M
Martijn Saly
Wesley said:
Irrelevant. I am not supposed to go ahead and investigate on my own before
buying. The seller should allow me to review to EULA before every paying for
the blue or green XP-box. I shouldn't even have to ask for it.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Irrelevant. I am not supposed to go ahead and investigate on my own before
buying. The seller should allow me to review to EULA before every paying for
the blue or green XP-box. I shouldn't even have to ask for it.
M
Martijn Saly
Uncle said:First, one "leases" the Win XP license for ONE computer for as long as
one retains control of that PC. I purchased a Win XP Home OEM CD
from my third-party parts dealer when I built my system. From what
I've read in this forum, I'm not supposed to be able to install my OEM
XP Home OS software on another system that I may build in the future...
that it won't activate properly. I find that hard to believe but we'll see.
Bullshit. I buy the box, so it's mine. Mine to fill with hay and put rats in
it, mine to throw off a cliff, mine to bash it with a forehammer, mine to
use it for legally downloading music, mine to [whatever]. It nowhere says
anything about leasing, so it's not a lease. It's that simple.
Secondly, the Dell OEM operating system license is tied to the Dell
motherboard shipped from the factory in a single PC. The Dell-supplied
OS shouldn't activate properly on systems with different motherboards,
including on home-built units having third-party motherboards.
That would be smart of Dell, but also illegal in many countries. A software
license (be it OEM or Retail) is always tied to an individual person and can
even be sold second-hand. Even the sticker on the back of laptops would be a
violation of those rights that belong to me, because the sticker implicitly
tells me I can't "recycle" the license to another PC, if I decide to sell
the laptop without its OS.
Thirdly, one cannot install a OS license on multiple PCs--except in
specified situations (volume licenses come to mind.)
Again, that's a violation of my legal rights. I wrote before that software
must be allowed to be installed on as many PC's as a single user has, so
long as he's truly the only user. The fact that Microsoft cares nothing
about this contruct, is proven by the fact that Microsoft encourages us to
put one PC in every home, and have to whole family use it. 4 users for 1
license...
Fourthly, we're not in your country so American law applies. I agree
that it's unfair to compel buyers to abide by licenses that the buyers
cannot see until they open software products--thereby rendering the
packages unreturnable for refunds. But that's the American way. Big
corporations own the Congress and the court system.
Unfortunately, the local law always applies. Dell may be in the US, but
because the buyer may be in Holland (my country), or France or Japan or even
Mongolia, the US laws are completely cancelled out by the fact that the sell
is an international one.
What I can't believe is that a big multinational like Dell doesn't know how
to properly handle these internationality-issues.
A
Asher_N
No you can't once the package is opened. Software packages are never
returnable because of piracy issues involved. Otherwise, people can
always copy the CDs and return the package for being unfit for their
intended purpose.
The license is readable BEFORE the seal on the CD jacket is broken.
F
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
ANONYMOUS said:No you can't once the package is opened. Software packages are never
returnable because of piracy issues involved. Otherwise, people can
always copy the CDs and return the package for being unfit for their
intended purpose.
My response is based on UK law and practice. I can't speak for global
market.
In USA I've never had a problem returning with the seal broken. They just
send it back to MS (or their distributor).
--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/default.aspx
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/
W
Wesley Vogel
Caveat emptor.
--
Hope this helps. Let us know.
Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
In
--
Hope this helps. Let us know.
Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
In
Martijn Saly said:Wesley said:You can read the eulas before buying.
Retail Software License Terms
http://www.microsoft.com/legal/useterms/default.aspx
[[A copy of the Microsoft® OEM System Builder License, that became
available for distribution on the Microsoft OEM System Builder Packs in
August 2005, is available for download in a total of 43 languages.]]
System Builder Licensing
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/default.mspx
Volume Licensing Home Page
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/default.mspx
Irrelevant. I am not supposed to go ahead and investigate on my own before
buying. The seller should allow me to review to EULA before every paying
for the blue or green XP-box. I shouldn't even have to ask for it.
