UPDATE : RIAA Washington Post CD copy story was a LIE.....

J

jim

(from http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9839897-7.html?tag=nefd.top )

January 3, 2008 9:26 PM PST
RIAA shreds Washington Post story in debate
Posted by Greg Sandoval

An executive with the music industry's lobbying group engaged in a verbal
sparring match on Thursday with the Washington Post columnist who alleges
that the organization is trying to outlaw the practice of copying CDs to a
computer.

Here was a golden opportunity for Cary Sherman to declare once and for all
that copying CDs for personal use is lawful. He stopped short of that,
saying that copyright law is too complex to make such sweeping statements.
National Public Radio hosted in on-air debate between Marc Fisher, the Post
columnist, and Cary Sherman, president of the Recording Industry Association
of America (RIAA). The way I saw it, Fisher was ill advised to debate. What
was exposed was a reporter who doesn't want to admit to making a mistake and
has dug his heels in. Meanwhile, according to Sherman, Fisher has misled
consumers.

Early in the debate, Fisher was on the defense as Sherman picked apart his
story, which appeared on Sunday. In the piece Fisher quoted from a court
document, filed in the case of an Arizona man accused by the RIAA of illegal
file sharing. Fisher wrote that the quotes demonstrated that the lobbying
group was now challenging the right of music fans to rip CDs to their
computers.

Copying CDs to a computer or an iPod is common all over the world and if
Fisher's claims were correct, the RIAA would be painting millions of people
as criminals. The story became national news and scores of publications
repeated Fisher's claims.

But as numerous bloggers and copyright experts have noted, the quotes cited
by Fisher are incomplete. Fisher wrote that the RIAA had argued in the brief
that MP3 files created from legally bought CDs are "unauthorized copies" and
violate the law.

"The Post picked up one sentence in a 21-page brief and then picked the part
of the sentence about ripping CDs onto the computer," Sherman said during
the radio show. "(The Post) simply ignored the part of the sentence about
putting them into a shared folder."

The "shared folder" omission is at the center of what's wrong with Fisher's
story. Anyone who reads the brief can see that the RIAA says over and over
again what it considers to be illegal activity: the distribution of music
files via peer-to-peer networks.

Fisher didn't address this issue during the debate. Instead he moved on to
testimony given by Jennifer Pariser, a Sony BMG lawyer, who said during an
earlier court case: "when an individual makes a copy of a song for himself,
I suppose we can say he stole a song."

This is when Sherman really went to work on Fisher's story.

"The Sony person who (Fisher) relies on actually misspoke in that trial,"
Sherman said. "I know because I asked her after stories started appearing.
It turns out that she had misheard the question. She thought that this was a
question about illegal downloading when it was actually a question about
ripping CDs. That is not the position of Sony BMG. That is not the position
of that spokesperson. That is not the position of the industry."

Sherman said that other reporters and bloggers had called about Pariser's
quotes and chose not to write about them after learning she had erred.

Why wasn't Fisher offered this information? Well, he would have been had he
spoken to anyone at the RIAA, Sherman said.

Prior to writing the story Fisher called the RIAA for a statement once and
left a message, according to Sherman. When the RIAA's spokesman returned the
call two hours later, he missed Fisher. But Fisher never called back to get
the RIAA's statement even though the story wasn't published until nine days
later.

It's customary for journalists to give the subject of a story a chance to be
quoted--especially when they're slamming them.

Again, Fisher declined to address Sherman's accusations. He moved on to
statements that appear on the RIAA's Web site, which he claims show that the
group considers copying music to a computer as unlawful.

But Sherman suggested that Fisher was once again being selective with the
RIAA's statements. Sherman showed the location on the site where the RIAA
says that people can typically copy music for personal use without any
problems.

"They go on to equivocate and say, 'Well, usually it won't raise concerns if
you go ahead and transfer legally obtained music to your computer,'" Fisher
said during the debate, "but they won't go all the way and say that it's a
legal right."

"Not a single (legal) case has ever been brought (by the RIAA against
someone for copying music for personal use)," Sherman said. "Not a single
claim has ever been made."

