Unbelievable

[Garry Jones]

I have a NEC Superscript 610plus and it has worked without problems
since 1997. A few weeks ago I purchased a new toner cartridge, only the
third one in 8 years - and I print a lot. The cartridge cost £106,
($184). Now I have upgraded to XP and I tried to install the printer
with the 98 drivers, didn't work. So I tried to download the latest
drivers, there are none. Instead I am greeted by this message...

"The SuperScript 600 series of laser printers were GDI printers, ie only
made for the windows 3.1x/9x GDI interface. Driver for Windows NT, 2000
and XP will not be released. Source:
http://www.nec.se/templates/Page.asp?id=2994

But it also used to print PCL and according to one website the
Superscript was a fast printer because it allowed GDI printing. "GDI
technology makes it unnecessary to translate to a printer language (e.g.
PCL) in the PC and then translate back in the printer." Source:
http://www.de.nec.de/print_faq.php?id=567

According to another website - "Silentwriter isnt supported in windows
NT/2K/XP as microsoft removed GDI driver support and the printer is
unable to emulate PCL 4 or 5" Source:
http://www.driversearch.com/forums/printer/5748.html

So my questions.

What is GDI printing and if it is so great why would Microsoft get rid
of it and waste over £100 of my money. Why don't NEC fix this problem or
offer a free replacement printer if they can't?

Who is to blame Nec or Microsoft?

Yes, I could go back to Win 98, but there the IP telephone program Skype
does not work, so I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't....

And now to the most important question.....
Surely there must be a driver somewhere that is going to allow my
printer to print in XP?

Thanks for any answers

Garry Jones
Sweden

 

[zakezuke]

What is GDI printing and if it is so great why would Microsoft get rid

of it and waste over £100 of my money. Why don't NEC fix this problem or
offer a free replacement printer if they can't?

Microsoft didn't get rid of GDI (Graphical Device Interface), NEC
doesn't make a driver for win2k. The most non technical way to explain
this is... GDI printers are stupid printer that depend on the computers
brains. For example we have the letter "A". On many printers you can
send "A" and it will understand what A is, what it looks like, and slap
"A" on a page. GDI printers don't understand A so the computer draws a
picture of an A and instructs the printer to draw the picture line by
line. There are many GDI printers that work just dandy under win2k...
just not the NEC superscript series.

According to NEC support was dropped due to a lack of support of "GDI
ports" in win2k... franky I have NO clue what that means and it makes
no sense as the Minotla 1100 driver seems to work for the 660+.

http://www.printer-drivers.com/drivers/45/45307.htm

Driver's guide says they have one for 2k
http://www.printer-drivers.com/drivers/77/77829.htm

Who is to blame Nec or Microsoft?

Probally Nec... something changed and they are too lazy to support a 10
year old printer. This happens...

Why don't NEC fix this problem or offer a free replacement printer if they can't?

NEC might not have even made the printer. If they didn't they
probally didn't even make the driver. If this is so they might not
have any right to copy someone elses driver and distribute it on their
own. Could be they gotta shell out bucks to get the reference driver
and they just don't want to. Don't know. I've not seen or heard of an
NEC printer since the 1990s so it's most likely they are just out of
the game and have no interest in supporting their printers, and
unfortunatly since they never advertised the printer would work for 2k
or xp they are under no legal obligation to give you one.

Surely there must be a driver somewhere that is going to allow my
printer to print in XP?

http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=NEC-SuperScript_610plus

I reference the linux listing because it' is possible to print to the
printer so long as it's not the local printer but attached to a win9x
box as a shared printer. The same could hold true for win2k.. but I
don't actually know.

What is GDI printing and if it is so great why would Microsoft get rid
of it and waste over £100 of my money.

Don't listen to marketing... they do their best to make every little
trivial thing sound cooler than sliced bread. GDI printers are simply
stupid printers and because they are stupid they cost less.

 

[JR]

I have a NEC Superscript 610plus and it has worked without problems
since 1997. A few weeks ago I purchased a new toner cartridge, only the
third one in 8 years - and I print a lot. The cartridge cost £106,
($184). Now I have upgraded to XP and I tried to install the printer
with the 98 drivers, didn't work. So I tried to download the latest
drivers, there are none. Instead I am greeted by this message...

"The SuperScript 600 series of laser printers were GDI printers, ie only
made for the windows 3.1x/9x GDI interface. Driver for Windows NT, 2000
and XP will not be released. Source:
http://www.nec.se/templates/Page.asp?id=2994

But it also used to print PCL and according to one website the
Superscript was a fast printer because it allowed GDI printing. "GDI
technology makes it unnecessary to translate to a printer language (e.g.
PCL) in the PC and then translate back in the printer." Source:
http://www.de.nec.de/print_faq.php?id=567

According to another website - "Silentwriter isnt supported in windows
NT/2K/XP as microsoft removed GDI driver support and the printer is
unable to emulate PCL 4 or 5" Source:
http://www.driversearch.com/forums/printer/5748.html

So my questions.

