Themaltake Big Water Cooling kit opinions.

[Bob]

It's a problem because it's dry air. It causes static charges
to build up on places that are well insulated. I'll grant that
the danger is relatively small, but it's high enough that I
personally won't use the stuff.

You don't live in Houston where the dew point is in the 70s most of
the time.

It's fairly common knowledge.

Of course, if you spend a some bucks and get a device to add
ionizers to the air flow, it ain't bad.

We call that "humidity". We have more than enough to go around.

You were even confused about Texans and pig farmers, and got it
all confused about where the shit is Bob! Tsck tsck. Not good.

<yawn>


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

You don't live in Houston where the dew point is in the 70s most of
the time.

Good point. But you should make that clear when talking about
it, because few people live where that is true.

We call that "humidity". We have more than enough to go around.


<yawn>

I'm not forgetting that you are a Texan, even if I do forget that
you live in Houston.

 

[Bob]

I'm not forgetting that you are a Texan, even if I do forget that
you live in Houston.

<YAWN>


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Clyde]

Somehow I didn't catch that the first time around, and you've
got a *really smart* idea there!

Fabric softener sheets are impregnated with what can best be
described as "anti static" coating. Hence you are not just
filtering, but treating all air going into the system.
Eventually that is going to impart a very very thin film of anti
static coating to everything inside the case. That will most
likely have two beneficial effects. One is the obvious
prevention of damage from discharge of static build up on at any
single location. While the machine is turned on that is of
little to no value, and perhaps isn't worth much any other time
either, if you are half way careful about handling components
any time you do something like hardware upgrade.

But the other effect might be useful. You'll notice that dust
clings to certain places more than to others on the inside of
equipment boxes. One reason is just because "it's there",
meaning if you blow dirty air on something, the dirt sticks to
that particular something. But the other reason for dirt to
stick in any given place is attraction to electrical charges
that have built up and are not discharged. You'll see that on
some wires, around high voltage areas, etc. etc. But by coating
everything with antistatic you get exactly the opposite effect!
Rather than dust being most likely to stick to any given
surface, it is just as likely to remain airborn, and perhaps
even exit the case without ever settling!

That's the best idea I've ever heard of for filter material!

Please read it a little closer. I use a USED fabric softener sheet. I
think your theory has some merit, but I'm very nervous about coating the
inside of my computer with anything. I certainly couldn't find anyone
else who had done this with a unUSED sheet. If you get long term
experience with this, let us know.

One thing that worries me is that this stuff may be sticky. The problem
with that is that any dust that does get in the computer would stick
much tighter. You may not be able to just blow it off with canned air.
You may have to do some scrubbing. I don't even want to think about it.

An USED sheet is still a pretty fine mesh. It is certainly much finer
than cheese cloth. It's also much lighter than a house filter or K&N
filter, or just about any other kind of filter that you can find. The
light weight means that I don't have to build a holder for it. I just
slap it on the fan and the moving air holds it in place.

Try it. You might like it.

Clyde

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

[ large snip ]

Please read it a little closer. I use a USED fabric softener

That makes very little difference, unless you wash it in
water or whatever. Certainly a few turns in the dryer isn't
going to change the long term effect of using it.

However...

sheet. I think your theory has some merit, but I'm very nervous
about coating the inside of my computer with anything. I

Don't be. It came coated. And it is continuously being
coated with whatever is in the air it breaths. That might
be relatively benign, or not (cigarette smoke, for example,
is if anything worse for computers than it is for humans).

certainly couldn't find anyone else who had done this with a
unUSED sheet. If you get long term experience with this, let us
know.

I've got some long term experience with air filters, including
some that were washed in anti static solutions and others that
had stuff meant to cause particles to stick to the filter.

The amount of "film" that you'll put into the computer is
probably not enough that you'd ever be able to notice it
in any way, other than perhaps as a reduced amount of dust
accumulation.

One thing that worries me is that this stuff may be sticky. The

Not on any of them I've handled.

problem with that is that any dust that does get in the computer
would stick much tighter.

Nope. The other way around. If it gets through it is less likely
to stick, simply because the biggest attraction is not sticky goo,
but an electric field. By preventing static build up, it prevents
large electric fields from developing, which in turn prevents the
dust particles from being attracted and sticking to surfaces.

The dust is much more likely to be blown out of the case than it
would be otherwise.

You may not be able to just blow it
off with canned air. You may have to do some scrubbing. I don't
even want to think about it.

