What is the best way to set up this kind of formatting?


W

William.Gunn

I have read Mrs. Kelly's extensive and helpful documentation on using
styles, and I now have my bullets and headings set up as she
recommends, cascading and working as they should. What I'd like to do
is set up the following formatting, and I can do it with no problem
thanks to her advice, but I'm not sure which is the best way to proceed
so that everyone I'll be sending this to will see the same formatting.


Here's the question: I need 4 levels of headings. Heading 1 is one
word, bold. Heading 2 is one sentence, bold. Heading 3 is a
paragraph, of which only the first sentence is bold and the rest is
styled like body text. Should I direct format the first sentence of
Heading 3, or is there a way to set up the paragraph style for heading
three such that all paragraphs of heading 3 style will have the first
sentence bold and the rest styled like body text?


Here's an example of the structure I'm going for, in case it isn't
clear above. (side question:does google groups allow any kind of
mark-up?)

<b>A - Top-level section Heading</b>
<b>A.1.</b> <b>Second level section heading</b>
<b>A.1.1</b> <b>First sentence of this section.</b> The rest of the
text in this paragraph, styled as body text, would go here. I've got a
couple sentences here. After that, I have another paragraph, formatted
just like this one.
<b>A.1.2.</b><b>The First sentence of this section</b> The rest of the
text, body text style.The rest of the text in this paragraph, styled as
body text, would go here. I've got a couple sentences here. After
that, I have another paragraph, formatted just like this one.
<b>A.1.3.</b><b><b>The First sentence of this section</b> The rest of
the text, body text style.The rest of the text in this paragraph,
styled as body text, would go here. I've got a couple sentences here.
After that, I have another paragraph, formatted just like this one.
<b>B - Top level section heading</b>
<b>B.1.</b> <b>Second level section heading</b>
<b>B.1.1</b> <b>First sentence of this section.</b> The rest of the
text in this paragraph, styled as body text, would go here. I've got a
couple sentences here. After that, I have another paragraph, formatted
just like this one.
<b>B.1.2.</b><b>The First sentence of this section</b> The rest of the
text, body text style.The rest of the text in this paragraph, styled as
body text, would go here. I've got a couple sentences here. After
that, I have another paragraph, formatted just like this one.
<b>B.1.3.</b><b><b>The First sentence of this section</b> The rest of
the text, body text style.The rest of the text in this paragraph,
styled as body text, would go here. I've got a couple sentences here.
After that, I have another paragraph, formatted just like this one.
 
Ad

Advertisements

W

William.Gunn

So I realize that doing like I am, I actually have no body text, rather
the whole document is headings, subheadings, and subsubheadings. This
seems to me like a perversion of the intent of the heading style, but
nonetheless, I wanted a section heading in front of each block of text,
numbered appropriately, without a paragraph break in between the number
and the text.

Instead of:
<b>A.1.</b>
body text here
<b>A.2.</b>
body text here

I needed

<b>A.1.</b> body text here
<b>A.2.</b> body text here.

This doesn't sound like too exotic of a request, but it doesn't look
like there's a way to have two different styles on the same line, since
everything is delimited by the paragraph break. What am I missing out
on?
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

What you are doing is using run-in sideheads, and the best way to achieve
this is with two separate styles, one for the heading part and one for the
body text part, in separate paragraphs. You get them to appear to be in the
same paragraph by using a style separator or a hidden paragraph mark. See
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/RunInSidehead.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.
 
W

William.Gunn

That's EXACTLY what I was looking for. If only I had known it was
called a run-in sidehead...
 
W

William.Gunn

Well, that sounded like exactly what I was looking for, but maybe I
have to play with it a bit. The insert style separator method
sounded the most promising, but if it just paints over the character
style, it won't set the numbering correctly. In fact, if I set heading
3to bold and set the numbering style, then convert the paragraph to
body text style, then select just the first sentence and set that to
heading 3, it doesn't paint over the numbering, just the character
style. Additionally, setting the text to body text style removes
existing direct formatting, such as superscripts. Since I'm writing a
scientific paper, that requires quite a bit of going back through and
reformatting of things written in scientific notation, references, and
other notations typically rendered in superscript, such as cell surface
marker notation. I don't have any equations, thank god.

Also, both the style separator and hidden paragraph aren't known to
work well with other versions of Word, and that's a problem because my
colleagues are barely computer literate and use whatever version of
word their IT person installed, whenever he last visited, which could
have been years ago. I need something that degrades gracefully.

Everyone in my field uses Word, so I don't relish the idea of being the
lone weirdo who uses LaTeX, but Microsoft isn't making maintaining this
façade of normalcy very easy, and at least if I send around a PDF, I
know what it'll look like on their machine.
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

Yes, there are known problems with numbered paragraphs. Applying Body Text
style to a paragraph shouldn't affect direct formatting (unless it's applied
to more than 50% of the text) provided you just click in the paragraph
rather than select the entire thing.

Style separators were introduced in Word 2002 and may not be
backward-compatible, but the hidden paragraph mark should be usable in any
version; the only problem is that users who didn't create a document often
don't recognize them for what they are.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Well, that sounded like exactly what I was looking for, but maybe I
have to play with it a bit. The insert style separator method
sounded the most promising, but if it just paints over the character
style, it won't set the numbering correctly. In fact, if I set heading
3to bold and set the numbering style, then convert the paragraph to
body text style, then select just the first sentence and set that to
heading 3, it doesn't paint over the numbering, just the character
style. Additionally, setting the text to body text style removes
existing direct formatting, such as superscripts. Since I'm writing a
scientific paper, that requires quite a bit of going back through and
reformatting of things written in scientific notation, references, and
other notations typically rendered in superscript, such as cell surface
marker notation. I don't have any equations, thank god.

