Want to build a customized PC

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Never did this before and I'm very hesitant about doing it now - maybe there
is a supplier who will do it for a fee (or, with some encouragement, I might
still attempt it).

My thought is to build a top end PC (speed, top-rated components, etc.) with
room for expansion. Also, I'd like the backup capability built-in. The
motherboard and processor should be capable of upgrades. As of now, I'd use
Windows XP Pro as the OS - but who knows what will be the next Microsoft OS
(and when). The power supply must be powerful enough to handle anything I
might throw at this machine. The machine should be fairly quiet with plenty
of cooling capacity (but, I don't know if I want to mess with liquid
cooling - I'm afraid that I might do something wrong and spring a leak -
thereby ruining my PC). For now, I foresee using this PC for Photoshop,
playing music on a 7.1 or 8.1 sound card, and videoconferencing. Once those
items are set up, I'd probably look for more things I could do with this PC
(things I may not now know exist). That's one of my questions: where do I
look to find other things that are available or things to come? I don't
have a preference of CPU because I don't know enough about them. I would
probably want 10,000 rpm drives (to add to the speed). I've heard of RAID
configurations - but don't know the pros and cons of them. What can be
done? I always backup my PC and also clone another drive once-a-week so I
will never (???) crash completely. I'm trying not to have too may wires
exterior to the PC - like I have now - but, I guess, every peripheral has to
have both power and a connection to the PC. I will also want to use my PC
as a media center for my home with a wireless router. Perhaps a built-in
telephone with message capability (don't know if there is such a thing).
The case should be easy to get access to the interior and to the components.
At the moment, I'm not considering the cost - but I want a machine to be my
*hobby* for some years - so I'll probably be willing to spend what I need
to. However, I'm retired and living on a fixed income - so, I may have to
build this machine in stages as the money becomes available. At this time,
I just don't know how this will play out. About this time next year, I will
be moving to Texas to live near one of my sons - and this hobby will be
something we can do together. That's when I will be building this machine -
but I want to start my research now so I'm well prepared. Who knows - if I
become confident enough, I may want to build the basics of this machine
sooner so I can, at least, duplicate what I have now.

What I have now is a 1GHz notebook, Windows XP Pro, a wired router, scanner,
three exterior Maxtor drives (for backup), a spare drive to clone
once-a-week, high speed Internet, and an Epson graphics printer. The
slowness of this machine drives me crazy and, even though I use an expansion
docking station, there is no more room for expansion. Oh, I also have an
Intuos 2 graphics tablet. I don't plan to do video editing at this time.
I've tried videoconferencing - but the frame rate is still too slow for me.
I also use Dragon Naturally Speaking - but my system is too slow for that
too.

I can't think of anything more at the moment...........

Any input would be welcome..........

 

[BP]

A good group for your questions is alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt . They
tend to be mostly AMD guys over there though.
A good site for bleeding edge technology reports and reviews is Tom's
Hardware Guide Tom's Hardware Guide .

When I built my machine I started with the processor. I went to the Intel
and AMD websites and started reading. Once I made my mind up on what brand
and speed processor to use that lead me straight to the required mainboards,
that lead me to the required memory, and everything else came together from
there. The power supply is the most crucial and problem potential devices in
new systems. Don't skimp on the power supply.

 

[Heirloom]

FWIW (being from another Texan), I agree with BP, don't skimp on the PS. I
would like to add that I recently built an XP machine, very quiet, very
fast, but, not 'bleeding edge'....didn't have the money for that. The
point: I am using Acronis True Image for backup and would highly recommend
it. I have four HD's, two 80G SATA 150 7.5Krpm in a Raid 0, one 80G IDE
7.5Krpm for data and a 300G IDE partitioned into 200/100G for backing up the
others. The Raid0 seems to make a noticeable difference when dealing with
large files. The rubber insulated, slide out mounts, right behind a large
blue l.e.d. fan keeps things quiet and cool....and, even this old f*rt likes
the eye candy. The APC UPS was a good investment, as well.
Heirloom, old and really pleased with
mine

 

[D.Currie]

Get friendly with a local, friendly shop.

