Upgrading to SP2 on a Celeron Processor

[Guest]

Hi,
we deployed XP SP2 today via SMS, and afterwards discovered that two of our
machines (Dell Dimension 2350s with Celeron Processors) will no longer
bootup. The BIOS on this machine (A02) has not been updated by Dell since
2003, I believe.
Would anyone know of this issue and how it may have been resolved? I would
LOVE to be able to update the BIOS or some other fix that would enable me to
save my users' harddrives! (please don't shoot me, as no, I am not utilizing
system restore - not even sure it would work in this case anyway, but...)
Any thoughts folks?
Thanks very much!

 

[johnf]

Sure, you're supposedly an 'IT Systems Engineer' - which can mean you are
highly qualified in a particular field - or just know how to fix PCs - this
term has become used so loosely lately.

How about re-translating your comment "we deployed XP SP2 today via SMS"
into plain English?
IOW, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Guest]

I apologize if I am speaking greek, john. I came to the Discussion Group
because I need an answer to the issue of why my computers will not boot up
after installing Service Pack 2 for the Operating System Windows XP. From
other research, specifically on the Dell website, there seems to be an issue
with the BIOS for the Processors (Celeron) used on the Dimension 2350s. This
BIOS hasn't been updated in almost 2 years. My reason for mentioning that we
made the upgrade via SMS (Systems Management Server) was so the experts on
this website would know more about my environment and what tools I have at my
disposal. This might give them more thoughts into what potential solutions
they could offer.
If you don't understand that, I'm sorry. If you don't like my job title, I
am sorry. And if you don't have something constructive or helpful to say,
please kindly refrain from posting responses to my (or anyone else's) issues!
Thank you.

Sure, you're supposedly an 'IT Systems Engineer' - which can mean you are
highly qualified in a particular field - or just know how to fix PCs - this
term has become used so loosely lately.

How about re-translating your comment "we deployed XP SP2 today via SMS"
into plain English?
IOW, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[johnf]

Sorry, Greg, but the term SMS also has an entirely different meaning, as you
know - that's what threw me, as I'd never come across the term "Systems
Management Server".
No, I don't have any problems with your job title; e.g, my son's a Senior
SAP IT consultant, certified by the parent Co. in Germany, it's just that
any Joe Blow can say simply that he's an 'IT Systems Engineer' - which in
that form, doesn't hold much credence these days as it can cover the corner
PC shop up to highly qualified Engineers.
IMHO, this appears to be a problem that Dell should sort out for you (unless
anyone else on this NG has already found a solution)

 

[Guest]

Sorry for being snippy John.
I have checked Dell's site, and unfortunately they do not have a solution,
but as I have also seen that this happens to the same processor on other
machines, I don't know if Dell will feel it is their problem to solve!
I have found this article which I will check to see tomorrow if it applies
to me: http://cquirke.mvps.org/sp2intel.htm
Other than that, I may be at a loss!
Again, sorry for sounding snippy, but it is late here, and I am really
annoyed at having to deal with this! lol
Greg

 

[Guest]

One would hope that Dell will manage to up their game now that IBM has left
the American and global markets to a Chinese based organisation.

Support has always been a problem for them: in that they should be advising
clients ahead of time [via website or otherwise] as to the potential issues
with things like SP2 - being of such GLOBAL significance.

Whhat is amazing is that the wasn't a warning from Windows regading an issue
during the setup phase.

Perhaps you could try to run RESTORE and get them back working at pre SP2
level and then implement SP2 off the distribution CD and be on the alert for
any warning messages.

As to why an existing and well know platform should have an incompatibilty
with SP2 leaves me bemused. It was not the intention of SP2 to render
hardware or microcode obsolete: simply an improvement to the system and
security: the emphasis being on security. Perhaps Intel should be have been
more proactive, with their Prescott based CPUs being the major problem items
and posted warnings with SP2 downloads regarding the mandatory BIOS updates
required.

Sorry for being snippy John.
I have checked Dell's site, and unfortunately they do not have a solution,
but as I have also seen that this happens to the same processor on other
machines, I don't know if Dell will feel it is their problem to solve!
I have found this article which I will check to see tomorrow if it applies
to me: http://cquirke.mvps.org/sp2intel.htm
Other than that, I may be at a loss!
Again, sorry for sounding snippy, but it is late here, and I am really
annoyed at having to deal with this! lol
Greg

 

[RonK]

Greg, Found some info on your problem that might help:

The problem of SP2 not installing on Prescott (Celerons) and Extreme Edition
CPUs has been identified. The problem appears to be due to the machine's
BIOS not installing a production level microcode update.