Canned air is not a particularly good idea. It's dry, and causes
static. If you live in a *very* damp climate that may not be
risky. Anywhere else, it is risky.

An USED sheet is still a pretty fine mesh. It is certainly much
finer than cheese cloth. It's also much lighter than a house
filter or K&N filter, or just about any other kind of filter
that you can find. The light weight means that I don't have to
build a holder for it. I just slap it on the fan and the moving
air holds it in place.

I've used 1/4" thick sheets of scrub pad. It's green stuff,
and not brillo, but I can't think of the name. A lot of commercial
filters are made of 1/8" foam. Both of those are finer mesh.

But fine mesh is not always the best method. Others have
mentioned metal filters that work very well. The reason they
work well is they are thick, not because of any thin mesh. The
outer surface, through which air enters, is designed with a
wide mesh screen that causes air turbulence. Because of that
the speed and direction of the air when it hits the filter
element is lower and at an angle, and it can be much more
effective with a much wider mesh than would otherwise be
required. (Maybe you have to live in Barrow and watch how a
snow fence works to really appreciate that technology!)

Try it. You might like it.

Oh, I think an *unused* sheet is definitely a good idea.

 

[Bob]

An USED sheet is still a pretty fine mesh. It is certainly much finer
than cheese cloth.

How about multiple layers of cheese cloth.

It's also much lighter than a house filter or K&N
filter, or just about any other kind of filter that you can find. The
light weight means that I don't have to build a holder for it.

You can use a glue stick to apply just enough adhesive to get cloth to
stick to the case. Then when you want to remove the cloth, the glue
comes with it.

I just slap it on the fan and the moving air holds it in place.

What happens when you remove the power to the computer and the fan(s)
stop?

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Bob]

Canned air is not a particularly good idea. It's dry, and causes
static.

Ground the can to the computer case.

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Clyde]

[ large snip ]

Please read it a little closer. I use a USED fabric softener

That makes very little difference, unless you wash it in
water or whatever. Certainly a few turns in the dryer isn't
going to change the long term effect of using it.

However...

sheet. I think your theory has some merit, but I'm very nervous
about coating the inside of my computer with anything. I

Don't be. It came coated. And it is continuously being
coated with whatever is in the air it breaths. That might
be relatively benign, or not (cigarette smoke, for example,
is if anything worse for computers than it is for humans).

certainly couldn't find anyone else who had done this with a
unUSED sheet. If you get long term experience with this, let us
know.

I've got some long term experience with air filters, including
some that were washed in anti static solutions and others that
had stuff meant to cause particles to stick to the filter.

The amount of "film" that you'll put into the computer is
probably not enough that you'd ever be able to notice it
in any way, other than perhaps as a reduced amount of dust
accumulation.

One thing that worries me is that this stuff may be sticky. The

Not on any of them I've handled.

problem with that is that any dust that does get in the computer
would stick much tighter.

Nope. The other way around. If it gets through it is less likely
to stick, simply because the biggest attraction is not sticky goo,
but an electric field. By preventing static build up, it prevents
large electric fields from developing, which in turn prevents the
dust particles from being attracted and sticking to surfaces.

The dust is much more likely to be blown out of the case than it
would be otherwise.

You may not be able to just blow it
off with canned air. You may have to do some scrubbing. I don't
even want to think about it.

Canned air is not a particularly good idea. It's dry, and causes
static. If you live in a *very* damp climate that may not be
risky. Anywhere else, it is risky.

An USED sheet is still a pretty fine mesh. It is certainly much
finer than cheese cloth. It's also much lighter than a house
filter or K&N filter, or just about any other kind of filter
that you can find. The light weight means that I don't have to
build a holder for it. I just slap it on the fan and the moving
air holds it in place.

I've used 1/4" thick sheets of scrub pad. It's green stuff,
and not brillo, but I can't think of the name. A lot of commercial
filters are made of 1/8" foam. Both of those are finer mesh.

But fine mesh is not always the best method. Others have
mentioned metal filters that work very well. The reason they
work well is they are thick, not because of any thin mesh. The
outer surface, through which air enters, is designed with a
wide mesh screen that causes air turbulence. Because of that
the speed and direction of the air when it hits the filter
element is lower and at an angle, and it can be much more
effective with a much wider mesh than would otherwise be
required. (Maybe you have to live in Barrow and watch how a
snow fence works to really appreciate that technology!)

Try it. You might like it.