A
ANONYMOUS
By the same token, the seller doesn't have to sell you anything either
for being so failing to understand how capitalism operates. You should
stop using Microsoft products an go back to 1980 era where you used
elctric typewriters, basic fax machines and relied on snail and pigeon
mail and yet survived very well to grow in to a full blown young man
having difficulties adjusting to 21st century!.
for being so failing to understand how capitalism operates. You should
stop using Microsoft products an go back to 1980 era where you used
elctric typewriters, basic fax machines and relied on snail and pigeon
mail and yet survived very well to grow in to a full blown young man
having difficulties adjusting to 21st century!.
A
ANONYMOUS
Rubbish. The box cover contains beautiful pictures and inside you getThe license is readable BEFORE the seal on the CD jacket is broken.
the CD with serial number clearly visible. You will be lucky if you get
any other documents as most documents are in pdf format inside the CD or
TEXT files. the fact that these are online has no legal force in UK/EU
law.
As soon as you open the box, serial/product number is presumed to be
compromised and neither the vendor nor microsoft is liable for it. the
reason being that the person can quickly install the software, use the
PID, activate the system and then return the entire product and Cd to
the vendor saying that this is not what I wanted or that I wasn't aware
of Microsoft's draconian EULA clauses.
Courts in UK wll believe MS or Vendor because they are not likely to
make life difficult for ordinary consumer. They only need to prove when
was the product installed or activated. Today we have the technology to
give exact time and IP address of the system used to activate. Most
pobably the computer's make/model and full specification is also
available to microsoft. Whether MS or Vendor succeeds in finding the
same system is not important as courts are aware that tracing a system
is like finding a needle in haystack as most people have computers these
days. We can't find Ussama never mind a computer!
The courts will ask how come MS knows all this information (IP address,
date/time of activation, make/model of system etc) if the software was
not installed or activated. Whoo would you believe? MS or that scumbag
trying to defraud MS/Vendor because he hates M$ and its methods of doing
business?
We know everything about the French. God knows why they still still use
MS products. Why don't they invent their own OS?
An unopened packagage is not in question here. It can be rerurned
anytime within 14 days of buying.
I have no qualms about MS products. They serve my needs. My clients
use MS products so I must use them as well to serve them better.
Indeed, I would be the last person to cry foul when I don't like the
terms of EULA as long as I need the product to make a living. I will
simply not buy if the product is such that a substitute is available.
Linux is not a substitute for XP as far as i am concerned unless all my
clients do the same.
Recently I bought Scansoft's Omnipge 14 (or may be 15 can't remember)
from AMAZON. When the package arrived, there was a clear warning on the
package that this product uses Scansoft's activation technology. So I
just returned the product (unopened) and I got my full refund except the
shipping costs. We have 7 days distance selling rules during which a
buyer can return the products in its original form and packaging.
hth
U
Uncle Joe
I cannot believe my eyes! Carey Frisch recommended someone
buy a generic OEM release of Windows XP Home SP2! This after
Carey wrote 67,952 posts recommending that OPs buy a full retail
version of Windows XP. You must be mellowing in your old age,
Carey. (Smile.)
buy a generic OEM release of Windows XP Home SP2! This after
Carey wrote 67,952 posts recommending that OPs buy a full retail
version of Windows XP. You must be mellowing in your old age,
Carey. (Smile.)
A
Asher_N
You must be packaged differently in the UK. Every US or Canadian package
I've ever seen has the EULA printed on an insert clearly readable before
the CD seal is broken.
I've ever seen has the EULA printed on an insert clearly readable before
the CD seal is broken.
U
Uncle Joe
Frank,
Bet you never returned a software product with a broken
seal to CompUSA. I worked at one CompUSA store for
two years and never once saw an instance of the store
accepting an opened software box, much less one in which
the media seal had been breeched. Managers get fired for
accepting broken seals. We could not return software to
Microsoft. Period. We accepted return of hardware such
as Microsoft keyboards and mice but never ever software.
The software return philosophy was, "You open it, you own it."
CompUSA employees can get discounts on hardware but when
I purchased Office 2000 Upgrade with my employee discount,
I was given $2.00 off on the total purchase price. Say what?
Microsoft and CompUSA play hardball when it comes to
Microsoft software.
Bet you never returned a software product with a broken
seal to CompUSA. I worked at one CompUSA store for
two years and never once saw an instance of the store
accepting an opened software box, much less one in which
the media seal had been breeched. Managers get fired for
accepting broken seals. We could not return software to
Microsoft. Period. We accepted return of hardware such
as Microsoft keyboards and mice but never ever software.
The software return philosophy was, "You open it, you own it."
CompUSA employees can get discounts on hardware but when
I purchased Office 2000 Upgrade with my employee discount,
I was given $2.00 off on the total purchase price. Say what?
Microsoft and CompUSA play hardball when it comes to
Microsoft software.
B
Bruce Chambers
Martijn said:Irrelevant. I am not supposed to go ahead and investigate on my own
before buying.
Unbelievable! You don't try on new shoes before buying them? You
don't test drive a car before making the purchase? You trust the word
of a *sales* man? No one that gullible should be allowed out in public
without a keeper.
--
Bruce Chambers
Help us help you:
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
K
kurttrail
Asher_N said:The license is readable BEFORE the seal on the CD jacket is broken.
But not before purchase.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Frank said:In USA I've never had a problem returning with the seal broken. They
just send it back to MS (or their distributor).
LOL! In my experience, most retail stores have no return policies on
OPEN software packaging.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Charlie said:The same reasoning that compels you to insist that my observations
about NVIDIA drivers must be wrong, despite the fact that my personal
experience (which is what I said in the first place) indicates
otherwise?
LOL! Why are you answering something I asked Frank? You know his
reasoning how? He whispered it in your ear while he was doing you
doggy-style last night?
Seems that if anyone's personal experience contradicts
your "Vast knowledge" that person is automatically an "Idiot".
Did I call Frank an idiot? I asked him a simple question, but I guess
you are too simple to understand even a simple question is in no way
calling someone an idiot.
You are an obnoxious little troll, nothing more.
ROFL! Thanks!
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Wesley said:You can read the eulas before buying.
And how many people know that before buying?
And isn't the OEM stuff behind password protection.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Uncle said:I cannot believe my eyes! Carey Frisch recommended someone
buy a generic OEM release of Windows XP Home SP2! This after
Carey wrote 67,952 posts recommending that OPs buy a full retail
version of Windows XP. You must be mellowing in your old age,
Carey. (Smile.)
He must have a concussion from banging his head on his small intestines!
http://carey.microscum.com
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Wesley said:Caveat emptor.
Especially when buying products from a proven predatory monopoly that is
also a proven IP infringer.
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
K
kurttrail
Bruce said:Unbelievable! You don't try on new shoes before buying them? You
don't test drive a car before making the purchase? You trust the word
of a *sales* man? No one that gullible should be allowed out in
public without a keeper.
Wouldn't downloading a copy from file-sharing be like trying on the
shoes before buying? Is that what you mean, Bruce?
--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
R
Rick \Nutcase\ Rogers
Naw, that'd be more like getting a Gucci knock-off from a street vendor
instead of the real thing <g>.
--
Best of Luck,
Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
instead of the real thing <g>.
--
Best of Luck,
Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
U
Uncle Joe
You mean that some dealerships now permit one to test drive their
vehicles before purchasing them? Amazing. What won't they think
of next? I purchased my Lexus off the showroom floor. As Hans the
salesman said, "If we drove your new automobile from our lot to our
showroom floor, that proves that it works." That was good enough
for me.
If a pair of new shoes I've selected comes in a box marked 13EEE,
why would I need to try them on before leaving the store? That's my
size. (Grin.)
Meet Priscilla, my beautiful blonde keeper. We're off to Vegas. (Smile.)
vehicles before purchasing them? Amazing. What won't they think
of next? I purchased my Lexus off the showroom floor. As Hans the
salesman said, "If we drove your new automobile from our lot to our
showroom floor, that proves that it works." That was good enough
for me.
If a pair of new shoes I've selected comes in a box marked 13EEE,
why would I need to try them on before leaving the store? That's my
size. (Grin.)
Meet Priscilla, my beautiful blonde keeper. We're off to Vegas. (Smile.)
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