Every now and then I'd have someone who wanted to build their own computer
with supervision. Parts that my distributors carried, they'd order from me;
other stuff they ordered for themselves. I'd help them choose parts so
everything was compatible.

When all the parts were in, I'd clear off some bench space for them to work,
and there would be appropriate tools available. They'd do all the work, and
someone would double-check all the connections and settings, and would be
available for questions.

Usually I'd charge a flat fee.

You mentioned building the machine in stages, but unless your first stage is
a working computer, it may not be worth doing -- I mean, if you buy parts in
pieces over a long period of time, you'll probably find that if you had
bought it all at the latest date, you could have gotten them cheaper. You're
better off saving money until you can buy the required parts to build a
working machine, and then add on software or peripherals that aren't
required for operation.

Good luck.

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Thanks.......

A good group for your questions is alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt . They
tend to be mostly AMD guys over there though.
A good site for bleeding edge technology reports and reviews is Tom's
Hardware Guide Tom's Hardware Guide .

When I built my machine I started with the processor. I went to the Intel
and AMD websites and started reading. Once I made my mind up on what brand
and speed processor to use that lead me straight to the required
mainboards, that lead me to the required memory, and everything else came
together from there. The power supply is the most crucial and problem
potential devices in new systems. Don't skimp on the power supply.

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Thanks. Could you be a little more specific on how you use your four hard
drives? I'm not familiar with the different RAID configurations - their
strengths and weaknesses.

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Get friendly with a local, friendly shop.

Every now and then I'd have someone who wanted to build their own computer
with supervision. Parts that my distributors carried, they'd order from
me; other stuff they ordered for themselves. I'd help them choose parts so
everything was compatible.

When all the parts were in, I'd clear off some bench space for them to
work, and there would be appropriate tools available. They'd do all the
work, and someone would double-check all the connections and settings, and
would be available for questions.

Usually I'd charge a flat fee.

You mentioned building the machine in stages, but unless your first stage
is a working computer, it may not be worth doing -- I mean, if you buy
parts in pieces over a long period of time, you'll probably find that if
you had bought it all at the latest date, you could have gotten them
cheaper. You're better off saving money until you can buy the required
parts to build a working machine, and then add on software or peripherals
that aren't required for operation.

Guess I wan't clear - but that's what I meant - building a working machine,
then adding the goodies later when I could afford them.

 

[Phillips]

Extremetech.com also has a few custom build PCs articles - from budget PC to
best-bang-for-the-buck to best-of-the best (money don't mater).
It's better to start with planning your storage options, then go for
CPU/RAM/motherboard; next come PC Case, PSU and UPS. Then, you need to
decide for a graphics and an audio solution plus other peripherals
(speakers, modem, router etc).

1. Storage: plan for 1TB (~1/2 of it backup) - you'll use only some 70% of
it anyway since formatting will take ~5%, defrag needs another 20%, Sys.
Restore, Recycle Bin, Acronis Partition, Temp Internet Files, page file etc
require another, say, 10%. You can start small: 2x74.3 GB, 10K RPM Raptors
in RAID0 = $350. If you accept 7200 RPM Sata, you can get 2x160 GB for $200
or less. Next comes the backup drive (and later you can advance to 4x Raid0
having a backup in place); Plan for a 400GB SATA (about same $250 as UATA).
Of course, you can go for external backup solutions, NAS etc.

2. AMD Athlon 64/1GB RAM/Asus or Gigabyte 939socket w/ Nvidia nForce4 Ultra
chipset mobo. Buy the best you can afford of each, but don't cut costs on
any for the other. High-end boards come with most anything else you might
need - SATA raid solutions etc. Mobo manufacturer will tell you what RAM you
need.

3. Audio: one option for most users - Audigy X-Fi (~$129 lowest); you can
also settle for the onboard sound or go for a pro or exotic audiophile
soundcard; speakers... difficult to tell - I have a pair of Swans. If you
start small, again, don't bother about sound card.

4. Video: either ATI All-in-One Wonder (preferable even though ATI drivers
suck) or nVidia Empty-Your-Banck-Account or 3DLabs Wildcat. You need to fit
graphics card with: a. mobo bus, b. PSU (must power all the stuff - mobo,
video, SATA, USB etc), c. monitor (min. 19" LCD) DVI input is standard; if
you do graphics, you need a monitor whose colors are adjustable (no "presets
only") but they go about $500.

