T5700 image and sdi2hd ... how?

B

Brian Schau

Hello,

I am in the process of creating a Kiosk version of Windows XP Embedded for
a HP T5700 Thin Client.
As this is my first time working with thin client I thought the best strategy
would be to start the whole process by creating a default image which could
boot the T5700 with support for whatever hardware needs to be supported.
This, I felt, would give me an idea of how to use the various tools. Then,
when I felt more comfortabel with the tools, I could go ahead and concentrate
on creating a Kiosk version.
But alas, somewhere along the process I have failed :-( When booting my
T5700 I get a "disk read error".

This is my 13 steps to disaster:

1) On the original installation I ran tap.exe to get a devices.pmq file.
2) This I imported to the Target Designer (TD).
3) Resolved dependencies.
4) Build image to a separate partition.
5) Create a sdi image of 90MB, around 13 MB more than needed - but less than
the total of 256MB available on the T5700. I used the SDI Loader to create
the file.
6) In DiskManager I set the disk file "online". I created a partition,
formatted it as NTFS and set the partition Active.
7) Then I used explorer to copy all files from my image-partition to the
sdi-file.
8) In the SDI Loader I removed the disk.
9) I then booted the T5700 using a standard windows 98 boot disk.
10) I created a partition using fdisk which spawns the entire disk. I set this
partition active. Rebooted the T5700 and formatted the newly created C:
disk.
11) Then I ran bootprep /dC to enable to boot of windows XP from NTFS
partitions.
12) I used sdi2hd d:\t5700img.sdi to transfer the sdi image - it completes
without errors.
13) A reboot gives: "A disk read error occurred".


So - 13 steps ... that ofcourse, will make things go wrong ;-) What am I
doing wrong?

From the docs I get that step 10+11 is not necessary - the sdi image contains
whatever is needed to load the operating system ... So I've tried to omit
step 10+11 - but that still doesn't work.

Any help is welcome!


Kind regards,
Brian
 
K

KM

Brian,

I think steps 5-8 are not enough to get a working sdi file. Before detach
the SDI Loader from your virtual drive (or your don't need to detach it at
all) you will need to create a separate sdi file with SDI Manager
(sdimgr.wsf) and import the entire SDI Loader's virtual drive partition into
your new sdi file (/readpart). Then you may use the sdi image to download on
target device.

Here you'll find the instruction how to make an sdi file:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/remboot/htm
l/xpconpreparingremotebootimagefordeployment.asp

KM,
BSquare Corp.

BS> Hello,

BS> I am in the process of creating a Kiosk version of Windows XP
BS> Embedded for a HP T5700 Thin Client.
BS> As this is my first time working with thin client I thought the best
BS> strategy would be to start the whole process by creating a default
BS> image which could boot the T5700 with support for whatever hardware
BS> needs to be supported.
BS> This, I felt, would give me an idea of how to use the various tools.
BS> Then, when I felt more comfortabel with the tools, I could go ahead
BS> and concentrate on creating a Kiosk version.
BS> But alas, somewhere along the process I have failed :-( When
BS> booting my
BS> T5700 I get a "disk read error".

BS> This is my 13 steps to disaster:

BS> 1) On the original installation I ran tap.exe to get a devices.pmq
BS> file.
BS> 2) This I imported to the Target Designer (TD).
BS> 3) Resolved dependencies.
BS> 4) Build image to a separate partition.
BS> 5) Create a sdi image of 90MB, around 13 MB more than needed - but
BS> less than the total of 256MB available on the T5700. I used the
BS> SDI Loader to create the file.
BS> 6) In DiskManager I set the disk file "online". I created a
BS> partition, formatted it as NTFS and set the partition Active.
BS> 7) Then I used explorer to copy all files from my image-partition to
BS> the sdi-file.
BS> 8) In the SDI Loader I removed the disk.
BS> 9) I then booted the T5700 using a standard windows 98 boot disk.
BS> 10) I created a partition using fdisk which spawns the entire disk.
BS> I set this partition active. Rebooted the T5700 and formatted
BS> the newly created C:
BS> disk.
BS> 11) Then I ran bootprep /dC to enable to boot of windows XP
BS> from NTFS partitions.
BS> 12) I used sdi2hd d:\t5700img.sdi to transfer the sdi image - it
BS> completes without errors.
BS> 13) A reboot gives: "A disk read error occurred".


BS> So - 13 steps ... that ofcourse, will make things go wrong ;-)
BS> What am I doing wrong?

BS> From the docs I get that step 10+11 is not necessary - the sdi image
BS> contains whatever is needed to load the operating system ... So
BS> I've tried to omit step 10+11 - but that still doesn't work.

BS> Any help is welcome!


BS> Kind regards,
BS> Brian
 
B

Brian Schau

Hi,

I tried that - it didn't help. It gave me an unrecognizeable image.
sdi2hd didn't dig it.

I also tried to set the various parameters from the WERuntime.ini file
in the image.

No luck ... :-(


Kind regards,
Brian
 
K

KM

Brian,

Sorry, I missed that you're trying to use your sdi file with sdi2hd tool. I
thought you were remote booting the sdi image.

I think sdi2hd requires disk blob in the sdi file and you won't need to do
the steps to create a new sdi file with only partition blob in it.
So, basically you original steps were right. You may want to just double
check them with the steps from here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/xpehelp/html/xetskDeployingRun-TimeI
mageUsingSDIDataExtractionTool.asp.

Does you image (check the SDI Loader virtual drive) include ntldr, boot.ini
and ntdetect.com?
Also, make sure you target hard drive does not have bad blocks (just run
checking utility on it from XP).

I didn't really work with HP T5700 Thin Client but as many other retail thin
clients it might have a complicated disk structure (btw, is it CF or HD?).
I'd run a good disk tool (Partition Magic, Paragon Partition Manager,
diskpart, etc.) to see if there is only one partition on the target storage
device. Often, thin clients have a hidden (custom) small first partition to
extend BIOS and add specific functionality to device, e.g. network update
client code, CF verification tool, etc.

Sorry, couldn't be of any help. Maybe someone else who worked much with
sdi2hd tool may put his word here to help fixing your issue.

KM

BS> Hi,

BS> I tried that - it didn't help. It gave me an unrecognizeable image.
BS> sdi2hd didn't dig it.

BS> I also tried to set the various parameters from the WERuntime.ini
BS> file in the image.

BS> No luck ... :-(


BS> Kind regards,
BS> Brian



BS>>> Hello,

BS>>> I am in the process of creating a Kiosk version of Windows XP
BS>>> Embedded for a HP T5700 Thin Client.
BS>>> As this is my first time working with thin client I thought the
BS>>> best strategy would be to start the whole process by creating a
BS>>> default image which could boot the T5700 with support for whatever
BS>>> hardware needs to be supported.
BS>>> This, I felt, would give me an idea of how to use the various
BS>>> tools.
BS>>> Then, when I felt more comfortabel with the tools, I could go
BS>>> ahead and concentrate on creating a Kiosk version.
BS>>> But alas, somewhere along the process I have failed :-( When
BS>>> booting my
BS>>> T5700 I get a "disk read error".

BS>>> This is my 13 steps to disaster:

BS>>> 1) On the original installation I ran tap.exe to get a devices.pmq
BS>>> file.
BS>>> 2) This I imported to the Target Designer (TD).
BS>>> 3) Resolved dependencies.
BS>>> 4) Build image to a separate partition.
BS>>> 5) Create a sdi image of 90MB, around 13 MB more than needed - but
BS>>> less than the total of 256MB available on the T5700. I used
BS>>> the
BS>>> SDI Loader to create the file.
BS>>> 6) In DiskManager I set the disk file "online". I created a
BS>>> partition, formatted it as NTFS and set the partition Active.
BS>>> 7) Then I used explorer to copy all files from my image-partition
BS>>> to the sdi-file.
BS>>> 8) In the SDI Loader I removed the disk.
BS>>> 9) I then booted the T5700 using a standard windows 98 boot disk.
BS>>> 10) I created a partition using fdisk which spawns the entire
BS>>> disk.
BS>>> I set this partition active. Rebooted the T5700 and formatted
BS>>> the newly created C:
BS>>> disk.
BS>>> 11) Then I ran bootprep /dC to enable to boot of windows XP
BS>>> from NTFS partitions.
BS>>> 12) I used sdi2hd d:\t5700img.sdi to transfer the sdi image -
BS>>> it completes without errors.
BS>>> 13) A reboot gives: "A disk read error occurred".


BS>>> So - 13 steps ... that ofcourse, will make things go wrong ;-)
BS>>> What am I doing wrong?

BS>>> From the docs I get that step 10+11 is not necessary - the sdi
BS>>> image contains whatever is needed to load the operating system ...
BS>>> So
BS>>> I've tried to omit step 10+11 - but that still doesn't work.

BS>>> Any help is welcome!


BS>>> Kind regards,
BS>>> Brian
 
B

Brian Schau

Hey - that is ok! At least you verified my sanity!

I checked the link - it is exactly what I am doing. And yes, the image
contains ntldr, boot.ini and ntdetect.

The T5700 is equipped with a compact flash card. I feel that there is some
sort of protection built into this device.

I tried to create a simple dos boot disk on the drive - the boot disk doesn't
boot.
It is like the boot-sector isn't written.
I did turn off the boot-block virus detection option in BIOS.


Kind regards,
Brian "frustrated, but too stupid to give up!"
 
S

Slobodan Brcin

Hi, if you have not already done FBA on similar device then forget using
sdi2hd and other iamge copy utilities.

Do simple diskpart and format from WindowsXP or WinPE (First XPe CD). I have
described exact procedure only few days ago.

Just copy files with explorer or xcopy.

It should work.


Regards,
Slobodan
 
K

KM

Brian,

What you really need is to hack the device and see how many partitions you
got there, how they are structured, what's the boot one. As I mentioned,
some of retail thin clients have a hidden boot partition that extends BIOS.
That usually small partition may be used in conjunction with a write filter
driver (not EWF) and a custom flash card driver. I don't have T5700 in my
possession so I can't tell you for sure what's in there but I am telling you
my experience with some thin clients.

Run a good disk tool to see the partitions on the device's flash card. The
diskpart.exe may be a good choice but since you really just need to see the
structure you may use any related app with GUI.

Another good trick to run your image on device without repartitioning flash
card would be a creation of a new XPe image that is based on "Windows2"
directory (any directory name that is not the same to your current device's
image windows directory). If your image supports all necessary hardware
drivers (you may figure them out from the current image), you may just copy
the entire image to your device, modify boot.ini to launch the new
"Windows2" image. Whenever FBA is finished you may clean up your initial
image from device. To use the trick you will need to be sure you flash card
is big enough to include two images (current and new one).

KM,
BSquare Corp.
 
B

Brian Schau

All,


Thanks for your replies. The situation is that:

1) I don't have a cd drive for this unit (I can probably get a USB CD drive)
and I the XPe thingy on cd1 is ... not there.

2) I will analyze the partition tables. I just reset the flash yesterday.
Maybe there is a hidden partition.

Thanks.
Brian
 
T

Tony Camilli

I'm not too well versed in SDI, but here are some general
statements

1. The T5700 only has 1 partition (no hidden partitions,
etc.)
2. In your SDI file you are creating an NTFS partition,
on your t5700 you are creating a FAT partition (bootprep
does not make it ntfs, it just writes a WinXP FAT
bootsector into the FAT partition). I'm not sure how SDI
would respond to this.
3. I've seen several problems caused by creating a
bootsector from a desktop/notebook, then trying to boot
that partition on a T5700. This problem is cause by the
T5700 ROM, which sees different drive geometry (CHS) than
a destop/notebook for the same storage device.

Things to possibly try are creating a FAT partition for
your SDI rather than NTFS, and possibly running bootprep
_after_ applying the SDI image to the flash on the T5700
(so that bootprep would be using the drive geometry
reported by the T5700 ROM).

HTH
Tony
 
S

Slobodan Brcin

WinPE is there but you can't see it.

Try to boot CD on some computer that can boot from CD.

For USB CD I have no experience with this, but if you can install Win XP
from it then it should be ok.

Regards,
Slobodan
 
K

KM

Tony,

A quick question about item #2. Doesn't it matter how the target partition
formatted?
I thought the target CF (hard drive) does not need to be formatted because
the target file system is contained in the SDI image. But I agree, no need
to run bootprep.

KM
 
B

Brian Schau

Guys,


My problem has been solved. Got a program, ibr32.exe, from HP. This
takes care of transferring the image from the SDI "partition" to a ibr-
image (ibr is also a HP invention). I used ibr to flash the image to
the T5700 and it has just completed the FBA and has booted into a very
skinny version of XP ... :)

Thanks for your interest!


Kind regards,
Brian
 

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