This is the End . . . .

[jt3]

I probably should stay out of this 'private' spat but, he really was
pointing at your suggestion that objecting to the Patriot Act was paranoid.
His objections WRT that are essentially factual--it just comes down to how
much personal liberty you feel necessary.

While I don't feel that WPA or PA in general means that MS is assuming I'm a
thief, I do think that they aren't very concerned about the inconvenience it
may cause, and the general level of aggravation causing users to want to
find alternatives.

Seems to me that as the user learning curve for various flavors of Linux
gets flatter, many will jump the MS user ship, not exactly good long-term
strategy.

Perhaps Alias means that assuming guilt before proof seems too much the same
as WPA.

One could argue, and I'm sure MS has, that practicality (on their part)
argues simplicity.

An alternative would be to accept a looser constraint with the acceptance of
a certain level of illicit usage, without trying to seem the local bully.
Even better, might be, you can only get updates if you pass the test, not
that you can't use the product unless you do.

J

 

[Alias]

Please point to the paragraph/section of the PA that permits locking
people up without recourse - I can't find such in it.

And you won't. You claimed that the Patriot Act doesn't violate people's
rights. I pointed out that it does. PA has nothing to do with that,
obviously.

That people feel like MS is assuming their a thief because they are
required to activate or use WGA. Only paranoid people seem to feel that.

The reason for PA and WGA is what, then?

Alias

 

[Leythos]

The reason for PA and WGA is what, then?

To try and validate installations such that abusers don't easily get
away with multiple installs.

When I asked my dear old mother-in-law if she felt it was or was not MS
assuming she was a thief for requiring her to activate Windows, she said
"No, why would anyone think that.....", she also mentioned that many
other applications require an activation method/key and that she thought
it was they way of protecting their investment....

 

[Alias]

To try and validate installations such that abusers don't easily get
away with multiple installs.

As the crackers have proved, it doesn't work and only inconveniences the
paying customer.

When I asked my dear old mother-in-law if she felt it was or was not MS
assuming she was a thief for requiring her to activate Windows, she said
"No, why would anyone think that.....", she also mentioned that many
other applications require an activation method/key and that she thought
it was they way of protecting their investment....

From thieves. Do you have a logic problem, Leythos?

Alias

 

[Leythos]

As the crackers have proved, it doesn't work and only inconveniences the
paying customer.

I buy about 500 licenses seats for XP every year, most are OEM, only a
few are VL, and I've never felt inconvenienced, not once. Even when
changing hardware and asked to re-activate, I've not felt
inconvenienced, and none of the people I personally know that have
encountered it do either. Not everyone is looking for a problem like you
and some of the others.

From thieves. Do you have a logic problem, Leythos?

Do you have a problem with a vendor trying to protect their investment?
I don't and I don't consider my being asked to enter a valid key as MS
assuming that I'm a thief - we're done, I won't change my position to
allow your delusions / paranoia to spread to me.

 

[Alias]

I buy about 500 licenses seats for XP every year, most are OEM, only a
few are VL, and I've never felt inconvenienced, not once. Even when
changing hardware and asked to re-activate, I've not felt
inconvenienced, and none of the people I personally know that have
encountered it do either. Not everyone is looking for a problem like you
and some of the others.

Some people, like you, like to mess with computers and jump through MS'
activation/advantage hoops. Other want to *use* their computer, not jump
through hoops. And, if you ever read MS newsgroups, you would see that
many times these anti piracy programs mess up and cause the end user to
do a tad more than enter a number in a field.

Do you have a problem with a vendor trying to protect their investment?

WGA and WPA *doesn't* protect it as the crackers have proved time and
time again. MS made *billions* with "unprotected" programs like
everything before XP so your point is moot.

I don't and I don't consider my being asked to enter a valid key as MS
assuming that I'm a thief - we're done, I won't change my position to
allow your delusions / paranoia to spread to me.

So, if MS isn't protecting their investment from thieves, just who are
they protecting their investment from?

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Some people, like you, like to mess with computers and jump through MS'
activation/advantage hoops. Other want to *use* their computer, not jump
through hoops. And, if you ever read MS newsgroups, you would see that
many times these anti piracy programs mess up and cause the end user to
do a tad more than enter a number in a field.

I don't jump through anything. I DO NOT HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH PA/WGA. I
work with systems and changes all day long, we design networks and
wipe/reinstall all the time, and PA is not an issue.

For people that are not technical, that "just want to use their
computers", they only see PA once, unless they make significant changes
to their systems or they corrupt the OS through any number of means.

One thing to consider, with the numbers of PA necessary systems in the
world, it would seem that PA is not really the issue you are making it,
or people would opt for another OS. I don't think I can recall a single
person I've talked to (other than in Usenet) that has complained about
PA, not once.

WGA and WPA *doesn't* protect it as the crackers have proved time and
time again. MS made *billions* with "unprotected" programs like
everything before XP so your point is moot.

Sure it works, I've seen business users unable to make 5 installs of XP
and Office from the same key... I've also seen home users try and pirate
another copy and be unable to do so... It's the casual pirate they are
blocking in most cases.

So, if MS isn't protecting their investment from thieves, just who are
they protecting their investment from?

You misunderstand, they ARE protecting it from thieves, you just don't
see the real world.

 

[Alias]

I don't jump through anything. I DO NOT HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH PA/WGA. I
work with systems and changes all day long, we design networks and
wipe/reinstall all the time, and PA is not an issue.

LOL! You LIE.

For people that are not technical, that "just want to use their
computers", they only see PA once, unless they make significant changes
to their systems or they corrupt the OS through any number of means.

Or if they change too much hardware or uninstall a program or ...

One thing to consider, with the numbers of PA necessary systems in the
world, it would seem that PA is not really the issue you are making it,
or people would opt for another OS. I don't think I can recall a single
person I've talked to (other than in Usenet) that has complained about
PA, not once.

See here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate?lnk=srgg&hl=en

Windows Genuine Advantage is causing all kinds of problems for end
users. The fact that you fluff it off as "on usenet" writes volumes
about your supposed "integrity".

Sure it works, I've seen business users unable to make 5 installs of XP
and Office from the same key... I've also seen home users try and pirate
another copy and be unable to do so... It's the casual pirate they are
blocking in most cases.

I've seen end users call their favorite cracker and order Office XP and
XP Pro. No, your point is moot.

You misunderstand, they ARE protecting it from thieves, you just don't
see the real world.

First you say they aren't protecting their investment from thieves and
then you say they are. Which is it or are you just making up as you go
along?

Fact: MS made billions on unprotected software.

Fact: WPA and WGA has caused a lot of problems for end users.

Fact: WPA and WGA only show the lack of respect that MS has for its
paying customers.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

LOL! You LIE.

I never lie, I have nothing to gain by telling lies.

Or if they change too much hardware or uninstall a program or ...

See here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate?lnk=srgg&hl=en

Windows Genuine Advantage is causing all kinds of problems for end
users. The fact that you fluff it off as "on usenet" writes volumes
about your supposed "integrity".

Yep, and that's a very small percentage of people when you count all the
numbers of systems that use it without any problem. No fluff on my part,
just a good understanding of the real issue.

I've seen end users call their favorite cracker and order Office XP and
XP Pro. No, your point is moot.

And I've seen many people try, and fail, so the method works for many
thieves.

First you say they aren't protecting their investment from thieves and
then you say they are. Which is it or are you just making up as you go
along?

I never said that - you said they are not protected their investment
from thieves - nice diversionary tactic, but it bit you in the butt, not
me.

Fact: MS made billions on unprotected software.

Yep, so, doesn't change anything if they want to protect it.

Fact: WPA and WGA has caused a lot of problems for end users.

Fact, they only cause problems for a very small percentage of users and
under certain circumstances, most users never experience any problems.

Fact: WPA and WGA only show the lack of respect that MS has for its
paying customers.

Fact: WPA does protect the product from various types of Piracy, and it
works well for many types of piracy.

Fact: As someone that works with more copies of XP than any home user,
and more than many self-employeed IT people, I don't feel any lack of
respect because MS implemented WPA or WGA, in fact, I'm not bothered by
their methods at all.

Fact: If you really cared about it you would not use the platform.

 

[Alias]

I never lie, I have nothing to gain by telling lies.


Yep, and that's a very small percentage of people when you count all the
numbers of systems that use it without any problem. No fluff on my part,
just a good understanding of the real issue.


And I've seen many people try, and fail, so the method works for many
thieves.


I never said that - you said they are not protected their investment
from thieves - nice diversionary tactic, but it bit you in the butt, not
me.


Yep, so, doesn't change anything if they want to protect it.

No need if they can make billions without it and show some respect for
their paying customers.

Fact, they only cause problems for a very small percentage of users and
under certain circumstances, most users never experience any problems.
Bullshit.


Fact: WPA does protect the product from various types of Piracy, and it
works well for many types of piracy.

Sure. Read the Spanish newsgroups for cracks that end users use. Lately,
the buzz has been about how to get around the latest WGA.

Fact: As someone that works with more copies of XP than any home user,
and more than many self-employeed IT people, I don't feel any lack of
respect because MS implemented WPA or WGA, in fact, I'm not bothered by
their methods at all.

Yeah, I know where your head is.

Fact: If you really cared about it you would not use the platform.

Don't think it's about time that we call Windows a "Mac"?

Alias

 

[Frank]

Microsoft might want to remember Lotus 123.....

I never lie, I have nothing to gain by telling lies.


Yep, and that's a very small percentage of people when you count
all the numbers of systems that use it without any problem. No
fluff on my part, just a good understanding of the real issue.


And I've seen many people try, and fail, so the method works for
many thieves.


I never said that - you said they are not protected their investment
from thieves - nice diversionary tactic, but it bit you in the
butt, not me.


Yep, so, doesn't change anything if they want to protect it.


Fact, they only cause problems for a very small percentage of users
and under certain circumstances, most users never experience any
problems.


Fact: WPA does protect the product from various types of Piracy,
and it works well for many types of piracy.

Fact: As someone that works with more copies of XP than any home
user, and more than many self-employeed IT people, I don't feel any
lack of respect because MS implemented WPA or WGA, in fact, I'm not
bothered by their methods at all.

Fact: If you really cared about it you would not use the platform.

 

[Kerry Brown]

I may have to change my mind about Kurt. I have never thought of him as
troll. Vocal about his opinions, some of which I don't agree with, but not a
troll. This thread has changed my mind. With three posts he has generated
significant traffic and then sat back and watched

Kurt

On topic about your original post. Microsoft is pushing this on system
builders. Irrespective of any published material they have been consistently
telling system builders this at every system builder and partner event for
almost a year now. Even at a SBS 2003 hands on event I attended the MVP
running the event who was not a Microsoft employee took some time to push
this off topic idea on us. I asked him what would happen to a customer who's
motherboard failed out of warranty. He said that the customer would have to
purchase a new license. At this point a Microsoft employee spoke up to
confirm this. Microsoft is pushing this. What will eventually become of it
is anyone's guess.

Kerry

 

[Leythos]

No need if they can make billions without it and show some respect for
their paying customers.

Fact, no person I know feels disrespected by activation.

So, since this is about how YOU feel, you can go right on feeling
disrespected. The entire group of people I know all over the USA and
several countries that talk about Microsoft products don't agree with
your position or feelings.

So, that makes it a personal issue to you.

You can't change the fact that MOST people don't feel abused, accused,
disrespected, etc... Most people don't have problems with Activation or
WGA.

Now, come back with some other rant, but you can't show me where the
Majority of purchasers feel abused.

 

[Bob I]

Why, it's part of SmartSuite now.

Microsoft might want to remember Lotus 123.....

 

[Alias]

Fact, no person I know feels disrespected by activation.

I can't help it if you don't have any friends, Leythos.

So, since this is about how YOU feel, you can go right on feeling
disrespected. The entire group of people I know all over the USA and
several countries that talk about Microsoft products don't agree with
your position or feelings.

That doesn't make what I think incorrect.

So, that makes it a personal issue to you.

And many others.

You can't change the fact that MOST people don't feel abused, accused,
disrespected, etc... Most people don't have problems with Activation or
WGA.

False. Most people don't even know about it but when they find out, they
are disgusted.

Now, come back with some other rant, but you can't show me where the
Majority of purchasers feel abused.

Why don't you call Windows a Mac and be done with it?

Alias

 

[RA]

I may have to change my mind about Kurt. I have never thought of him
as troll. Vocal about his opinions, some of which I don't agree with,
but not a troll. This thread has changed my mind. With three posts he
has generated significant traffic and then sat back and watched

It only looks like he is sitting back and watching because anything he
writes is deleted.

 

[Leythos]

It only looks like he is sitting back and watching because anything he
writes is deleted.

He could post if he really wanted too - new nickname, different posting
host, etc...

 

[Plato]

Fact, no person I know feels disrespected by activation.

I dont care who it is. MS or the 14 year old geek trying to "protect"
his work.

The 14 year old and the "multi-national" have the same rights to get
paid for their investments.

 

[Guest]

I may have to change my mind about Kurt. I have never thought of him as
troll. Vocal about his opinions, some of which I don't agree with, but not a
troll. This thread has changed my mind. With three posts he has generated
significant traffic and then sat back and watched

ROFL! One thread in thousands changes your mind. I must say I'm a
bit disappointed in you, that you can so blow with the MicroWind. What
RA told you is true.

Reset the group, or create a new instance of the group in your
newsreader, and see for yourself.

Kurt

On topic about your original post. Microsoft is pushing this on system
builders. Irrespective of any published material they have been consistently
telling system builders this at every system builder and partner event for
almost a year now. Even at a SBS 2003 hands on event I attended the MVP
running the event who was not a Microsoft employee took some time to push
this off topic idea on us. I asked him what would happen to a customer who's
motherboard failed out of warranty. He said that the customer would have to
purchase a new license. At this point a Microsoft employee spoke up to
confirm this. Microsoft is pushing this. What will eventually become of it
is anyone's guess.

Kerry

I gave a link to the SBL right from MS's site. It mentions nothing
about this changing the Mobo being a new computer requiring a new
license. MS cannot legally hold anyone to this Mobo nonsense since NO
ONE agreed to it. Not System Builders, not End Users, not ANYONE!

 

[nubian]

Alias wrote:

From thieves. Do you have a logic problem, Leythos?

Alias

You mean you actually need to ask?!? I thought it was obvious that
logic was one of Leythos' many problems!