5. PC case - Antec has one for $400! Otherwise, it's gotta be aluminium and
have/accept min. 2x120mm fans. If you overclock, you'll need many more fans
Some cases come with PSU - you need 550 W real, filtered, stable. Throw
in a good quality1000W UPS - to run PC and monitor and modem on battery for
1/2 hour or so. Add a wireless keyboard, optical wireless mouse as you see
fit.

If you know what you want to buy, just follow the prices... you'll find a
good (30-50%) discont in a three months period on most any PC parts - check
'factory refurbished' sites, too. If you plan to use some of the parts you
have, you'll need only the CPU/RAM/Mobo/VideoCard/PSU parts: ~$1300 and up.

Michael

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

It's 8:30pm EST and I just read your post - thanks for taking the time.
I'll try to respond (ask some questions) tomorrow. I'm brand new at this so
will need some help. Are you willing?

Bobby

 

[Heirloom]

Bobby0,
Phillips has put forth a lot of good info.......however, I have an
Antec Lanboy case that costs a LOT less that $400! They can be had for
about $65 to $110, depending on place of purchase. All aluminum, except
for the acrylic side panel.....easy access and lots of room. Do a Google
search on the different Raid configurations for the details......basically,
Raid 0 uses 'striping', in which both drives write and read a portion of the
data, Raid 1 is redundant with both drives writing and reading the same
data. There are a number of Raid options.
Heirloom, old and the simplest machine that
will do the job adequately is best

 

[Galen]

In +++Bobby "O"+++ <[email protected]> had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

Never did this before and I'm very hesitant about doing it now -
maybe there is a supplier who will do it for a fee (or, with some
encouragement, I might still attempt it).

My thought is to build a top end PC (speed, top-rated components,
etc.) with room for expansion. Also, I'd like the backup capability
built-in. The motherboard and processor should be capable of
upgrades. As of now, I'd use Windows XP Pro as the OS - but who knows
what will be the next Microsoft OS (and when). The power supply must
be powerful enough to handle anything I might throw at this machine. The
machine should be fairly quiet with plenty of cooling capacity
(but, I don't know if I want to mess with liquid cooling - I'm afraid
that I might do something wrong and spring a leak - thereby ruining
my PC). For now, I foresee using this PC for Photoshop, playing
music on a 7.1 or 8.1 sound card, and videoconferencing. Once those
items are set up, I'd probably look for more things I could do with
this PC (things I may not now know exist). That's one of my
questions: where do I look to find other things that are available or
things to come? I don't have a preference of CPU because I don't
know enough about them. I would probably want 10,000 rpm drives (to
add to the speed). I've heard of RAID configurations - but don't
know the pros and cons of them. What can be done? I always backup
my PC and also clone another drive once-a-week so I will never (???)
crash completely. I'm trying not to have too may wires exterior to
the PC - like I have now - but, I guess, every peripheral has to have
both power and a connection to the PC. I will also want to use my PC
as a media center for my home with a wireless router. Perhaps a
built-in telephone with message capability (don't know if there is
such a thing). The case should be easy to get access to the interior
and to the components. At the moment, I'm not considering the cost -
but I want a machine to be my *hobby* for some years - so I'll
probably be willing to spend what I need to. However, I'm retired
and living on a fixed income - so, I may have to build this machine
in stages as the money becomes available. At this time, I just don't
know how this will play out. About this time next year, I will be
moving to Texas to live near one of my sons - and this hobby will be
something we can do together. That's when I will be building this
machine - but I want to start my research now so I'm well prepared. Who
knows - if I become confident enough, I may want to build the
basics of this machine sooner so I can, at least, duplicate what I
have now.
What I have now is a 1GHz notebook, Windows XP Pro, a wired router,
scanner, three exterior Maxtor drives (for backup), a spare drive to
clone once-a-week, high speed Internet, and an Epson graphics
printer. The slowness of this machine drives me crazy and, even
though I use an expansion docking station, there is no more room for
expansion. Oh, I also have an Intuos 2 graphics tablet. I don't
plan to do video editing at this time. I've tried videoconferencing -
but the frame rate is still too slow for me. I also use Dragon
Naturally Speaking - but my system is too slow for that too.