In the final analysis, this is really a story about journalism ethics more
than it is about technology. Fisher is a respected journalist who probably
should remember one of the first things they teach cub reporters: when
someone challenges you over a story, it's smart to think of worst-case
scenarios.

Reporters are reminded to ask themselves whether they could defend
everything they did during the reporting and writing process if ever sued?
If the RIAA ever took the Post to court over the issue, Fisher might have to
explain why he omitted important sections of the RIAA's legal brief. He
would have to justify not trying harder to get RIAA comment.

If a reporter's work doesn't stand up, the typical remedy at most media
organizations is to issue a correction. That's what the Post should do in
this case.

Greg Sandoval is a former Washington Post staff writer.
 
J

jim

"Bob" you are a coward. You post nothing to help individuals or the group
as a whole.

May your life and world befilled with people just like you.

jim
 
M

Mrs Miggins

jim said:
"Bob" you are a coward. You post nothing to help individuals or the group
as a whole.

May your life and world befilled with people just like you.

jim
Don't be too hard on him - he was so shocked he was speechless!

Mrs T
 
B

Bob I

jim said:
"Bob" you are a coward. You post nothing to help individuals or the group
as a whole.

May your life and world befilled with people just like you.

jim

Thankfully the rest of us are not so clueless as you are. And may your
world be also filled with people like me. It would be in your best
interests.
 
J

jim

Bob I said:
Thankfully the rest of us are not so clueless as you are. And may your
world be also filled with people like me. It would be in your best
interests.

Yes "Bob". We need you to protect us from retractions like the one
below....

(from http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9839897-7.html?tag=nefd.top )

January 3, 2008 9:26 PM PST
RIAA shreds Washington Post story in debate
Posted by Greg Sandoval

An executive with the music industry's lobbying group engaged in a verbal
sparring match on Thursday with the Washington Post columnist who alleges
that the organization is trying to outlaw the practice of copying CDs to a
computer.

Here was a golden opportunity for Cary Sherman to declare once and for all
that copying CDs for personal use is lawful. He stopped short of that,
saying that copyright law is too complex to make such sweeping statements.
National Public Radio hosted in on-air debate between Marc Fisher, the Post
columnist, and Cary Sherman, president of the Recording Industry Association
of America (RIAA). The way I saw it, Fisher was ill advised to debate. What
was exposed was a reporter who doesn't want to admit to making a mistake and
has dug his heels in. Meanwhile, according to Sherman, Fisher has misled
consumers.

Early in the debate, Fisher was on the defense as Sherman picked apart his
story, which appeared on Sunday. In the piece Fisher quoted from a court
document, filed in the case of an Arizona man accused by the RIAA of illegal
file sharing. Fisher wrote that the quotes demonstrated that the lobbying
group was now challenging the right of music fans to rip CDs to their
computers.

Copying CDs to a computer or an iPod is common all over the world and if
Fisher's claims were correct, the RIAA would be painting millions of people
as criminals. The story became national news and scores of publications
repeated Fisher's claims.

But as numerous bloggers and copyright experts have noted, the quotes cited
by Fisher are incomplete. Fisher wrote that the RIAA had argued in the brief
that MP3 files created from legally bought CDs are "unauthorized copies" and
violate the law.

"The Post picked up one sentence in a 21-page brief and then picked the part
of the sentence about ripping CDs onto the computer," Sherman said during
the radio show. "(The Post) simply ignored the part of the sentence about
putting them into a shared folder."

The "shared folder" omission is at the center of what's wrong with Fisher's
story. Anyone who reads the brief can see that the RIAA says over and over
again what it considers to be illegal activity: the distribution of music
files via peer-to-peer networks.

Fisher didn't address this issue during the debate. Instead he moved on to
testimony given by Jennifer Pariser, a Sony BMG lawyer, who said during an
earlier court case: "when an individual makes a copy of a song for himself,
I suppose we can say he stole a song."

This is when Sherman really went to work on Fisher's story.

"The Sony person who (Fisher) relies on actually misspoke in that trial,"
Sherman said. "I know because I asked her after stories started appearing.
It turns out that she had misheard the question. She thought that this was a
question about illegal downloading when it was actually a question about
ripping CDs. That is not the position of Sony BMG. That is not the position
of that spokesperson. That is not the position of the industry."

