M
MuckySlush
Perhaps someone would be so kind as to simplify rather than complicate this
ongoing email disaster in Vista.
I'm trying to "tough it out" and learn to deal with Vista's strange and,
from my viewpoint, totally unwelcome new "problems". However email has to
just WORK, and windows email under vista seems to be a sorry disaster. It
gets hung way too often and the only thing I can do is to ctl-alt-del and
kill it off and let it start again.
After reading through this news group, I and heartened to discover that it
probably isn't something I'm doing wrong, and that I have a lot of company.
I may be triggering its problems more than some because I only use IMAP4
servers (why anyone would suffer POP3 these days confounds me), and have
over 600 folders a few of which (technical group mailing lists, and trade
association related) have a lot of messages. I have a personal rule to never
let any folder get over 50,000 messages, and to find some useful way to
split off or subdivide in to keep to that limit. I think perhaps that seemed
to be the size where OE would start getting a little too pesky.
If I wanted to take perhaps the oldest 30,000 messages with OE from a folder
and move them to a date range tagged subfolder, one used to be able to
highlight the ones you wanted to move and hit ctl-shift-v and you either
picked an existing folder or created a new one and they were on their way. A
few seconds to start that rolling. That could be moving to the same email
server, or a different one. And I could do it at home or my desk at work, or
my laptop ANYWHERE with OE, and any machine I use would see the same folders
and contents - ALWAYS.
Some user here on this list had a problem that was screaming for IMAP's
"folders all on server" as the obvious and very simple solution. Finally one
of the MVPs mentioned IMAP. Dump your email vendor if they don't support it.
GMAIL is FREE and supports it (as of last fall).
And finally I started reading here about this new "LIVE" product that is
where the support is. Then others are saying NEVER go there. What is going
on? LIVE to most folks refers to the bootable CD/DVD/USB-Flashstick that
lets you run some complete OS without having it installed on your hard
drive. BartPE lets you do that with windows. NLite and Vlite are not that
but let you build a microsoft windows install CD/DVD without crap you don't
want/need, and with whatever else you want, and with whatever registry
obscure settings you need to make to have a windows one can live with. In
the Corporate Volume License Agreement area, you can stick in the one
license key the company uses and then distribute this as the master install
disc to all branch offices, and have then do installs that are pretuned as
you please and without the crap you don't need. If MS licensing would
actually allow vista users to upgrade to OE, perhaps tools of this sort
would make it easier to do. So why they pick "LIVE" as a name that reminds
one of spiffy non-ms products is amusing.
IF I dare try the MS LIVE email, can I remove it and get back to the current
windows email disaster intact, or will I have permanently sawed off some
branch I'm now standing on? I certainly do NOT want all their "cutsie"
features. I'm just looking for a solid working email package that WORKS! and
that is supported by the vendor. Having an integral text editor of the
quality of DEC's EDT or TPU pretending to be EDT is just a dream, but I
suspect many who KNOW would agree.
MS basically dropped the ball with OE, but it was FAST! I could click of any
column heading and get a new sort order instantly. Really needed a way to
click a sequence of columns and get sorts within sorts, but that is probably
too much to have wished for. And they have dropped the ball with windows
mail again! They BROKE OE! Some idiots at many levels deserve to be fired.
Arrogantly breaking faith with the public could KILL your company - just ask
DEC.
Mozilla or variants isn't all that bad, and lets me auto-sort various high
volume mailing lists into their respective folders, so runs in parallel on
one machine all the time. It too has "issues" and forever it seems someone
thought sent date rather than received date was all you had to display or
sort by. That alone was a perfect reason to never ever use it exclusively.
They finally have supposedly fixed
that.
Microsoft was having a tizzy about windows mail could only be run on vista
and you shouldn't try to put it on XP - you were not licensed to - and they
have totally missed the boat! I could care less about running it. I could
care less about vista, too, for that matter, except on work issued machines
that come with vista and it is a pain to have to upgrade to XP or even
better yet to W2K. If I'm semi-stuck with vista on some machines, at least
make it trivially possible to run OE with Explorer 6 and NOT higher.