To check whether the BIOS is at the correct level, download the Intel
Processor Frequency ID utility from this page:
http://support.intel.com/support/processors/tools/frequencyid/

The microcode version is identified by this utility as "CPU Revision". So
for this CPU:
a.. CPU Family = 15


b.. CPU Model = 3


c.. CPU Stepping = 4
The microcode revision should be at least 8 (if it is zero, then no
microcode update was installed at all):
a.. CPU Revision = 8
If the microcode revision is not 8, then boot into Safe Mode. Rename the
file %windir%\system32\drivers\update.sys so that it does not load. Apply
the SP2 upgrade file and the machine should boot properly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Microsoft source wrote:

The motherboard they are using does not support the processor that is
installed in it. There should be no expectations of correct operation.
It is
a violation of the processor specifications to run the processor
without a
valid microcode update. This is equivalent to running the processor at
a
voltage or speed other than what it is speced for. It may sort of
work, but
it is not going to be very reliable.

Please remind the users that the machine may be unstable until a new
BIOS is
installed and update.sys is put back into place and thus able to load
the
most current microcode update. Running with no microcode update leaves
the
machine vulnerable to all the errata that would be resolved by the
current
microcode update.



Frequently check the website of your motherboard manufacturer for BIOS
updates as the above is a temporary workaround and may cause instability.

 

[johnf]

OK, we're friends. I posted at 12.15 am OZ time, on top of that just had my
gall-bladder removed 6 days ago, so you must excuse me.
(Sick, sore & sorry 70+ year-old

 

[RonK]

Here's a bit more :
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b99c199-5d75-454f-ae07-b620727be8d8
Background: The update replaces the SP2 file update.sys, version
5.1.2600.2180, with a new version 5.1.2600.2508 that works correctly on the
affected CPUs.

Try to boot into safe mode or disable both L1 and L2 caches in the BIOS to
get the machine to boot, then uninstall Service Pack 2, then wait for and
obtain an updated BIOS or install the fix. If you cannot get Windows XP to
boot at all and cannot get an updated BIOS in time, you may have to do a
repair installation of Windows XP.

 

[johnf]

Yes, that had me puzzled also, SP2 is supposedly just a combination of all
previous hotfixes, plus a few new ones.

My main query is, did MS also include their own driver versions, which
normally don't fall under 'critical' but usually can cause many problems -
those I always steer clear of & go direct to the manufacturer's site.

Oh, well, you can always ensure your systems are completely clean, Greg, run
a Repair/reinstall, then try SP2 again.

--

johnf

One would hope that Dell will manage to up their game now that IBM has
left the American and global markets to a Chinese based organisation.

Support has always been a problem for them: in that they should be
advising clients ahead of time [via website or otherwise] as to the
potential issues with things like SP2 - being of such GLOBAL
significance.

Whhat is amazing is that the wasn't a warning from Windows regading an
issue during the setup phase.

Perhaps you could try to run RESTORE and get them back working at pre
SP2 level and then implement SP2 off the distribution CD and be on the
alert for any warning messages.

As to why an existing and well know platform should have an
incompatibilty with SP2 leaves me bemused. It was not the intention of
SP2 to render hardware or microcode obsolete: simply an improvement to
the system and security: the emphasis being on security. Perhaps Intel
should be have been more proactive, with their Prescott based CPUs
being the major problem items and posted warnings with SP2 downloads
regarding the mandatory BIOS updates required.

Sorry for being snippy John.
I have checked Dell's site, and unfortunately they do not have a
solution, but as I have also seen that this happens to the same
processor on other machines, I don't know if Dell will feel it is
their problem to solve! I have found this article which I will
check to see tomorrow if it applies to me:
http://cquirke.mvps.org/sp2intel.htm
Other than that, I may be at a loss!
Again, sorry for sounding snippy, but it is late here, and I am really
annoyed at having to deal with this! lol
Greg

 

[Guest]

Well done Holmes!

It looks like RonK has hit the nail on the head.

I hope that Greg can confirm if this is the right soluton on his Hell boxes.

Here's a bit more :
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b99c199-5d75-454f-ae07-b620727be8d8
Background: The update replaces the SP2 file update.sys, version
5.1.2600.2180, with a new version 5.1.2600.2508 that works correctly on the
affected CPUs.

Try to boot into safe mode or disable both L1 and L2 caches in the BIOS to
get the machine to boot, then uninstall Service Pack 2, then wait for and
obtain an updated BIOS or install the fix. If you cannot get Windows XP to
boot at all and cannot get an updated BIOS in time, you may have to do a
repair installation of Windows XP.

 

[Guest]

I am giving that a try now, but as I wasn't able to boot from Safe Mode, I
ultimately had to use the system disk to remove SP2:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=875355&product=windowsxpsp2
After that was finished (takes a while), I installed the hotfix you pointed
out, and I am in the process of reinstalling SP2!
Will let you all know how it turns out, and thanks to everyone for the
assistance!
Greg

Well done Holmes!

It looks like RonK has hit the nail on the head.

I hope that Greg can confirm if this is the right soluton on his Hell boxes.

 

[Guest]

SUCCESS!
johnf, BAR, and RonK, thank you all for your support and advice!
I rolled back to SP1 as I mentioned, installed the Hotfix that was
recommended, and have now successfully upgraded to SP2 on both computers!
I appreciate all the advice and commiseration, and enjoy your computing,
folks!
Greg

 

[RonK]

Glad to help Greg !
I ran into that problem about 6 months ago on a Laptop.
Fixed it the same way.