Sherman said that other reporters and bloggers had called about Pariser's
quotes and chose not to write about them after learning she had erred.

Why wasn't Fisher offered this information? Well, he would have been had he
spoken to anyone at the RIAA, Sherman said.

Prior to writing the story Fisher called the RIAA for a statement once and
left a message, according to Sherman. When the RIAA's spokesman returned the
call two hours later, he missed Fisher. But Fisher never called back to get
the RIAA's statement even though the story wasn't published until nine days
later.

It's customary for journalists to give the subject of a story a chance to be
quoted--especially when they're slamming them.

Again, Fisher declined to address Sherman's accusations. He moved on to
statements that appear on the RIAA's Web site, which he claims show that the
group considers copying music to a computer as unlawful.

But Sherman suggested that Fisher was once again being selective with the
RIAA's statements. Sherman showed the location on the site where the RIAA
says that people can typically copy music for personal use without any
problems.

"They go on to equivocate and say, 'Well, usually it won't raise concerns if
you go ahead and transfer legally obtained music to your computer,'" Fisher
said during the debate, "but they won't go all the way and say that it's a
legal right."

"Not a single (legal) case has ever been brought (by the RIAA against
someone for copying music for personal use)," Sherman said. "Not a single
claim has ever been made."

In the final analysis, this is really a story about journalism ethics more
than it is about technology. Fisher is a respected journalist who probably
should remember one of the first things they teach cub reporters: when
someone challenges you over a story, it's smart to think of worst-case
scenarios.

Reporters are reminded to ask themselves whether they could defend
everything they did during the reporting and writing process if ever sued?
If the RIAA ever took the Post to court over the issue, Fisher might have to
explain why he omitted important sections of the RIAA's legal brief. He
would have to justify not trying harder to get RIAA comment.

If a reporter's work doesn't stand up, the typical remedy at most media
organizations is to issue a correction. That's what the Post should do in
this case.

Greg Sandoval is a former Washington Post staff writer.
 
B

Bob I

jim said:
Yes "Bob". We need you to protect us from retractions like the one
below....

If a certain clueless individual didn't crosspost the off topic SPAM in
the first place, the entire issue is moot. I trust we will hear no more
of this drivel in this group.
 
Q

QWERTY

jim said:
(from http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9839897-7.html?tag=nefd.top )

January 3, 2008 9:26 PM PST
RIAA shreds Washington Post story in debate
Posted by Greg Sandoval
Here was a golden opportunity for Cary Sherman to declare once and for all
that copying CDs for personal use is lawful. He stopped short of that,
saying that copyright law is too complex to make such sweeping statements.

That's convenient. What's sweeping about it. Either it is legal or it
isn't.

testimony given by Jennifer Pariser, a Sony BMG lawyer, who said during an
earlier court case: "when an individual makes a copy of a song for
himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song."

This is when Sherman really went to work on Fisher's story.

"The Sony person who (Fisher) relies on actually misspoke in that trial,"
Sherman said. "I know because I asked her after stories started appearing.
It turns out that she had misheard the question. She thought that this was
a question about illegal downloading when it was actually a question about
ripping CDs. That is not the position of Sony BMG. That is not the
position of that spokesperson. That is not the position of the industry."

Well, of course its not, unless of course it is convenient at a particular
time to enable the RIAA to swindle a Judge and/or jury. But when it makes
the RIAA look bad, then no, its not their position.

Did the Washington Post guy screw up? Maybe. Does the RIAA change its
position on issues when it suits them? No question.
 
J

jim

Bob I said:
If a certain clueless individual didn't crosspost the off topic SPAM in
the first place, the entire issue is moot. I trust we will hear no more of
this drivel in this group.

Perhaps you should learn what SPAM is... According to the Wikipedia entry
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup_spam, "Usenet convention defines
spamming as excessive multiple posting, that is, the repeated posting of a
message (or substantially similar messages). "

Please note that Usenet SPAM is NOT defined as "anything Bob doesn't like or
is not interested in".

ALL of the articles that I have posted have bearing on the vast majority of
the newsgroup readers' lives. In my experience, anything of interest to and
anything that directly affects the readers of any newsgroup is not only
allowable but is greatly appreciated by the vast majority of the readers of
the newsgroup who are not trolls and do not suffer from "Usenet Cop
Syndrome".

