To Linus or not to Linus???

[Dookus]

Hello good people.
I normally post as Zaphod .. but I recently got an ISP with newsgroup access
... how marvellous is this .. though I still use google groups extensively
while at home and away from home ..
But my statement and question is this.
I have (or thought I had) all the programs I need whether I had paid for
them or used freeware, however yesterday I'm busy producing some extra stuff
for my web page, I use FP 2000 (as I own it) .. came with office 2000..
mostly I create fairly simple pages .. I try to keep full control over how
the page works .. I create a txt doc and give it a name with the .html
extension .. open it up and edit it, when saving it all the time making sure
that FP .. (like all Microsoft programs can tend to do) does NOT add to it
and control the document in any way pther than how I choose.. (had many a
disappointing outcome because I let frontapage make a web and things didn't
turn out as I would have liked) but yesterday I decided to make a new
section for my web site... new framed pages (very exciting).. just a simple
two framed page ... links to navigate throughout that section and back to
the older section in the left pain ... now here's where I was disappointed,
my mind wondered to times where I had more time and would set up a PC and
use a Distro ... After many frustrating hours of building the main framed
page of the new section then making the other pages that would be linked to,
I find that FP2000 would always add and extra left frame on the new pages
when I tested it .. I searched the newgroup(s) (still awaiting permission to
use one of them .. and there was only one public one I could find) and the
internet with no solution .. I tried different things .. expasperated I
swore .. wondered why a WYSIWYG program would make something that's
different to the way it looks while being created.. gave up and realised I
needed to go home ..

So my point is .. should I find time to enjoy a LINUS distribution and use a
free HTML wysywig editor that's feature rich, gives full control over
content created .. should I grow my hair long and wear sacks and eat
potatoes (which even though I'm quite bald and grey would be more desirable
than having a stroke) ... I know this sort of post will bring forward the
flames of hell and the religiously devout will came forth to battle and say
strong words formed between gritted teeth .... but truly .. what is
Microsoft thinking when they create supposedly high end graphical editors
that do such a poor job ... (this being said by someone who loves many of
the "ease of use" aspects of Windows.

hopefully awaiting well considered answers from people who are relaxed (and
if not relaxed .. please take your medication before forming an
answer.......I did before writing this)
thanks you

 

[Mark Warner]

So my point is .. should I find time to enjoy a LINUS distribution

Yes.

I recommend SimplyMEPIS. The last stable version is v3.4-3, and the
Ubuntu Dapper-based alphas are getting rave reviews.

http://mepis.org/
http://www.mepis.org/node/1462
http://ftp.wustl.edu/pub/linux/distributions/mepis/

 

[El Bandolero]

Il Sat, 22 Apr 2006 03:03:58 GMT, Dookus ha scritto:

enjoy a LINUS distribution

I think that a Charlie Brown distribution would work much better

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Dookus,

If Linux had appeared twenty years ago, then it would be number one
today. Windows has nearly two decades of marketing, acceptance and use
in the global market for computers. Too many companies and people have
closed "retirement-assuring" contracts using MS Office and MS Windows
to switch over to Linux right now.

Linux is a great OS and it is free and (IMHO) it is superior to
Windows. Linux applications are free, open source, and superior to
Windows applications. The problem is that the vast majority of the
world uses Windows and doesn't want to spend any money or time and
effort to retrain their employees and/or family memebers on new
software that does the same job but does it differently. People work
faster with tools that they already know---even if it means rejecting a
new and superior product that will do that job better.

Businesses live in marketing-quarters, not fiscal years or whole
decades. Long-term and foresight are usually forgotten when the
stockholders want substantial returns in 90 days or less. No CEO will
seal his or her doom by authorizing Linux software that none of the
employees know how to use when the Board of Directors wants a dividend
posted by the end of the month. Windows is here to stay because it got
here first with the best price and the best marketing campaign.

Humans have a tendency to choose the path that is better marketed,
rather than the better path. Past examples are Edison over Tesla, Ford
over Edsel, cotton over hemp, VHS over Beta...you get the idea.

Windows is such an institution in the experience of computing that we
compare superior operating systems to it as if it were the standard to
beat. You'll see phrases in posts and responses that imply that Linux
is good but it doesn't have what Windows has, or Windows does the same
job quicker or easier, or Linux hasn't caught up with Windows yet.
IMHO, the truth is that Linux is better---but Linux doesn't rule the
marketplace---Windows does, but only because it had a head start on
Linux of nearly 20 years.

If you'd like to install a distro of Linux, go for it. (Let me
recommend a Live CD that also contains applications instead of a full
OS installer.) You'll discover how wonderful Linux and its applications
can be. You'll also spend a few minutes in lamentations when you
realize that Linux was the path that should have been taken, but Linux
wasn't available when the companies and the families bought their
computers all those years ago and trained their employees and family
members to use them.

Linux is the future. But don't look for Windows to become extinct
anytime soon.

 

[elaich]

So my point is .. should I find time to enjoy a LINUS distribution

Do you want your Linus install with or without the security blanket? Do you
want it with or without Lucy?

 

[Craig]

Dookus wrote:
....

So my point is .. should I find time to enjoy a LINUS distribution and use a
free HTML wysywig editor that's feature rich...

Damn dude;

That's some serious prose! Don't worry about switching OS *and* app for
chrissakes! Just stop working with frames. Use css. You don't even
have to bother learning css, per se.

Stu Nicholls' work on layouts rocks: cssplay.co.uk/layouts/index.html.
Try Nvu. Nice graphical interface (don't worry about the code so much).

After you've gotten a feel for coding xhtml/css that validates, then
consider changing operating systems. (And, take a hint, Mark is always
flogging Mepis...he's hooked!).

Take your time. Focus on one issue at a time.

let us know how it turns out,
-Craig

 

[Dookus]

Do you want your Linus install with or without the security blanket? Do
you
want it with or without Lucy?

HE HE .. I already have the security blanket .. My linus (Linux of course)
smoothwall .. And I was envisioning Lucy lu just before I drifted of into a
endorfine induced sleep last night )).. So I supppose I'm already there!!!

 

[Man-wai Chang]

Your problems are exactly related to operating systems (ie Linux vs
Window$), but the tools you are using.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision. SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 5.10) Linux 2.6.16.8
^ ^ 18:06:01 up 2 days 21:49 load average: 1.01 1.04 1.01
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

 

[John Jay Smith]

I did not read your post with detail... but I would suggest to use every
technology
available to you to achieve the results you want...

As a creator of many things, I care not what a program or OS is called.. as
long as it helps me
create and produce magnificent things....

 

[Dookus]

YES .. but my solution may be to switch rather than pay !!! again!!!

 

[Mark Carter]

Just stop working with frames.

Indeed. Frames are so previous-millenium anyway.

Try Nvu.

Indeed. No need to switch to Linux just because you want a freeware
webpage editor.

is always
flogging Mepis

I ran into package compatability problems with Mepis. Ubuntu seems the
better way to go, IMHO.

 

[Mark Warner]

(And, take a hint, Mark is
always flogging Mepis...he's hooked!).

I can quit any time I want.

 

[Mark Warner]

I ran into package compatability problems with Mepis. Ubuntu seems the
better way to go, IMHO.

Come early June, after Dapper goes final, they'll both be using the same
packages. Best of both worlds.

 

[beenthere]

Hello good people.
I normally post as Zaphod .. but I recently got an ISP with newsgroup
access .. how marvellous is this .. though I still use google groups
extensively while at home and away from home ..
But my statement and question is this.
I have (or thought I had) all the programs I need whether I had paid for
them or used freeware, however yesterday I'm busy producing some extra
stuff for my web page, I use FP 2000 (as I own it) .. came with office
2000.. mostly I create fairly simple pages .. I try to keep full control
over how the page works .. I create a txt doc and give it a name with the
.html extension .. open it up and edit it, when saving it all the time
making sure that FP .. (like all Microsoft programs can tend to do) does
NOT add to it and control the document in any way pther than how I
choose.. (had many a disappointing outcome because I let frontapage make
a web and things didn't turn out as I would have liked) but yesterday I
decided to make a new section for my web site... new framed pages (very
exciting).. just a simple two framed page ... links to navigate throughout
that section and back to the older section in the left pain ... now here's
where I was disappointed, my mind wondered to times where I had more time
and would set up a PC and use a Distro ... After many frustrating hours of
building the main framed page of the new section then making the other
pages that would be linked to, I find that FP2000 would always add and
extra left frame on the new pages when I tested it .. I searched the
newgroup(s) (still awaiting permission to use one of them .. and there was
only one public one I could find) and the internet with no solution .. I
tried different things .. expasperated I swore .. wondered why a WYSIWYG
program would make something that's different to the way it looks while
being created.. gave up and realised I needed to go home ..

So my point is .. should I find time to enjoy a LINUS distribution and use
a sniiped some

hopefully awaiting well considered answers from people who are relaxed
(and if not relaxed .. please take your medication before forming an
answer.......I did before writing this)
thanks you

I`ve just tried for the fifth time to install a version of Linux,
and for the fifth time I`ve failed.
The reason ?.
I`ve got a Creative x-fi sound card, and it`s not supported !
I`ve got a Printer\Scanner\Copier that`s not properly supported !
Both these items work perfectly in XP.
Of course Linux is OK if your hardware fits, but check it out
first.

 

[Achim Nolcken Lohse]

Hi Dookus,

If Linux had appeared twenty years ago, then it would be number one
today. Windows has nearly two decades of marketing, acceptance and use
in the global market for computers. Too many companies and people have
closed "retirement-assuring" contracts using MS Office and MS Windows
to switch over to Linux right now.

Linux is a great OS and it is free and (IMHO) it is superior to
Windows. Linux applications are free, open source, and superior to
Windows applications. The problem is that the vast majority of the
world uses Windows and doesn't want to spend any money or time and
effort to retrain their employees and/or family memebers on new
software that does the same job but does it differently.

No, not quite. The problem is that Linux has crappy quality control,
and it's gotten steadily worse. Whereas a decade ago the distribution
publishers bragged about the ability to run on older hardware, now
it's easier to run Windows on a seven or ten-year old PC than Linux.

Quality control is so shoddy, that I've even downloaded a Redhat
version two or three years ago in which they simply neglected to
include the floppy image (it was listed in the index, but wasn't
there). When I went to the Redhat website looking for an errata
message, there was nothing. I had to get the image from some private
website in the Czech Republic to install the distro on a PC without a
bootable CD-ROM.

But I've encountered similar problems with Mandrake, Caldera, and
other big name Linux distributions.

Furthermore, big distributions like Red Hat demand constant upgrades
if you want security updates. Only a few years ago, Red Hat still
supported versions that were four or five years old. Last time I
bothered to check, you were cut off in less than 12 months. So you
absolutely need a broadband connection to keep your OS secure.


Almost forgot to mention - Linux documentation is a joke.

 

[Achim Nolcken Lohse]

Yes.

I recommend SimplyMEPIS. The last stable version is v3.4-3

Does it have a floppy boot image that includes PCMCIA support?

I've been trying for years to find a live-CD linux that will run on my
CD-less laptop (ie. off an external SCSI CD-ROM drive connected to a
PCMCIA SCSI host adaptor), and can make do with only 96MB of RAM (it's
a CF-25 Toughbook).

 

[Craig]

sniiped some


I`ve just tried for the fifth time to install a version of Linux,
and for the fifth time I`ve failed.
The reason ?.
I`ve got a Creative x-fi sound card, and it`s not supported !
I`ve got a Printer\Scanner\Copier that`s not properly supported !
Both these items work perfectly in XP.
Of course Linux is OK if your hardware fits, but check it out
first.

[OT ALERT! OT]

This is a stellar piece of advice for those looking to *use* Linux as
opposed to "take it for a spin," etc.

For the last few years, whenever I've bought hardware I try to get stuff
that will work w/*nix & Linux as well. For printers/scanners, for
example, I've gone to:

http://www.linuxprinting.org/

Of course, not every printer is listed but, the overall discussion and
grading of *nix support gives a really accurate projection of how well a
device will work under *nix.

fwiw,
-Craig

 

[Art]

sniiped some


I`ve just tried for the fifth time to install a version of Linux,
and for the fifth time I`ve failed.
The reason ?.
I`ve got a Creative x-fi sound card, and it`s not supported !
I`ve got a Printer\Scanner\Copier that`s not properly supported !
Both these items work perfectly in XP.
Of course Linux is OK if your hardware fits, but check it out
first.

[OT ALERT! OT]

This is a stellar piece of advice for those looking to *use* Linux as
opposed to "take it for a spin," etc.

For the last few years, whenever I've bought hardware I try to get stuff
that will work w/*nix & Linux as well. For printers/scanners, for
example, I've gone to:

http://www.linuxprinting.org/

Of course, not every printer is listed but, the overall discussion and
grading of *nix support gives a really accurate projection of how well a
device will work under *nix.

I've never looked into Linux, but yesterday I tried Ubuntu. I was
pleasantly surprised at the ease of installation. I immediately had
sound and 32 bit high color without any fuss about drivers. The snag
was Network. Out of the three possibilities (I have DSL service and
normally use a wireless adapter on this PC) I couldn't get any to
work ... neither wireless nor DSL modem nor dialup.

I might pursue Ubuntu further since it kinda intrigues me. It strikes
me as a really nice "mom and pop" OS, providing certain essentials
of the internet (FF browser plus email), entertainment (comes with
music/CD player ... and some games), and a Office suite. I would want
a decent newsreader but not much else extra.

Art
http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Achim Nolcken Lohse]

sniiped some


I`ve just tried for the fifth time to install a version of Linux,
and for the fifth time I`ve failed.
The reason ?.
I`ve got a Creative x-fi sound card, and it`s not supported !
I`ve got a Printer\Scanner\Copier that`s not properly supported !
Both these items work perfectly in XP.
Of course Linux is OK if your hardware fits, but check it out
first.

[OT ALERT! OT]

This is a stellar piece of advice for those looking to *use* Linux as
opposed to "take it for a spin," etc.

Well, it's the best reason for taking it for a spin via a "live-CD"
distribution.

In fact, you can't rely on the hardware compatibility lists either, at
least not when they refer to older hardware.

I discovered the hard way that essential device drivers that had been
working for years in the Linux installers somehow get corrupted
migrating from one version to another, and are never fixed, probably
because the developpers don't use the hardware anymore themselves,
don't give a hoot about it, and don't ever bother to test the
installer to see if it still works for all the methods "documented".

I ran into this problem a few years ago while trying to install Linux
on a laptop without an internal CD-ROM. I didn't have broadband
available, so a net install was out. By turns I tried to install a
dozen versions of several distributions via Backpack CD-ROM (ie.
parallel port), PCMCIA SCSI adapter, and finally via Hard Drive
install.

All of these methods were documented as working with the devices I
had. It took several days, some all nighters, and I finally got one
single distro to install (I believe it was Red Hat 7.1 or 7.2), and
then only by improvising. And then I found out that the kernel was
defective, and wouldn't boot! I then had to go online to download the
repaired kernel, redo the install, and then replace the kernel before
shutting down.

But it was all a waste of time anyway, because I could never find out
how to get the sound chip working.

So you don't only need to check for hardware compatibility, you also
have to check the errata to see if there isn't some fatal flaw that
will make the distro unusable on your PC.

And even that is no guarantee. One of my earlier installations of Red
Hat turned into a terrible ordeal because both the print manual and
the Red Hat site said very explicitly that a certain video card was
supported by an included commercial driver.

I knocked myself out trying to find out why I couldn't get a graphic
interface. The distro was already a couple of years old (still
"supported", and still widely used, since it was one of the more
stable ones -5.1, I think), so it never occurred to me that the
information on the website would not have been corrected by then.

But that's exactly what I found out when I finally contacted the
publisher of the driver. Red Hat had made a mistake and never
corrected it. And I had wasted my time for nothing trying to do the
impossible because I trusted those bozos (the publisher grandly
offered to sell me the driver for more than I'd paid for my whole host
system). I finally got the distro installed by buying another video
card. And no - it wasn't all worth it in the end.


Save yourself a lot of frustration and go with distros that offer a
Live-CD version. I just did this with Suse 9.1 Professional recently.

A friend had given me his boxed set, and I downloaded the Live-CD
version. I popped the Live-CD in my main desktop's DVD drive (this is
the only one of four systems I run that supports bootable CDs) and
watched it boot up in verbose mode (where you see the startup process
described textually). It got about five minutes into the process and
stalled. Who knows why? There were no error messages, everything had
gone swimmingly up to that point. The only red line was that Suse
couldn't find any pcmcia devices.

I popped the Live-CD out and gave it and the whole Suse 9.1 box to an
acquaintance the next day (with a warning, of course). After trying
the Suse Live-CD, I tried Knoppix 3.8 on the same system, and it
booted up and ran without a hitch, unless you count the fact that in
twenty minutes of trying I couldn't figure out how to load a jpeg file
into GIMP (tip - don't bother trying drag and drop).

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 03:03:58 GMT, "Dookus"

< snip >

Charlie Brown, or Lucy, should be able to tell you anything you
want to know about Linus.