I probably should be running VMWare and then put up guest machines that suit
my pleasure, but for now, is there a short sweat crystal clear list of
things that will solve my problems and probably everyone elses's:
1) can I run OE on vista - HOW
2) is there a single complete list of all patches/updates to windows mail
that will at least make windows mail work?
3) if one tries the LIVE product is there a simple safe guaranteed to work
exit back to windows mail that is short of a full backup of that client
machine?
4) technically legal in some cases for non-"home" versions of windows, make
it in your face CLEAR and SIMPLE to upgrade a bought preinstalled VISTA
disaster to XP-Pro or even better W2KPro, for joe q queless who should not
be having these issues if MS was taking proper care of their customers
rather than their piggy-bank.
The sad thing about W2K is being stuck at 4k cluster size on the even larger
than 1T disks about to surface. W2K is the last good ms OS before the
crap-for-peeeons arrived and peonies became someting other than a flowering
plant.
Before someone mentions Outlook, I'll mention the ONE thing I like about it.
I can click and COPY any folder that has many subfolders from one IMAP
server to another just like that, and all folders and all their contents get
moved. The rest of the crap and the exchange server issues - NO INTEREST. I
have many friends that love it, but not exchange. BTW, if your company is
stuck on using Outlook, and you are less than pleased with having Exchange
Server or that is what kept you from using Outlook, realise that an
extremely high quality email server (carrier class with clusters of clusters
on over 30 different operating systems, even) is Communigate Pro from
Stalker. It lets you run Outlook features that normally would demand
exchange. HQ and domestic support is in Califirnia, but the programmers are
in Russia. This is the quality MS can only dream of, IMHO, and internal
politics, greed, and arrogance (or whatever it is that MS runs on) will keep
them from ever coming even close - just look at the vista disaster!. NB the
major institutions that use CGPro...
ongoing email disaster in Vista.
I'm trying to "tough it out" and learn to deal with Vista's strange and,
from my viewpoint, totally unwelcome new "problems". However email has to
just WORK, and windows email under vista seems to be a sorry disaster. It
gets hung way too often and the only thing I can do is to ctl-alt-del and
kill it off and let it start again.
After reading through this news group, I and heartened to discover that it
probably isn't something I'm doing wrong, and that I have a lot of company.
I may be triggering its problems more than some because I only use IMAP4
servers (why anyone would suffer POP3 these days confounds me), and have
over 600 folders a few of which (technical group mailing lists, and trade
association related) have a lot of messages. I have a personal rule to never
let any folder get over 50,000 messages, and to find some useful way to
split off or subdivide in to keep to that limit. I think perhaps that seemed
to be the size where OE would start getting a little too pesky.
If I wanted to take perhaps the oldest 30,000 messages with OE from a folder
and move them to a date range tagged subfolder, one used to be able to
highlight the ones you wanted to move and hit ctl-shift-v and you either
picked an existing folder or created a new one and they were on their way. A
few seconds to start that rolling. That could be moving to the same email
server, or a different one. And I could do it at home or my desk at work, or
my laptop ANYWHERE with OE, and any machine I use would see the same folders
and contents - ALWAYS.
Some user here on this list had a problem that was screaming for IMAP's
"folders all on server" as the obvious and very simple solution. Finally one
of the MVPs mentioned IMAP. Dump your email vendor if they don't support it.
GMAIL is FREE and supports it (as of last fall).
