UAC & Startup programs

[Rastaman]

Is there a way to tell UAC that it's OK to run a startup program (in this
case, AVG Anti-Virus) now, and every other time I start my computer?

For the most part, I like UAC, but come on -- It shouldn't need to prompt me
again, once I tell UAC it's OK....

Or maybe this is an "issue" that will be worked out by RTM?

 

[John Barnes]

Very annoying isn't it. I, too, hope it is fixed by RTM. UAC should have a
feature like most firewalls, you have a choice of allow this time or always
allow.

 

[Richard Urban]

Do you even consider the fact that programs you load on your computer "must"
conform to the new standards put in place in Vista? If the program was coded
correctly, it would work.

Funny as how the "beta" version of Avast Antivirus for Vista does not have
this problem. I guess that Avast is coded correctly!

Either wait till the company of your choice gets up to speed or change your
antivirus program. This goes for any program you are trying to load in
Vista. Microsoft has tried to make backward compatibility a priority, but if
certain programs are not coded safely - they won't load/work.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[BChat]

I uninstalled AVG and went with Avast for this very reason.

 

[Frank]

Is there a way to tell UAC that it's OK to run a startup program (in
this case, AVG Anti-Virus) now, and every other time I start my computer?

For the most part, I like UAC, but come on -- It shouldn't need to
prompt me again, once I tell UAC it's OK....

Or maybe this is an "issue" that will be worked out by RTM?

UAC is the very first application that I disable in Vista. However, if
you can't control your own computer then you need UAC, otherwise disable it.
Frank

 

[MICHAEL]

Is there a way to tell UAC that it's OK to run a startup program (in this
case, AVG Anti-Virus) now, and every other time I start my computer?

For the most part, I like UAC, but come on -- It shouldn't need to prompt me
again, once I tell UAC it's OK....

Or maybe this is an "issue" that will be worked out by RTM?

Just turn that dam annoying UAC off.


-Michael

 

[sim.seb]

(in this case, AVG Anti-Virus)

The free AVG works just fine here on my Vista RC1 (after giving it the
proper rights in Firewall, before it was blocked on startup by Defender).
The only time UAC still prompts is for manual update.

But I sure do agree the balance between security and usability is lost in
UAC.

 

[jwardl]

UAC, as I described once before, is rather like having an alarm system on
your home. It is an extra layer of security, but like alarm systems, some
feel the need, others consider them an annoyance.

Just wait, though... I'd wager that some of those who see fit to
intentionally disable it will be among the most vocal in cutting down
Microsoft after Vista is released, complaining that Vista's security still
isn't sufficient, after their system is compromised by some hacker who's
smarter then they are.

Odds, anyone?

 

[John Barnes]

I agree in principle, but it would be better and less likely to be turned
off if it only asked one time and if told 'always allow' it would not ask
again until the program was modified (new version). There is absolutely no
benefit to asking about the exact same action once it has been permanently
approved.

 

[Richard Urban]

Chew on this.

You allow always, say Photoshop, so you don't always get the popup. Now, you
don't use Photoshop very often at all.

Three months from now an exploit comes out that replaces the Photoshop
executable with its own. It has free license to run whenever.

With the UAC enabled, you would get a popup asking for permission. Because
YOU did not initiate this program, a prudent person would deny access.

I will be telling MY customers to leave it enabled - at all costs! And I
will also. I am not smart enough to beat the damn hackers, and I doubt that
anyone can be 100% effective against them. Every little extra bit security
is welcomed on my end.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[jwardl]

Excellent point.

I just hope, for their sakes, all the people who turn it off because "they
know what they're doing" are really as good as they think they are.

Malware "authors" are hoping you aren't -- and in some cases, will be right!

 

[MICHAEL]

What a bunch of poop.

Yes, there are many users who need that annoying extra
protection. Some of us don't. It's not about being brilliant-
most security is just plain fuking common sense. Lock
down IE (which you could do before Vista or UAC), firewall and/or
router, don't open attachments without scanning, stay away from
crap sites, and have good backups.

I know several users who use no real-time AV or other
security software. If they use an AV program it is for on-demand
scanning of a file. You might be surprised how easy it is
to stay uninfected.

1999. That is the last time any of my machines were infected
by a virus/trojan/worm/malware/spyware . You guys keep your
fearware on, I'll keep enjoying my computer without the draconian
hassles.


-Michael

 

[Richard Urban]

You're just soooo good!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[MICHAEL]

Well, I do my best. ;-)

Richard, I appreciate Microsoft making a better effort
at securing the OS. For me, there are several ways to
do that- *without* being harassed by that annoying prompt.
I am always messing around with my computers- being
prompted every single time really is distracting and totally
unnecessary- it takes away from a free flowing user
experience. I guarantee you, UAC is going to be the biggest
complaint from users when Vista is released. The key is
to stop the crapware from ever getting on your machine.
That, really, is not a hard task to accomplish. If you
have Internet Explorer secured (yes, it is easy to do)
and simply do not blindly open attachments- most infections
would *never* happen, and by all means have a firewall.
The combo of a firewall and router is much better.

How long before some hacker writes a program that
mimics the UAC prompts? With some creativity and
trickery, users can be fooled and will be fooled- prompts
thrown at them left and right, confusion sets in. It's
just a matter of time.

I've read for years about the impending doom of the internet
because of malware- much of it, hyped by the security companies
themselves. To me, a lot of it is nothing but good old-fashioned
fear-mongering. I don't accept "protecting me for my own good
or protecting me from myself"- I'll decide the level of protection
I need- as will many other users once they've been annoyed a
few times by UAC.

There's a lot more I could do to secure my house- put bars
on the windows, an alarm system (my three dogs are my alarm),
multiple locks on the doors, build a fence or wall around my
property- but I'm going to do that, it's too much. I'm going to
use some common sense and I will not live in fear. It actually
seems like some folks spend more time trying to secure their
computer than they do their own house.

If the security implementations are a pain in the arse- folks
will stop using them- quick fast and in a hurry. I actually
made an effort through a few builds of Vista to keep UAC on-
to see if I could live with it, I couldn't. I am not anti-security,
just anti-annoying-every time-I fart pop-up-prompts.

To each their own.

Take care,

Michael

 

[John Barnes]

I agree, and the UAC, as firewalls now, could be able to recognise the
change to the PhotoShop executable, in the example. If no change, and
flagged 'always allow', no popup. If changed, present the popup. Also it
should be able to recognise unusual executions. Now, when a different
program tries to execute an outgoing process thru the firewall I am notified
that so-and-so program is trying to execute some outgoing process, do you
want to allow. Shown once if approved. It would then have some meaning
other than an annoyance that will either cause the people that need it most
to turn it off, or to routinely click on it without thinking (unfortunately,
like my wife does now, since she has no idea what is going on. In this case
she is cancelling the A/V updates). Microsoft can claim they have made it
safer, but in reality it is little if any safer.

 

[Guest]

I agree also. On my computer, Windows Defender will not permit me to allow
either AVG or Avast in their entirety. I appreciate extra security, but as I
have found from cleaning & securing people's pc's for internet use, you are
better off having more than one anti-malware program at your disposal before
you actually need it.
I disabled Windows Defender, leaving UAC in place and am successfully and
happily running AVG Anti-malware (AVG with Ewido built in), Win Patrol system
monitor, and A-Squared.
Without Windows Defender blocking my startp security, I was able to fully
utilize either Avast or AVG, "Autoruns" by Sysinternals, and most of my other
favorite/effective security and cleaning tools without a problem.
If there was a way to allow these other crucial security applications with
Windows Defender's compliance, I would have liked to use that as well... but
the "Enable" button would not activate no matter how I set up my user account
or which settings within WinDefender I changed. I like to choose which AV and
Anti-malware, and
system monitoring programs I use.
I love the feel and the look of Vista, and I will be using it alot.

 

[MICHAEL]

You nailed it, John. A few small changes to UAC would make
it bearable for most to use. If UAC stays as it is- many users
will simply turn it off, or, use the *real* admin account. All that
work Microsoft has put into UAC protection will be worthless
once it is turned off.

-Michael

 

[Richard Urban]

Well, I do my best. ;-)

Richard, I appreciate Microsoft making a better effort
at securing the OS. For me, there are several ways to
do that- *without* being harassed by that annoying prompt.
I am always messing around with my computers- being
prompted every single time really is distracting and totally
unnecessary- it takes away from a free flowing user
experience. I guarantee you, UAC is going to be the biggest
complaint from users when Vista is released. The key is
to stop the crapware from ever getting on your machine.
That, really, is not a hard task to accomplish. If you
have Internet Explorer secured (yes, it is easy to do)
and simply do not blindly open attachments- most infections
would *never* happen, and by all means have a firewall.
The combo of a firewall and router is much better.

How long before some hacker writes a program that
mimics the UAC prompts? With some creativity and
trickery, users can be fooled and will be fooled- prompts
thrown at them left and right, confusion sets in. It's
just a matter of time.

I've read for years about the impending doom of the internet
because of malware- much of it, hyped by the security companies
themselves. To me, a lot of it is nothing but good old-fashioned
fear-mongering. I don't accept "protecting me for my own good
or protecting me from myself"- I'll decide the level of protection
I need- as will many other users once they've been annoyed a
few times by UAC.

There's a lot more I could do to secure my house- put bars
on the windows, an alarm system (my three dogs are my alarm),
multiple locks on the doors, build a fence or wall around my
property- but I'm going to do that, it's too much. I'm going to
use some common sense and I will not live in fear. It actually
seems like some folks spend more time trying to secure their
computer than they do their own house.

If the security implementations are a pain in the arse- folks
will stop using them- quick fast and in a hurry. I actually
made an effort through a few builds of Vista to keep UAC on-
to see if I could live with it, I couldn't. I am not anti-security,
just anti-annoying-every time-I fart pop-up-prompts.

To each their own.

Take care,

Michael

Michael,

Please understand that 95% (or more) of the people who use computers haven't
got a clue. Just read a couple of hundred posts here and you will see that.
They are not hobbyists or enthusiasts. They are plain computer users.

Other operating systems, including those that wanderers are always trying to
shove down these poor users throats (Linux), have elevated privileges for
many of their operations. Microsoft is now getting into this class of
operation, and it's about time.

This is what Microsoft is trying to protect for.

Not You!



--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[MICHAEL]

Michael,

Please understand that 95% (or more) of the people who use computers haven't got a clue. Just
read a couple of hundred posts here and you will see that. They are not hobbyists or
enthusiasts. They are plain computer users.

Other operating systems, including those that wanderers are always trying to shove down these
poor users throats (Linux), have elevated privileges for many of their operations. Microsoft
is now getting into this class of operation, and it's about time.

This is what Microsoft is trying to protect for.

Not You!

Okay, Richard.

When many users turn off UAC because it is
overbearing- they'll still be users without a clue
and unprotected. Mission unaccomplished.


-Michael

 

[Richard Urban]

Those 95% of all users will not know "how" to turn of UAC, any more than
they know how to change system sounds etc.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!