Oh, I think an *unused* sheet is definitely a good idea.

Good points and some experience to back it up. You use UNUSED sheets and
I'll keep using USED sheets. Let's check back in a year and compare the
results. It may not make enough of a difference to matter, but we won't
know until we actually test it.

BTW, the sheets I use certainly feel different after the dryer vs.
before the dryer. It really isn't sticky before, but I can certainly
feel the gunk on it. This may help pick up dust during the filtering. It
may act like the oil I put on my K&N filter in my car.

If you don't like canned air, what do you do? I've never had a problem
with it - that I can tell. I've been zapping computers with it for a
couple of decades with no noticeable affects. I've never seen a spark
either. In IL it is certainly very humid now. In February it certainly
wasn't though.

I grew up in Northern Minnesota and have seen a lot of snow fences. Yes,
they get a lot of snow piled up in front of them. However, if you
actually walk behind one when the snow is blowing, a heck of a lot of
snow is going through them. They don't block much snow until you get a
huge pile there. Even then, the snow still goes through (or over) in
great amounts. I always thought that snow fences were more for directing
a lot of spring melt where you wanted it.

Clyde

 

[Clyde]

How about multiple layers of cheese cloth.




You can use a glue stick to apply just enough adhesive to get cloth to
stick to the case. Then when you want to remove the cloth, the glue
comes with it.




What happens when you remove the power to the computer and the fan(s)
stop?

Please do try cheese cloth. Test it in multiple layers and single layer.
Let us know.

To me it looks like the holes in cheese cloth are way too big to stop
dust or much of it anyway. I know that when I use it in the kitchen to
strain stuff it will stop seeds and pulp. The juice that gets through is
usually cloudy from the small particals that do get through. I always
use, at least, 4 layers.

I very rarely turn off my computer. For one thing I'm using it most of
the time. It's also a server to my daughter's computer. (Behind multiple
firewalls.) My 20+ years of experience with computers seems to tell me
that computer left on do better than those turned on and off all the
time. The difference has dwindled in recent years, but it is a habit now.

Therefore, the fabric softener sheet stays there. However, I do like
your idea of stick glue for someone who does turn the computer off
regularly.

Clyde

 

[Clyde]

Ground the can to the computer case.

I think the theory is that moving air in a plastic tube will create
static electricity. The theory is sound, but I haven't seen the
practical results of that in this case.

Clyde

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Ground the can to the computer case.

Not effect. That takes any charge off the can. But that wasn't
the problem to begin with.

The only way to use compressed air safely is add ions to the air
as it is sprayed. That prevents any significant static build
up, because it is ever so slightly conductive.

Devices to do that are available for $70-80.

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Good points and some experience to back it up. You use UNUSED
sheets and I'll keep using USED sheets. Let's check back in a
year and compare the results. It may not make enough of a
difference to matter, but we won't know until we actually test
it.

BTW, the sheets I use certainly feel different after the dryer
vs. before the dryer. It really isn't sticky before, but I can
certainly feel the gunk on it. This may help pick up dust during
the filtering. It may act like the oil I put on my K&N filter in
my car.

I doubt that it would attract or catch any dust. Oil certainly
does though!

If you don't like canned air, what do you do? I've never had a
problem with it - that I can tell. I've been zapping computers
with it for a couple of decades with no noticeable affects. I've
never seen a spark either. In IL it is certainly very humid
now. In February it certainly wasn't though.

I've always been partial to two techniques. One is spray cans
of "contact cleaner" or "tuner cleaner". The other is leave the
dust where it's at or pull the whole thing out and put it in a
bath of soapy water.

I grew up in Northern Minnesota and have seen a lot of snow
fences. Yes, they get a lot of snow piled up in front of
them.

Minnesotans think they know what winter is, sigh. The snow
is pile in *back* of the snow fence!

The turbulance downwind causes the snow to fall out of the air.

I used to live near the end of what I've heard referred to as
the longest snow fence in the world. It's something like 4
miles long, on the east side of Barrow. I doubt that it really
is the longest snow fence, or probably even close. But the
first year they extended this thing to behind the house I was
living in, it definitely had a huge effect on how much snow we
had to plow. But... it's located about 3/8 of a mile from the
house, and along about February I was beginning to wonder if the
snow berm behind it was possibly going to reach, by the end of
April, all the way past the house! This 15 foot deep monster
drift just kept getting closer and closer and closer! But, it
stopped, well over half way. (And doesn't totally melt until
well into July.)