What is GDI printing and if it is so great why would Microsoft get rid
of it and waste over £100 of my money. Why don't NEC fix this problem or
offer a free replacement printer if they can't?

Who is to blame Nec or Microsoft?

Yes, I could go back to Win 98, but there the IP telephone program Skype
does not work, so I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't....

And now to the most important question.....
Surely there must be a driver somewhere that is going to allow my
printer to print in XP?

Thanks for any answers

Garry Jones
Sweden

Have you tried installing in "compatibility mode"? Right click on the
..exe file and chose. I've found it to work about half the time.
Good luck.
HTH,
Frank

 

[ZR]

Couple of months ago, I had to down grade one of my machines to WIN98 in
order to use my NEC 660+ while my Epson CX5400 was dying. I was able to set
it up on the WIN98 machine and print from XP machine. On the XP machine, I
installed one of those HP PLC drivers that come with XP. I don't remember
which one I selected. I tried a few of them, most of them didn't work. I
think your only option is to do what I did. You can get a cheap (even free)
old machine to install WIN98 and network them together.

The 660+ actually worked after few years in the basement. But the toner was
out. I was actually considering to get new toner for it. But the cover was
broken. So I put both the NEC and Epson in the dumpster and get a Cannon
IP4000 (Color Inkjet) and a Brother HL-2070N (B&W Laser with Network). So
far so good.

 

[Burt]

What is GDI printing and if it is so great why would Microsoft get rid
of it and waste over £100 of my money. Why don't NEC fix this problem or
offer a free replacement printer if they can't?

Microsoft didn't get rid of GDI (Graphical Device Interface), NEC
doesn't make a driver for win2k. The most non technical way to explain
this is... GDI printers are stupid printer that depend on the computers
brains. For example we have the letter "A". On many printers you can
send "A" and it will understand what A is, what it looks like, and slap
"A" on a page. GDI printers don't understand A so the computer draws a
picture of an A and instructs the printer to draw the picture line by
line. There are many GDI printers that work just dandy under win2k...
just not the NEC superscript series.

According to NEC support was dropped due to a lack of support of "GDI
ports" in win2k... franky I have NO clue what that means and it makes
no sense as the Minotla 1100 driver seems to work for the 660+.

http://www.printer-drivers.com/drivers/45/45307.htm

Driver's guide says they have one for 2k
http://www.printer-drivers.com/drivers/77/77829.htm

Who is to blame Nec or Microsoft?

Probally Nec... something changed and they are too lazy to support a 10
year old printer. This happens...

Why don't NEC fix this problem or offer a free replacement printer if they
can't?

NEC might not have even made the printer. If they didn't they
probally didn't even make the driver. If this is so they might not
have any right to copy someone elses driver and distribute it on their
own. Could be they gotta shell out bucks to get the reference driver
and they just don't want to. Don't know. I've not seen or heard of an
NEC printer since the 1990s so it's most likely they are just out of
the game and have no interest in supporting their printers, and
unfortunatly since they never advertised the printer would work for 2k
or xp they are under no legal obligation to give you one.

Surely there must be a driver somewhere that is going to allow my
printer to print in XP?

http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=NEC-SuperScript_610plus

I reference the linux listing because it' is possible to print to the
printer so long as it's not the local printer but attached to a win9x
box as a shared printer. The same could hold true for win2k.. but I
don't actually know.

What is GDI printing and if it is so great why would Microsoft get rid
of it and waste over £100 of my money.

Don't listen to marketing... they do their best to make every little
trivial thing sound cooler than sliced bread. GDI printers are simply
stupid printers and because they are stupid they cost less.

As operating systems are upgraded, many perfectly functional devices such as
printers and scanners become useless due to the lack of updated drivers.
Although a person could probably search for drivers prior to the OS upgrade,
I suspect that most people would still opt for the OS upgrade to match the
upgrade in CPU, motherboard, etc. in a newly purchased computer. Add to
this the fact that Microsoft drops p;rofessional IT support of older
versions of Windows on a scheduled basis and you pay the price for progress
(?) by having to buy new peripherals. For businesses that rely on their
computer networks this is just part of the price of doing business, but for
the individual consumer it is a pain in the neck and can also be costly.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You raise a question that I have brought up on numerous occasions with
several printer manufacturers.

I have even attempted to get some industry support to make peripheral
driver support licensed for a minimum of 10 years by manufacturers, but
the truth is manufacturers want to obsolesce their machines to remove
the need to support the printer with supplies, and to force people to
buy another printer.

You should name your views known to NEC, because they are the ones at
fault. MS only supplies drivers they are offered by manufacturers to
include within their driver sets.

Art

 

[John Q.]