I can't think of anything more at the moment...........

Any input would be welcome..........

I don't generally recommend vendors except in freeware instances. Other than
that I'm reluctant to do so but I'll share this...

I have bought, in JUST the past year, a half dozen costume boxes from
http://www.united-micro.com and they're slower than dirt BUT they're good.
They've a decent customer service department. Their tech staff is great.
They honor their warranty. They benchmark and if a problem arises they start
anew. One thing - rant and make sure they remember to send you the
documentation. They seem to forget that once in a while but they send it
along eventually if you rant at them long enough. (Actually just give them a
call on the phone after you've given up emailing and you should be all set.)

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/

"A man should keep his little brain attic stocked with all the
furniture that he is likely to use, and the rest he can put away in the
lumber-room of his library where he can get it if he wants it."

Sherlock Holmes

 

[Galen]

In Phillips <[email protected]> had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

Extremetech.com also has a few custom build PCs articles - from
budget PC to best-bang-for-the-buck to best-of-the best (money don't
mater). It's better to start with planning your storage options, then go
for
CPU/RAM/motherboard; next come PC Case, PSU and UPS. Then, you need to
decide for a graphics and an audio solution plus other peripherals
(speakers, modem, router etc).

1. Storage: plan for 1TB (~1/2 of it backup) - you'll use only some
70% of it anyway since formatting will take ~5%, defrag needs another
20%, Sys. Restore, Recycle Bin, Acronis Partition, Temp Internet
Files, page file etc require another, say, 10%. You can start small:
2x74.3 GB, 10K RPM Raptors in RAID0 = $350. If you accept 7200 RPM
Sata, you can get 2x160 GB for $200 or less. Next comes the backup
drive (and later you can advance to 4x Raid0 having a backup in
place); Plan for a 400GB SATA (about same $250 as UATA). Of course,
you can go for external backup solutions, NAS etc.
2. AMD Athlon 64/1GB RAM/Asus or Gigabyte 939socket w/ Nvidia nForce4
Ultra chipset mobo. Buy the best you can afford of each, but don't
cut costs on any for the other. High-end boards come with most
anything else you might need - SATA raid solutions etc. Mobo
manufacturer will tell you what RAM you need.

3. Audio: one option for most users - Audigy X-Fi (~$129 lowest); you
can also settle for the onboard sound or go for a pro or exotic
audiophile soundcard; speakers... difficult to tell - I have a pair
of Swans. If you start small, again, don't bother about sound card.

4. Video: either ATI All-in-One Wonder (preferable even though ATI
drivers suck) or nVidia Empty-Your-Banck-Account or 3DLabs Wildcat.
You need to fit graphics card with: a. mobo bus, b. PSU (must power
all the stuff - mobo, video, SATA, USB etc), c. monitor (min. 19"
LCD) DVI input is standard; if you do graphics, you need a monitor
whose colors are adjustable (no "presets only") but they go about
$500.
5. PC case - Antec has one for $400! Otherwise, it's gotta be
aluminium and have/accept min. 2x120mm fans. If you overclock, you'll
need many more fans Some cases come with PSU - you need 550 W
real, filtered, stable. Throw in a good quality1000W UPS - to run PC
and monitor and modem on battery for 1/2 hour or so. Add a wireless
keyboard, optical wireless mouse as you see fit.

If you know what you want to buy, just follow the prices... you'll
find a good (30-50%) discont in a three months period on most any PC
parts - check 'factory refurbished' sites, too. If you plan to use
some of the parts you have, you'll need only the
CPU/RAM/Mobo/VideoCard/PSU parts: ~$1300 and up.
Michael

The only thing I think I'd switch in that order, believe it or not, would be
the power supply. Read carefully what the required wattage is - know it
fully - make a decent choice based there. I've seen too many systems either
blown due to fault PS or down for a couple of days due to it. The objective
is to have limited down-time and one of the best methods I've found is to
KNOW the required amount, plan ahead, and buy a reputable brand with more
than enough.