And finally I started reading here about this new "LIVE" product that is
where the support is. Then others are saying NEVER go there. What is going
on? LIVE to most folks refers to the bootable CD/DVD/USB-Flashstick that
lets you run some complete OS without having it installed on your hard
drive. BartPE lets you do that with windows. NLite and Vlite are not that
but let you build a microsoft windows install CD/DVD without crap you don't
want/need, and with whatever else you want, and with whatever registry
obscure settings you need to make to have a windows one can live with. In
the Corporate Volume License Agreement area, you can stick in the one
license key the company uses and then distribute this as the master install
disc to all branch offices, and have then do installs that are pretuned as
you please and without the crap you don't need. If MS licensing would
actually allow vista users to upgrade to OE, perhaps tools of this sort
would make it easier to do. So why they pick "LIVE" as a name that reminds
one of spiffy non-ms products is amusing.
IF I dare try the MS LIVE email, can I remove it and get back to the current
windows email disaster intact, or will I have permanently sawed off some
branch I'm now standing on? I certainly do NOT want all their "cutsie"
features. I'm just looking for a solid working email package that WORKS! and
that is supported by the vendor. Having an integral text editor of the
quality of DEC's EDT or TPU pretending to be EDT is just a dream, but I
suspect many who KNOW would agree.
MS basically dropped the ball with OE, but it was FAST! I could click of any
column heading and get a new sort order instantly. Really needed a way to
click a sequence of columns and get sorts within sorts, but that is probably
too much to have wished for. And they have dropped the ball with windows
mail again! They BROKE OE! Some idiots at many levels deserve to be fired.
Arrogantly breaking faith with the public could KILL your company - just ask
DEC.
Mozilla or variants isn't all that bad, and lets me auto-sort various high
volume mailing lists into their respective folders, so runs in parallel on
one machine all the time. It too has "issues" and forever it seems someone
thought sent date rather than received date was all you had to display or
sort by. That alone was a perfect reason to never ever use it exclusively.
They finally have supposedly fixed
that.
Microsoft was having a tizzy about windows mail could only be run on vista
and you shouldn't try to put it on XP - you were not licensed to - and they
have totally missed the boat! I could care less about running it. I could
care less about vista, too, for that matter, except on work issued machines
that come with vista and it is a pain to have to upgrade to XP or even
better yet to W2K. If I'm semi-stuck with vista on some machines, at least
make it trivially possible to run OE with Explorer 6 and NOT higher.
I probably should be running VMWare and then put up guest machines that suit
my pleasure, but for now, is there a short sweat crystal clear list of
things that will solve my problems and probably everyone elses's:
1) can I run OE on vista - HOW
2) is there a single complete list of all patches/updates to windows mail
that will at least make windows mail work?
3) if one tries the LIVE product is there a simple safe guaranteed to work
exit back to windows mail that is short of a full backup of that client
machine?
4) technically legal in some cases for non-"home" versions of windows, make
it in your face CLEAR and SIMPLE to upgrade a bought preinstalled VISTA
disaster to XP-Pro or even better W2KPro, for joe q queless who should not
be having these issues if MS was taking proper care of their customers
rather than their piggy-bank.
The sad thing about W2K is being stuck at 4k cluster size on the even larger
than 1T disks about to surface. W2K is the last good ms OS before the
crap-for-peeeons arrived and peonies became someting other than a flowering
plant.
Before someone mentions Outlook, I'll mention the ONE thing I like about it.
I can click and COPY any folder that has many subfolders from one IMAP
server to another just like that, and all folders and all their contents get
moved. The rest of the crap and the exchange server issues - NO INTEREST. I
have many friends that love it, but not exchange. BTW, if your company is
stuck on using Outlook, and you are less than pleased with having Exchange
Server or that is what kept you from using Outlook, realise that an
extremely high quality email server (carrier class with clusters of clusters
on over 30 different operating systems, even) is Communigate Pro from
Stalker. It lets you run Outlook features that normally would demand
exchange. HQ and domestic support is in Califirnia, but the programmers are
in Russia. This is the quality MS can only dream of, IMHO, and internal
politics, greed, and arrogance (or whatever it is that MS runs on) will keep
them from ever coming even close - just look at the vista disaster!. NB the
major institutions that use CGPro...