Also, both the style separator and hidden paragraph aren't known to
work well with other versions of Word, and that's a problem because my
colleagues are barely computer literate and use whatever version of
word their IT person installed, whenever he last visited, which could
have been years ago. I need something that degrades gracefully.

Everyone in my field uses Word, so I don't relish the idea of being the
lone weirdo who uses LaTeX, but Microsoft isn't making maintaining this
façade of normalcy very easy, and at least if I send around a PDF, I
know what it'll look like on their machine.
 
Ad

Advertisements

W

William.Gunn

I'll try the hidden paragraph thing, and thanks so much for your help.
See, my job is to get this project done, and to do that I have to write
this thing, but I don't prepare documents for a living and it seems
like Word has gotten so complex that it's just not appropriate for use
by someone who hasn't undergone training. Why does it have to be so
hard?
 
W

William.Gunn

Mrs. Barnhill, I appreciate your help. I realize now that there is no
established "best way" to do this so that the document will degrade
gracefully. Below is a rant, all of which I'm sure you've heard
before. If good answers to my questions existed, I guess they would
have been easier to find in the first place.

Why couldn't there be a <start formatting> and <end formatting> code
that you could insert that doesn't do anything else but define the
boundaries of the formatted region? I mean, that's something you would
have expected to have been there from Word 1.0, right?

You'd think a best practice for making a numbered outline would have
been established years ago and not messed around with, yet there are
apparently three different ways to do it, all of which are fairly
complicated and work differently in different versions of the program.

I'm starting to feel like I'm being used to help market an upgrade by
being forced to use features that my colleagues would have to upgrade
to see, but I'm not even trying to do anything all that complicated.

In an attempt to make my life easier by using autoformatting to create
a manageable document, I've inadvertently made it more complicated. I
think the answer is to save this document as a web page, clean up the
HTML of crap that only works in the latest version of Internet
Explorer, and send everyone the link.
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

When I said, "there are known problems with numbered paragraphs," I meant
specifically in connection with style separators and hidden paragraph marks.
Numbering in general is remarkably stable in Word 2002 and 2003, and
restarting numbering has become much simpler. I am told it has been greatly
improved in Word 2007, and I refer you to the Word team's blog at
http://blogs.msdn.com/microsoft_office_word/default.aspx, to which Stuart
Stuple, who was specifically tasked with improving numbering, has
contributed several recent entries.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Mrs. Barnhill, I appreciate your help. I realize now that there is no
established "best way" to do this so that the document will degrade
gracefully. Below is a rant, all of which I'm sure you've heard
before. If good answers to my questions existed, I guess they would
have been easier to find in the first place.

Why couldn't there be a <start formatting> and <end formatting> code
that you could insert that doesn't do anything else but define the
boundaries of the formatted region? I mean, that's something you would
have expected to have been there from Word 1.0, right?

You'd think a best practice for making a numbered outline would have
been established years ago and not messed around with, yet there are
apparently three different ways to do it, all of which are fairly
complicated and work differently in different versions of the program.

I'm starting to feel like I'm being used to help market an upgrade by
being forced to use features that my colleagues would have to upgrade
to see, but I'm not even trying to do anything all that complicated.

In an attempt to make my life easier by using autoformatting to create
a manageable document, I've inadvertently made it more complicated. I
think the answer is to save this document as a web page, clean up the
HTML of crap that only works in the latest version of Internet
Explorer, and send everyone the link.
 
W

William.Gunn

Thanks for the clarification and for the further linkage. I finally
capitulated and just gave it a damn paragraph break so that the
outlining would work.

The hidden paragraph trick didn't work for me, and the style separator
thing doesn't either, because it only applies character formatting, so
if the paragraph starts off as body text, applying the proper outline
numbered heading style over the first sentence makes it bold, but
doesn't insert the numbering.

Anyways, I've wasted enough time trying to figure out how to do this
properly. I really do appreciate your assistance, without which I would
have given up far sooner. Then again, maybe that would have been a
good thing.
 
W

William.Gunn

That link to Mr. Stuple's blog actually sheds a great deal of light on
the situation. I read with interest how they have a new style called
"Intense quote", which sets off a whole block of text, because that
reflects the impact of the text on the reader.

I can't wait for Office 2007. Reckon they will have added the ability
to send and receive "informal electronic communications" using Outlook,
or perhaps add "graphical presentation enhancements" to my
presentations? Maybe I could even enter my data in their new and
innovative "row and column indexed data storage format"!

All I can see is a little chihuahua with a beret saying in a snotty
french accent, "I piss upon your silly little standards!"
 
Ad

Advertisements

S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

Yeah, sometimes they do get a bit carried away with themselves, but I have
to tell you that they do take this very seriously, and they were very
considerate in accepting feedback from the MVPs when we told them they were
heading in disastrous directions; I think we got some of the worst faux pas
eliminated, anyway.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

That link to Mr. Stuple's blog actually sheds a great deal of light on
the situation. I read with interest how they have a new style called
"Intense quote", which sets off a whole block of text, because that
reflects the impact of the text on the reader.

I can't wait for Office 2007. Reckon they will have added the ability
to send and receive "informal electronic communications" using Outlook,
or perhaps add "graphical presentation enhancements" to my
presentations? Maybe I could even enter my data in their new and
innovative "row and column indexed data storage format"!

All I can see is a little chihuahua with a beret saying in a snotty
french accent, "I piss upon your silly little standards!"
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top