A good broad generalized statement that I can say with some certainty is a
500 or 550 watt PS is fairly cheap and will almost certainly serve your
needs unless you're intending to build a huge beast from the netherhells
that also functions as a microwave. Do not skimp there. Spend the extra and
buy a "utility tool kit" and do your case mods yourself if you have to.

Most people think of the RAM, the CPU, and the MOBO features first. Those
are all good but you gotta power it. Dirty power will/can result in some
nasty errors.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/

"A man should keep his little brain attic stocked with all the
furniture that he is likely to use, and the rest he can put away in the
lumber-room of his library where he can get it if he wants it."

Sherlock Holmes

 

[BP]

I have a RAID mainboard but have opted not to use it in any configuration.
In layman's terms what RAID gives you is an emergency backup system that in
the case of a hard drive failure would allow you to be back up and running
in minutes, if not seconds, with the entire system simply switching to the
remaining good drive. In a simple system the two drives are exact copies of
each other: OS, applications, user files. You use one and the system
automatically copies everything from the drive your using to the redundant
drive. The different RAID configurations (0, 1, & 0+1) all do the same thing
in different ways.
RAID backups would be crucial for time dependant machines: servers, business
computers, retail systems, etc. The individual user may decide that the cost
of a redundant hard drive is worth it to avoid re-installing everything
after a melt down. In my case, I back up all of my user data to another
external hard drive and acknowledge that if my HD craps out that it would be
a good time to install a nice clean system anyway. It's a personal choice. I
have 2 puters so if one goes down the beat goes on and I can make it to the
weekend.
But you notice I still decided to have the capability to go RAID should the
wind blow me that way. RAID boards are only 30 or 40 dollars more than
non-RAID and you don't need to activate the chip if you don't want to.

 

[Phillips]

In Phillips <[email protected]> had this to say:

PSU reviews here: http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050228/

If you go to parts manufacturers websites, you can usually check the power
consumption and voltage for that particular part - cpu, ram, graphics,
audio, usb devices, sata, fans etc. Moreover, some (almost all) PSU
manufacturers advertise the total power measured in optimal (lab) conditions
for a limited time range; the important stuff: the output on each voltage
line (+3.3V, +5V, +12V), filtering (should be active PFC), constancy etc are
disclosed in small print or in technical specs - hopefuly A 550W PSU at
75% efficiency would deliver 412.5 W, yet you don't want to run the PSU at
max. 24/7.

Again, once you have figured out your power consumption (from checking
parts' specs; CPU would use ~100W, graphics ~30W etc), multiply it w/ 1.5
(at least and compare it w/ 75% of total advertised power. You also need
to check the length of the cables - function of your case size and the
positions of PSU v. harddrives most of the times. Another reason you don't
want to max the PSU is noise level that increases w/ output; yet another
reason is to eliminate insufficient PSU power as a possible issue if you
later have troubles.

Michael

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Thank you for the explanation and your point of view. This kind of
information helps me to understand.

Bobby

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Thanks for your point of view.

Bobby

Bobby0,
Phillips has put forth a lot of good info.......however, I have an
Antec Lanboy case that costs a LOT less that $400! They can be had for
about $65 to $110, depending on place of purchase. All aluminum, except
for the acrylic side panel.....easy access and lots of room. Do a Google
search on the different Raid configurations for the
details......basically, Raid 0 uses 'striping', in which both drives write
and read a portion of the data, Raid 1 is redundant with both drives
writing and reading the same data. There are a number of Raid options.
Heirloom, old and the simplest machine that
will do the job adequately is best

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

I'm an electrical engineer and I totally agree with your priorities.

Bobby

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Please explain further what you mean by the downside of having too large a
power supply (or did I misunderstand?).

Bobby

 

[+++Bobby \O\+++]

Thanks, I'll check them out. But I'm concerned by "slower than dirt." What
did you mean by that?

Bobby

 

[Phillips]

I didn't mean a too large PSU is bad; just that you need to check that it
does what it says it does.
See this one:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/power_supplies-21.html
Michael