This is an example of why Linux loses.

[Pickled pigs knuckles]

Around June this year.
Liar.


Not tried those Linux versions, but tried plenty of others.
Liar.


I have been told o numerous occasions, "Try this version of Linux -
you won't have any problems." And I always do.

Liar.

 

[John Anderton]

Around June this year.


Not tried those Linux versions, but tried plenty of others.

Did that include the "Big names" (Red Hat, Suse, etc.) ? I can believe
that some of the niche distrobutions would have limited support but
I've found the major players are pretty good.

I have been told o numerous occasions, "Try this version of Linux -
you won't have any problems." And I always do.

Well, I can only pass on my experience with Mandriva which has been
good. I would never go as far as to say you won't have *any* problems
but, given the list of cards you have had problems with, I can only
assume you either have fairly unusual hardware or have only tried
unusual linux versions,

Cheers,

John

 

[flatfish+++]

What? You can't install a driver using instructions? And that proves that
Linux is losing?

Well, how about leveling the playing field here a bit. How many Windows
users *EVER*

1) install Windows?

Probably few compared to the ones using preloads.

2) install drivers?

All the time. You know, that CD that comes with virtually any piece of
hardware.

3) do any kind of "fancy" system stuff, like, say, installing a new
piece of hardware?

All the time.

If you are capable of installing a driver or new hardware in Windows,
you are capable of doing it in Linux. If you are capable of using a
fully configured, preinstalled Windows PC, you are capable of using a
fully configured, preinstalled Linux PC.

Not true for your hardware/driver comparison.

Pretty much true for your preload comparison.

This whole line of logic is so much FUD it is ree-dick-u-luss.

later...

Then why is "how do I get my Nvidia or god help you ATI card working in
Linux one of the top questions asked?

With Windows XP it's easy.

With Linux?

Usually a mess and when you upgrade kernels you have to start all over
again.

 

[flatfish+++]

Stick to the truth if you want to successfully advocate.

Installing a linux driver is a LOT harder than doing one for windows.

It often involves, lspci'ing, modprob'ing, restricted modules modifying,
configuring, compiling, installing.

It is lunacy to suggest it is "as easy". It *can* be but rarely is.

That is correct.

 

[flatfish+++]

The responses will be as deafening as my onboard sound card generally
is, or your Creative one for that matter.... e.g silent.

It is worthy of note that someone got a creative soundblaster card
working with Linux recently and it was considered breaking news. I had
always though they, of all cards, would be supported out of the box.

It took Linux YEARS to get the original Soundblaster Live! working with
Linux and that was even after Creative did most of the work for them by
providing a semi-working driver before they, Creative abandoned the
project due to lack of interest.

Oh yea, by the time Linux was working with the ORIGINAL SBLive! there were
two revisions, neither of which worked with the Linux driver so they had
to start all over again.

 

[Cynic]

...that would be rather odd considering the fact that
Linux is "primarily" a SERVER platform. There have been vendor
supported professional grade RAID cards for years, possibly
decades at this point. That you would have an unsupported RAID
card is an odd idea.

OTOH, there are plenty of cards that are listed in the
RAID Howto as not really RAID cards.

Sure - "If Linux don't support it, it can't be a real RAID card".
Doesn't help me I'm afraid. All I know is that it runs a striped two
disk array perfectly OK under Windoze, with the driver install being
a 5 minute job. There may be a Linux driver for it - I probably only
spent 15 minutes searching because I'd already taken hours to get that
far. I didn't have to do any searching for the Windoze driver - it
came on the CD with the card.

I find that rather hard to believe considering that Hauppauge
cards have been supported in Linux for a LONG time. I added 878 support
to the bttv driver MYSELF. The current PVR cards are supported and are
actually the PREFERED SD capture cards for MythTV.

Yes - I get that all the time when I mention Linux driver problems. I
either get told that it is easy to get XYZ working (but not how to do
so), or that I am a fool to be using something as lame as XYZ and
should buy something decent instead.

[deletia]

...couldn't say about the firewire card.

Although I've not had any problems with various cards and
embedded chipsets including several laptops and highly integrated
mATX motherboards. I've been using Linux firewire for at least
3 years.

As far as the video editor goes: you could certainly
criticize what Linux has but you can't reasonably say that
Linux doesn't have anything. Some editors even provide an
interface for doing the dvgrab.

I've never got that far so couldn't say. I haven't even managed to
get my graphics card working in anything except VGA mode under Linux,
and I am well aware that it is possible (it's a very common G-force
card). Lots of people telling me that it is easy, nobody who gives
more than enigmatic clues or abuse about how to do so.

 

[JDS]

I don't believe that you've ever tried to install Linux
on ANY system. Given that you've installed those 5 drivers then
you should also have been able to tell us exactly what hardware
was a problem.

Not to mention that one of the more mainstream Linux distros -- say,
Ubuntu or SuSE or MEPIS -- doesn't need any additional driver installation
for any of those mentioned items.

 

[Cynic]

I don't believe that you've ever tried to install Linux
on ANY system.

That's another big thing about Linux. If you can't get something
working, you'll get abuse instead of advice. It is probable that I
was running a Unix system before you'd heard of it.

Given that you've installed those 5 drivers then
you should also have been able to tell us exactly what hardware
was a problem.

Huh? I've *told* you what hardware were problems. Would giving you
the make & model of the cards be likely to help, or would that lead to
more abuse?

 

[Cynic]

Load of shite.

More abuse from the Linux brigade.

 

[JDS]

More abuse from the Linux brigade.

Not abuse, if it is true

 

[JDS]

Huh? I've *told* you what hardware were problems. Would giving you
the make & model of the cards be likely to help, or would that lead to
more abuse?

Of course he meant the make and model numbers, dumb ass. There, more
abuse. But tahts what COLA is for. Now stop crossposting, troll.

 

[Cynic]

Well, I know of several sexagenarians who would never be able to install
Windows, install drivers, or install hardware. Not even a USB thumb drive.

You reckon they could install Linux plus drivers any better?

The average Windoze user can buy a £10 webcam from the local
supermarket and have it running within 15 minutes. The average
Windoze user can buy a VOIP telephone handset, install Skype or
similar and be making VOIP calls in less than half an hour. Could the
average Linux user do the same?

 

[Martin]

Don't you just love it when you make a point about a Linux weakness and
some geeky yahoo, unwittingly, adds his support!

I'm not sure what you mean. Lots of servers and networks are designed
such that each client connection gets only a couple of k of bandwidth.

If I'm in London and my server is in America how do you suggest I use my
2k to open a full graphical screen, bring up control panel, open up the
applet and start clicking on tabs and buttons?

Again, I know what I'd prefer to use, and it's a telnet session. How
long would it take you waiting for images to transfer over the 2k
connection? And yes, in the real world bandwidths are limited like this.
You'd know this if you'd ever worked in a large commercial environment

 

[Ram]

Sure - "If Linux don't support it, it can't be a real RAID card".
Doesn't help me I'm afraid. All I know is that it runs a striped two
disk array perfectly OK under Windoze, with the driver install being
a 5 minute job. There may be a Linux driver for it - I probably only
spent 15 minutes searching because I'd already taken hours to get that
far. I didn't have to do any searching for the Windoze driver - it
came on the CD with the card.

My raid card does not work under 64bit XP and dout it will with Vista
but it does under 64bit SUSE 10.1 and Ubuntu...

I find that rather hard to believe considering that Hauppauge
cards have been supported in Linux for a LONG time. I added 878 support
to the bttv driver MYSELF. The current PVR cards are supported and are
actually the PREFERED SD capture cards for MythTV.

Yes - I get that all the time when I mention Linux driver problems. I
either get told that it is easy to get XYZ working (but not how to do
so), or that I am a fool to be using something as lame as XYZ and
should buy something decent instead.

[deletia]

...couldn't say about the firewire card.

Although I've not had any problems with various cards and
embedded chipsets including several laptops and highly integrated
mATX motherboards. I've been using Linux firewire for at least
3 years.

As far as the video editor goes: you could certainly
criticize what Linux has but you can't reasonably say that
Linux doesn't have anything. Some editors even provide an
interface for doing the dvgrab.

I've never got that far so couldn't say. I haven't even managed to
get my graphics card working in anything except VGA mode under Linux,
and I am well aware that it is possible (it's a very common G-force
card). Lots of people telling me that it is easy, nobody who gives
more than enigmatic clues or abuse about how to do so.

Just follow the instructions at NVidia if your using SUSE.


Ram

 

[JEDIDIAH]

Feel free to explain how to get a WinTV card or a Creative SB X-Fi

WinTV: Install the driver.
X-Fi: Tough luck.
Not a great choice under Windows either apparently.

 

[Ram]

You reckon they could install Linux plus drivers any better?

The average Windoze user can buy a £10 webcam from the local
supermarket and have it running within 15 minutes. The average
Windoze user can buy a VOIP telephone handset, install Skype or
similar and be making VOIP calls in less than half an hour. Could the
average Linux user do the same?

Don't have a webcam so can't say.....

Skype up and running in 10 minutes.

Ram

 

[JEDIDIAH]

[deletia]

webcam or most other USB devices there would be little point in taking
the trouble.

I'm cynical about your post.

Feel free to explain how to get a WinTV card or a Creative SB X-Fi
sound card running on a Linux system. Also maybe recommend a
reasonable video editing application that runs under Linux. I don't
need anything too fancy, though the ability to author DVDs with Dolby
5.1 surround sound would be good.

The responses will be as deafening as my onboard sound card generally
is, or your Creative one for that matter.... e.g silent.

My integrated audio chipsets all work fine.

Linux is usually pretty good about the cheap embedded audio
chipsets. It's the ones that show up in the $350 sound cards (like
the x-fi) that tend to be problematic.

It is worthy of note that someone got a creative soundblaster card
working with Linux recently and it was considered breaking news. I had
always though they, of all cards, would be supported out of the box.

I was running Sound blaster cards in Linux in 1994.

 

[JEDIDIAH]

After takin' a swig o' grog, Cynic belched out this bit o' wisdom:


The Win TV card is easy. When I popped one into my Debian desktop,

Actually... this isn't as straightforward as it looks.

Basically, a "WinTV" card could be one of just about any
of Hauppauge's products made for the American market. This includes
USB devices and multiple generations of PCI cards with multiple
families of chipsets.

"discover" picked up on it and loaded the bt878 driver, and now I see it
as another audio/video device in my volume control applications and
media players. I didn't have to do a damn thing.

[deletia]

 

[JEDIDIAH]

Typical ad-hominem response to anyone who has genuinely tried to get a
Linux system to suit their needs but failed. My last attempt was
around 4 months ago.


I have no love for Windoze, and would really prefer to use Linux *if*
I could get it to do all the tasks I commonly perform on this Windoze
system. I know that Linux is faster and leaner than Windoze by an
order of magnitude. I used to have Linux servers running on 286
machines and 640KB of RAM that outperformed Pentiums with 128MB.

Linux servers on 286's eh?

[deletia]

 

[Larry Qualig]

[deletia]
webcam or most other USB devices there would be little point in taking
the trouble.

I'm cynical about your post.

Feel free to explain how to get a WinTV card or a Creative SB X-Fi
sound card running on a Linux system. Also maybe recommend a
reasonable video editing application that runs under Linux. I don't
need anything too fancy, though the ability to author DVDs with Dolby
5.1 surround sound would be good.

The responses will be as deafening as my onboard sound card generally
is, or your Creative one for that matter.... e.g silent.

My integrated audio chipsets all work fine.

Linux is usually pretty good about the cheap embedded audio
chipsets. It's the ones that show up in the $350 sound cards (like
the x-fi) that tend to be problematic.

My primary desktop is an HP x4000 dual Xeon workstation. The on-board
(integraded) AC97 sound "works" - depending on how you want to define
the term.

With SuSE 10.0 the hardware detection would repeatedly choke trying to
detect the sound card. Choke to the point where mouse, keyboard,
everything would lock-up forcing me to do a hard shutdown of the
machine. Eventually it was able to find the AC97 sound and install the
drivers for it.

The sound usually works... but sometimes it just stops and refuses to
play anymore. (In all fairness it has been good the past month or two
(works 100% of the time) so I suspect that one of the YaST online
updates fixed something.) But before this it was certainly a
hit-or-miss proposition as whether or not the sound would work.

The only problem now is the "mixing" - or lack thereof. If I'm playing
some music and something happens that would normally alert me with
sound... the alert sound never gets played. Seems that when one
application has the sound device open then nothing else can access it.
This isn't a big deal but it would be nice for multiple apps to "share"
the sound.