is an NVIDIA chipset.


What is the goal of this upgrade? It certainly depends on
what you're needing the video card for, but for general
purpose uses any integrated video with DDR main (system)
memory is fast enough. For gaming, FX5200 is certainly
faster, but relative to most video cards, rather slow at 3D
games.
But every company has some
card that is based on this chipset. What's up with that?

In order to cut prices, many companies product different
versions for different price points. Some may have slightly
different clock speeds. Some maybe DVI ports. Some have
twice as much memory. Some have faster memory. Some have
128 bit memory bus instead of 64 bit... at least I "think"
some do, frankly I've not tried to spec out a 5200 towards a
performance gain as it wasn't ever a performance leader even
in the middle-price range.
I guess I'm
asking if I can get another card besides the MSI card and still have it
work the same in my motherboard? Is the magic in the chipset, or does
each manufacturer change the card enough to make a difference? Thanks.

No it's not magic in the chipset, the manufacturer matters
not either. You can buy any standard card that is
compatible with the available slot, for example AGP 8X cards
generally work in AGP 4X slots, or if you have no AGP slot,
any PCI card. However, in many systems with integrated
video, the power supply can be limiting, as such systems are
often built to meet low price-points and only providing a
little margin in the power supply is one way to do that.

Further such systems may have downsized cases and/or poorer
airflow... which might be arguably reasonable since they
produce less heat, but another potential issue when adding a
part with high heat density such as a video card. An FX5200
won't product near as much heat as many though, and likewise
uses less power than many.

So the short answer is, no you dont' have to go with MSI or
an FX5200, but what is appropriate for your needs we cannot
say without more detail about the goal of the upgrade, and
further a general system description such as motherboard,
CPU, memory, might help determine the most cost effective
series of card, ie- there's no point in buying a $300 gaming
video card for a 4 year old system even if the goal were
gaming.
 
D

DaveW

You can safely use ANY brand of GeForce 5200 card. They all use the same
Nvidia chipset.
 
E

Eric C

Thanks for all of the info, it was a great help.

The point of the upgrade is that I wish to buy the ATI HDTV Wonder, but
it requires a video card that supports DirectX9.0. I already bought an
AGP 8x video card (XGI Volari V3), and it works, mostly, but it has
some problems (DVI interface unstable, resume from standby freezes
computer, doesn't work with Linux). That's when I checked the specs on
my motherboard (FoxConn SiS 760GXK8MB-RS) and saw the recommended
cards. As you said, they showed the cards that were tested, others
should theoretically work.

I realize I'll probably also have to upgrade my CPU. I have a Sempron
3100+.

I didn't even think about the power supply. It's only 300 Watts. I
guess I should try to stick with the integrated video (I think it can
actually do DirectX 9.0, although it doesn't have a DVI output for my
LCD and it uses shared memory) in order to keep the power down with the
HDTV PCI card too. Any suggestions?
 
K

kony

Thanks for all of the info, it was a great help.

The point of the upgrade is that I wish to buy the ATI HDTV Wonder, but
it requires a video card that supports DirectX9.0.

I'm not at all fond of ATI's TV oriented products because
their drivers seem problematic, but even so if you want one
then you might buy it and go from there. Perhaps it would
work if you merely had DirectX 9c (available from
Microsoft's website, you'll need it anyway if your system
isn't running it yet) installed first. Many TV tuner cards
will work with integrated video. If there is another HDTV
card you were considering, you might check on it's
requirements as they may be more relaxed.
I already bought an
AGP 8x video card (XGI Volari V3), and it works, mostly, but it has
some problems (DVI interface unstable, resume from standby freezes
computer, doesn't work with Linux).

Unfortunately it seems XGI hasn't been in the PC card market
long enough, hasn't put enough work into drivers, or it
could simply be that their products aren't tested as much by
others (or a combination of these factors), such that they
aren't a good choice for most purposes.
That's when I checked the specs on
my motherboard (FoxConn SiS 760GXK8MB-RS) and saw the recommended
cards. As you said, they showed the cards that were tested, others
should theoretically work.

Well they tested them, but almost certainly not with the
drivers you'd use today, nor against use with other products
like the ATI HDTV card... so they can only be sure what
limited things they did test, worked (0r didn't). It could
even be that another card does better than FX5200 for your
purposes... this is an unknown variable.

I realize I'll probably also have to upgrade my CPU. I have a Sempron
3100+.

Why do you feel you'd need this? There is no need to
upgrade to watch TV. For recording, I can't say if it is
enough for high resolution encoding of any particular
format, but this is something that could wait till after
you'd tried the HDTV card to see the results in your
intended uses.

I didn't even think about the power supply. It's only 300 Watts. I
guess I should try to stick with the integrated video (I think it can
actually do DirectX 9.0, although it doesn't have a DVI output for my
LCD and it uses shared memory) in order to keep the power down with the
HDTV PCI card too. Any suggestions?

Shared memory can do ok, up to a certain resolution- I don't
know what res. your LCD uses natively. The PSU could be
an issue, or might be ok, depends a bit on it's quality and
how power hungry the video card is.

Since the HDTV card is by ATI, I would try an ATI video card
as that might increase the odds in your favor- the HDTV card
is bound to have a few bugs, that's just typical and with an
ATI video card I think your odds are better not because the
ATI video card is better, only that they are more likely to
have tested more with their own products. I'd suggest
something like a Radeon 9600, not the Pro or XT version as
they are higher clocked, more power hungry and produce more
heat. One with a DVI connector of course. If your case has
poor airflow, it might be prudent to get one with a fan, as
many of the lower-speed (per base model #) cards had
passive, fanless heatsinks which might run rather hot in a
case with poor airflow... or perhaps your airflow is fine,
we can't see this variable.

On the other hand, Linux can be an issue too. I don't know
if ATI has viable Linux drivers, in the past nVidia had the
better support IIRC. An FX5200 (cheapest one you can find
is probably least heat-producing and power hungry, based on
slower variables for the speed and memory as I'd mentioned
previously), or an FX5700 LE, not plain FX5700 or GT version
as thoese latter two also use more power, more heat.
 
E

Eric C

Thanks again for your help, you make some good points. I have read that
I need better video card and processor for HDTV viewing and recording
but it's worth trying first. I'm not that interested in the highest
resolution right now, mostly just SDTV would be fine. My monitor is
1280x1024 native resolution. Eventually I want to record material and
take it to an HDTV, but even that will be for a small HDTV. I have 512
MB of memory, so maybe that is enough for integrated video.
 
K

kony

Thanks again for your help, you make some good points. I have read that
I need better video card and processor for HDTV viewing and recording
but it's worth trying first. I'm not that interested in the highest
resolution right now, mostly just SDTV would be fine. My monitor is
1280x1024 native resolution. Eventually I want to record material and
take it to an HDTV, but even that will be for a small HDTV. I have 512
MB of memory, so maybe that is enough for integrated video.


Assuming your integrated video driver is working properly,
it should be fine for viewing. Even a much older
instegrated video can view fine, because it's an overlay
that has no particular CPU or video performance needs, only
that the memory for the video be fast enough for the
resolution your monitor uses, which at 1280x1024, would mean
PC133 might be marginally too slow but any more modern DDR
memory based video, especially dual channel memory
architectured integrated video, has no trouble at 1280x1024.

Encoding HD is definitely the major issue. It might do
MPEG2 fine, I'd expect it would, but MPEG4, I doubt it at
full resolution.
 

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