I've met people like you "Bob". Let me summarize "Bob" for you......

"Bob" here is most likely a loner; someone who feels a loss of control in
"his" life. He has most likely not acheived anthing even remotely near what
he aspires to and is a very frustrated individual. "Bob" most likely does
not have a very active social life and feels ostracized by social circles
that he aspires to. "Bob" most likely is more comfortable wich machines
than with people. "Bob" most likely does not have many true friends at work
and is the frequent subject of unflattering discussions at his place of
employment. If "Bob" is in a comitted relationship, he most likely feels
abused and trapped in a love-less hell of his own making - having accepted
anyone that he could join with - because he felt he could do no better.

Obviously "Bob" feels the need to assert himself in, most likely, the only
way that he can - by assuming the role of Usenet policeman.

I feel sorry for you "Bob".

jim
 
T

Tom [Pepper] Willett

Jim:

Keep up the good work.

I personally have been following the threads with interest...the information
affects a lot of us who purchase music (and movies).

I do not see it as being SPAM in the strictest definition of the term.
While it may be off topic for the newsgroups, it is definitely of interest.
Those that don't want to read it, don't have to.

If Microsoft determines it is SPAM, they will delete it. But, as a MS MVP,
I don't believe they will.

The topic, BTW, is also going on in threads in some of the private MVP
newsgroups...many MVPs finding it of interest.

I don't have to read SPAM if I don't want to, yet so many people here get
off on replying to a posting that it's SPAM. I'm not a dummy, I know what
spam is.

Tom
:
: ALL of the articles that I have posted have bearing on the vast majority
of
: the newsgroup readers' lives. In my experience, anything of interest to
and
: anything that directly affects the readers of any newsgroup is not only
: allowable but is greatly appreciated by the vast majority of the readers
of
: the newsgroup who are not trolls and do not suffer from "Usenet Cop
: Syndrome".
 
J

jim

Tom [Pepper] Willett said:
Jim:

Keep up the good work.

I personally have been following the threads with interest...the
information
affects a lot of us who purchase music (and movies).

I do not see it as being SPAM in the strictest definition of the term.
While it may be off topic for the newsgroups, it is definitely of
interest.
Those that don't want to read it, don't have to.

If Microsoft determines it is SPAM, they will delete it. But, as a MS
MVP,
I don't believe they will.

The topic, BTW, is also going on in threads in some of the private MVP
newsgroups...many MVPs finding it of interest.

I don't have to read SPAM if I don't want to, yet so many people here get
off on replying to a posting that it's SPAM. I'm not a dummy, I know what
spam is.

Tom

Thanks Tom.

I do try and only post off topic when I think the post is of great interest
to the majority of the readers of a newsgroup. Even then, I limit my posts
to 4 newsgroups that I frequent.

I also mark my off topic posts with "OT:" preceeding the subjects to let
readers know that the subject matter is off topic.

"Bob" could always add me to his killfile and spare himself from my holding
a gun to his head an making him read my posts.

Thanks again, Tom.

jim
 
C

celeryseed

"The Post picked up one sentence in a 21-page brief and then picked the
part of the sentence about ripping CDs onto the computer," Sherman said
during the radio show. "(The Post) simply ignored the part of the sentence
about putting them into a shared folder."

The "shared folder" omission is at the center of what's wrong with
Fisher's story. Anyone who reads the brief can see that the RIAA says over
and over again what it considers to be illegal activity: the distribution
of music files via peer-to-peer networks.


What difference does it make if they're in a Shared folder or not? I've
never had to seed any of my torrents from a Shared folder. I only need
to use a Shared folder when I'm moving files from one of my computers to
the other on my home network.
 
J

John Q. Smith

Thanks jim! Unlike "Bob" I appreciated that update, as I had not heard of
this update to what I thought was the RIAA being completely insane!
 
J

jim

Thank you for posting your thoughts!

jim

John Q. Smith said:
Thanks jim! Unlike "Bob" I appreciated that update, as I had not heard of
this update to what I thought was the RIAA being completely insane!
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top