I have a NEC Superscript 610plus and it has worked without
...
And now to the most important question.....
Surely there must be a driver somewhere that is going to allow my
printer to print in XP?
...
Garry Jones
Sweden

I found the following footnote on
http://www.bhdist.co.uk/shop/pages/support_610_xp.htm

**As a footnote to this we have been advised that the 660+ will work
with XP drivers for the Minolta 1100L, however we haven't been able to
test them to confirm that this is the case.

HTH

 

[zakezuke]

As operating systems are upgraded, many perfectly functional devices such as

printers and scanners become useless due to the lack of updated drivers.

Unless you choose to buy a postscript printer... that's a pretty sure
fire way to guarantee support in past present and future operating
systems... but to be honest i've only met one postscript inkjet and
that was an oddball IBM unit.

 

[drc023]

Actually it wasn't an IBM unit. The only postscript inkjet I know of was a
Lexmark Optra 40. I had a few of those because it was far cheaper to get
them from buy.com as a source for ink cartridges than it was to buy the
individual cartridges (for use in a Lexmark 5700). At one time that printer
sold for over $500.00 but by the time I was ordering them in 2000 the price
was less than $40.00 with free shipping. A lot of people confuse Lexmark
with IBM. Lexmark was spun off by IBM to a group of venture capitalists in
the late 1980's as a completely independent entity.

 

[zakezuke]

Actually it wasn't an IBM unit. The only postscript inkjet I know of was a

Lexmark Optra 40. I had a few of those because it was far cheaper to get
them from buy.com as a source for ink cartridges than it was to buy the
individual cartridges (for use in a Lexmark 5700).

The unit i'm thinking of wasn't the Lexmark Optra 40... but rather an
ink jet that took inktanks and had tubes running to the head. Not a
toaster style but more of a short breadbox... bottom paper feed. While
I'm sure my memory could be off I seem to remember it had the IBM logo
on it.

 

[drc023]

I'm retired from IBM and can't recall there ever being one, plus I did a
little more digging on Google and still couldn't find any reference to an
IBM postscript inkjet. However, I did find references to a couple of HP's
which might be what you are thinking of. The HP1700 uses individual tanks
and has a bottom feed.

 

[Rob]

I'm retired from IBM and can't recall there ever being one, plus I did a
little more digging on Google and still couldn't find any reference to an
IBM postscript inkjet. However, I did find references to a couple of HP's
which might be what you are thinking of. The HP1700 uses individual tanks
and has a bottom feed.

It was most likely a HP 500 ??? which was like thats paper feed from
the bottom and came back to the top

 

[zakezuke]

I'm retired from IBM and can't recall there ever being one, plus I did a

little more digging on Google and still couldn't find any reference to an
IBM postscript inkjet. However, I did find references to a couple of HP's
which might be what you are thinking of. The HP1700 uses individual tanks
and has a bottom feed.

Time frame would have been pre 2000... in fact the printer was in the
offical junk pile at that time... sort of half way clogged but got it
back into service... came in most handy as the server was running SCO.
If I had to get the tanks were transparent about the 20 to 30ml
range.. huge. I imagine it could have been a Lexmark badged as IBM...
but my memory, my fuzzy memory seems to keep on remembering the IBM
logo badged on the front.

The HP1700 wasn't it. While breadboxed sized I remember an angular
smoked transparent plastic lid reveiling the head and tubes as the
printer worked. What i'm remembering was also about 1/2 the hight of
the hp1700.

 

[Garry Jones]

**As a footnote to this we have been advised that the 660+ will work
with XP drivers for the Minolta 1100L, however we haven't been able to
test them to confirm that this is the case.

Possible, but it didn't work on the 610. Today I bought a new laser. HP
LaserJet 1020, the cheapest laser available in Sweden. It actually cost
$10 less than the cost of the replacement toner cassette for the NEC!
Had I known that 2 months ago, then....

Anyway, thanks for your help and time in looking for this, and everyone
else who answered. I think Windows XP should come with a warning that it
might not be compatible with existing hardware and programs.

Garry

 

[zakezuke]

I think Windows XP should come with a warning that it might not be compatible with

existing hardware and programs.

I thought it did... or at the very least they do keep something that
resembles a hardware compatibility list on their site
http://testedproducts.windowsmarketplace.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

When have we ever been so lucky that a new operating system been 100%
compatible with all peripherals that work on another OS?

In general, the problem is not incompatibility with the hardware,
although that does happen, on occasion. Much more common is that the
drivers don't work, and if the manufacturer doesn't write an updated
driver for the newer OS, then that's who the problem lies with.

In general, your complaint is actually with the manufacturer.

That said, it would be nice if the OS makers were a bit more sensitive
to this and tried as hard as possible to avoid "breaking" drivers with
new OS releases.

There should, in theory, be a way to modularize the OS so that where it
"connects" to the drivers, it could have a translator program that moved
the "calls" around so they could speak to one another. It would slow
down things, but with the processing speeds of today's systems, it
should be possible to make this a minor inconvenience.

I'm not a coder, but in my mind's eye, it seems such a intermediary
program could be developed.

Art