However, if you actually walk behind one when the snow is
blowing, a heck of a lot of snow is going through them. They
don't block much snow until you get a huge pile there. Even
then, the snow still goes through (or over) in great amounts. I
always thought that snow fences were more for directing a lot of
spring melt where you wanted it.

They are extremely effective in places like here. We only get
about 24 inches of very dry snow each winter. But our average
wind is 12 mph. The snow starts drifting seriously at about 20
mph, and above about 30 mph visibility on the ground will be
extremely limited. Hence most of the snow accumulation ever
seen here is due to wind blow snow, and a snow fence has a great
effect on that.

The North Slope Borough has built snow fences on the east side
of all of the tundra villages here because it reduces the
maintenance expense for clearing the roads all winter long.

 

[Floyd L. Davidson]

I think the theory is that moving air in a plastic tube will
create static electricity. The theory is sound, but I haven't
seen the practical results of that in this case.

It probably isn't really bad, and certainly a lot of people
recommend the use of compressed air to clean computers. I
personally won't use it though. But I lived near Fairbanks in
the interior or Alaska for decades, and that is an *extremely*
dry and hostile environment for static. Hence I'm a bit more
sensitive than perhaps the average person.

For example, I argued (unsuccessfully) for years that at my
place of employment in Fairbanks that we should have put
anti-static mats in certain aisles between equipment bays and
disallowed anyone from so much as walking down those particular
aisles without wearing ankle bracelets for static discharge.

These particular aisles were where a Northern Telecom DMS-200
toll switch was located, and the manufacturer recommended floor
mats. I think it would have cut the cost of maintenance
significantly, because the failure rate for cards seemed far
higher than necessary. Since the repair cost for just a couple
of cards would pay for the entire installation, it seemed
reasonable to me.

It was never to be. But telephone companies are a Dilbert
Cartoon, and you won't believe the reason for not using a proper
anti-static environment! Nobody denied the specifics listed
above. The problem, according to a Pointy-Haired-Boss or two,
was that if we put down anti-static mats, people would get a
false sense of security and not wear wrist straps when actually
touching the equipment, thus causing an even higher damage rate.

Thus, compressed air may generate static, but not nearly as much
as hot air from PHB's.

 

[Bob]

To me it looks like the holes in cheese cloth are way too big to stop
dust or much of it anyway.

If you saw the holes between atoms in a typical solid you would say
the same thing. In fact, in substances like glass the holes are big
enough to let light thru. But when it comes to most foreign material a
simple piece of aluminum foil will stop it.

The idea is to put enough layers so that there are no straight-thru
holes. Under the very slow flow of air, the dust gets caught before it
can work its way thru.

I know that when I use it in the kitchen to
strain stuff it will stop seeds and pulp. The juice that gets through is
usually cloudy from the small particals that do get through. I always
use, at least, 4 layers.

That's liquid filtration which is much different than air filtration.
The same can be said of the standard air filters on your furnace. You
would not expect a furnace air filter to do a good job on orange juice
either. But it does a good job on dust in air.

I very rarely turn off my computer. For one thing I'm using it most of
the time.

Then you have a hefty UPS. (I have a 750 VA Tripp-Lite which is good
for at least 15 minutes. I know because I tested it.)

It's also a server to my daughter's computer. (Behind multiple
firewalls.) My 20+ years of experience with computers seems to tell me
that computer left on do better than those turned on and off all the
time. The difference has dwindled in recent years, but it is a habit now.

I agree. But I still turn mine off to do internal maintenance.

Therefore, the fabric softener sheet stays there. However, I do like
your idea of stick glue for someone who does turn the computer off
regularly.

For anyone who turns their computer off anytime. It only takes once.

If you can't get the glue stick to work, try a little dab of superglue
on a few spots. Just make sure it doesn't seep thru or you will become
a permanent part of your computer. That kind of intimacy I can do
without.

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Bob]

I think the theory is that moving air in a plastic tube will create
static electricity. The theory is sound, but I haven't seen the
practical results of that in this case.

On the one occasion that the dew point gets down into the 20s in
Houston, you can build a static charge getting out of a car. But 99
44/100% of the time there is no static electricity in this swamp.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Bob]

you won't believe the reason for not using a proper
anti-static environment!

Let me guess - the vendor did not offer a large enough kick back.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

 

[Bob]

Devices to do that are available for $70-80.

Turn on a hot shower and humidify the livin' crap out of the air.

--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge