Strange HD Boot Problem


M

mcp6453

I have a computer with an Intel D845GRG motherboard that is exhibiting a
strange problem. When the computer boots for the first time, it does not
see the hard drive on the Secondary IDE channel. If I reboot from there
after the power has been on, it boots normally and recognizes the drive.

1) The same behavior is seen with two different drives, both new.
2) Increasing the wait-until-detect time for the IDE drives in the BIOS
to 30 seconds did not make a difference. The Secondary channel drive
does not even show up in the POST screen.
3) Testing is done at DOS, so it is not a Windows problem.

I cannot think of anything that it can be other than a motherboard
problem that requires power to be applied for more than 30 seconds
before the drive on the Secondary channel is detected. Any ideas?
 
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M

Mark Mandell

mcp6453 said:
I have a computer with an Intel D845GRG motherboard that is exhibiting a
strange problem. When the computer boots for the first time, it does not
see the hard drive on the Secondary IDE channel. If I reboot from there
after the power has been on, it boots normally and recognizes the drive.

1) The same behavior is seen with two different drives, both new.
2) Increasing the wait-until-detect time for the IDE drives in the BIOS to
30 seconds did not make a difference. The Secondary channel drive does not
even show up in the POST screen.
3) Testing is done at DOS, so it is not a Windows problem.

I cannot think of anything that it can be other than a motherboard problem
that requires power to be applied for more than 30 seconds before the
drive on the Secondary channel is detected. Any ideas?
Have you changed to a different IDE ribbon cable? Are the BIOS settings set
for fail-safe, optimized?
 
R

Rod Speed

mcp6453 said:
I have a computer with an Intel D845GRG motherboard that is exhibiting a
strange problem. When the computer boots for the first time, it does not see
the hard drive on the Secondary IDE channel. If I reboot from there after the
power has been on, it boots normally and recognizes the drive.
1) The same behavior is seen with two different drives, both new.
2) Increasing the wait-until-detect time for the IDE drives in the
BIOS to 30 seconds did not make a difference. The Secondary channel drive does
not even show up in the POST screen.
3) Testing is done at DOS, so it is not a Windows problem.
I cannot think of anything that it can be other than a motherboard
problem that requires power to be applied for more than 30 seconds before the
drive on the Secondary channel is detected.
Thats unlikely, but possible.
Any ideas?
Are you sure you have both drives jumpered correctly ?
You can get some odd effects when they arent.

What happens if you have a different master ? It looks more likely
that you have a pair of drives that dont coexist on a particular ribbon
cable well. Try reversing the master/slave relationship.

Try with both the new drives on that cable if you have them both at
once. If that config still has the delay, its likely a bad motherboard.

Try a new ribbon cable too, tho its not common to get that
particular effect with a bad ribbon cable, its just cheap to try.

It might be an inadequate power supply too. The slave may be
coming up while the power isnt up to voltage properly and it
needs a full reset with the power fully up to get the drive seen.
 
M

mcp6453

Rod said:
Thats unlikely, but possible.




Are you sure you have both drives jumpered correctly ?
You can get some odd effects when they arent.

What happens if you have a different master ? It looks more likely
that you have a pair of drives that dont coexist on a particular ribbon
cable well. Try reversing the master/slave relationship.

Try with both the new drives on that cable if you have them both at
once. If that config still has the delay, its likely a bad motherboard.

Try a new ribbon cable too, tho its not common to get that
particular effect with a bad ribbon cable, its just cheap to try.

It might be an inadequate power supply too. The slave may be
coming up while the power isnt up to voltage properly and it
needs a full reset with the power fully up to get the drive seen.

All good suggestions. I will try each one of them as time permits. By
the way, the ribbon cable is new, and I am positive that the jumpers are
correct (evidenced by the fact that they drives work perfectly after the
second boot) and are set for CS. The ribbon cable is 80-wire.
 
R

Rod Speed

mcp6453 said:
Rod Speed wrote
All good suggestions. I will try each one of them as time permits. By the way,
the ribbon cable is new,
Can still be faulty.
and I am positive that the jumpers are correct (evidenced by the fact that
they drives work perfectly after the second boot) and are set for CS.
That doesnt prove that there isnt a problem, with some
situations that arent correct, you can get some odd
symptoms like that, only working in some situations.

And some drive jumper diagrams can be quite confusing
so while you may think you have them both jumpered for
CS, that may not in fact actually be the case.
The ribbon cable is 80-wire.
Worth checking that you do have it the right way around,
with the correct connector used for the motherboard end.
You can get some odd effects with it on the wrong way around.
 
M

mcp6453

Rod said:
Can still be faulty.
The behavior is identical with the old cable as with the new cable.
That doesnt prove that there isnt a problem, with some
situations that arent correct, you can get some odd
symptoms like that, only working in some situations.

And some drive jumper diagrams can be quite confusing
so while you may think you have them both jumpered for
CS, that may not in fact actually be the case.
If the legend on the drive is correct, the jumpers are correct. I've
been doing computer work since 1980 (TRS80 days).
Worth checking that you do have it the right way around,
with the correct connector used for the motherboard end.
You can get some odd effects with it on the wrong way around.
There are three connectors. Two are closer to one end. Those two
connector to the drives. The farther connector is connected to the
motherboard. That is the correct configuration. Again, though, since the
old and the new cables act identically, I don't think there is a cable
problem.
 
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M

Mark Mandell

mcp6453 said:
The behavior is identical with the old cable as with the new cable.


If the legend on the drive is correct, the jumpers are correct. I've been
doing computer work since 1980 (TRS80 days).


There are three connectors. Two are closer to one end. Those two connector
to the drives. The farther connector is connected to the motherboard. That
is the correct configuration. Again, though, since the old and the new
cables act identically, I don't think there is a cable problem.
Well it is indeed baffling and if all else fails, it's gotta be the mobo.
 
F

Frazer Jolly Goodfellow

The behavior is identical with the old cable as with the new
cable.


If the legend on the drive is correct, the jumpers are correct.
I've been doing computer work since 1980 (TRS80 days).


There are three connectors. Two are closer to one end. Those two
connector to the drives. The farther connector is connected to
the motherboard. That is the correct configuration. Again,
though, since the old and the new cables act identically, I
don't think there is a cable problem.
Further things to try:

- change to a different Molex connector to power the drive.

- disconnect non-essential IDE devices.

- connect the drive to the slave connector of the primary IDE
channel.

- reset the CMOS memory on the motherboard
 
R

Rod Speed

mcp6453 said:
Rod Speed wrote
The behavior is identical with the old cable as with the new cable.
OK that is certainly the evidence that the cable isnt the problem.
If the legend on the drive is correct, the jumpers are correct. I've been
doing computer work since 1980 (TRS80 days).
Some of the legends are quite confusing and confuse those
who have been doint computer work since well before that.
There are three connectors. Two are closer to one end. Those two connector to
the drives.
Those should normally be grey and black.
The farther connector is connected to the motherboard.
That should normally be blue.
That is the correct configuration. Again, though, since the old and the new
cables act identically, I don't think there is a cable problem.
Sure, but you didnt mention that till now.
 
T

Thomas Wendell

Also, try jumpering as master/slave..

--
******************************************************
Most learned on these newsgroups
Tumppi, Helsinki, FINLAND
(translations from/to FI not always accurate)
******************************************************
 
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R

Robert Baer

mcp6453 said:
I have a computer with an Intel D845GRG motherboard that is exhibiting a
strange problem. When the computer boots for the first time, it does not
see the hard drive on the Secondary IDE channel. If I reboot from there
after the power has been on, it boots normally and recognizes the drive.

1) The same behavior is seen with two different drives, both new.
2) Increasing the wait-until-detect time for the IDE drives in the BIOS
to 30 seconds did not make a difference. The Secondary channel drive
does not even show up in the POST screen.
3) Testing is done at DOS, so it is not a Windows problem.

I cannot think of anything that it can be other than a motherboard
problem that requires power to be applied for more than 30 seconds
before the drive on the Secondary channel is detected. Any ideas?
I have read the other suggestions.
Start with only one IDE device - one HD jumpered and positioned as
Primary Master (without slave if Western Digital).
Test first the "good" drive this way and use the BIOS for
verification of drive type, etc.
Then test the "bad" drive the same way and again use the BIOS for
verification of drive type, etc.
Now if the "bad" drive works without any problems this way, i bet
that one of the drives is a Maxtor and the other one is not.
If that is the case, toss the Maxtor (or give it away to your worst
enemy).
If they are both Maxtor drives, i bet that they are of different
vintage; toss them both.
 
O

Odie Ferrous

mcp6453 said:
I have a computer with an Intel D845GRG motherboard that is exhibiting a
strange problem. When the computer boots for the first time, it does not
see the hard drive on the Secondary IDE channel. If I reboot from there
after the power has been on, it boots normally and recognizes the drive.

1) The same behavior is seen with two different drives, both new.
2) Increasing the wait-until-detect time for the IDE drives in the BIOS
to 30 seconds did not make a difference. The Secondary channel drive
does not even show up in the POST screen.
3) Testing is done at DOS, so it is not a Windows problem.

I cannot think of anything that it can be other than a motherboard
problem that requires power to be applied for more than 30 seconds
before the drive on the Secondary channel is detected. Any ideas?
Try reinstalling the motherboard drivers again - particularly the IDE
drivers.


Odie
 
J

John Turco

mcp6453 said:
I have a computer with an Intel D845GRG motherboard that is exhibiting a
strange problem. When the computer boots for the first time, it does not
see the hard drive on the Secondary IDE channel. If I reboot from there
after the power has been on, it boots normally and recognizes the drive.

1) The same behavior is seen with two different drives, both new.
2) Increasing the wait-until-detect time for the IDE drives in the BIOS
to 30 seconds did not make a difference. The Secondary channel drive
does not even show up in the POST screen.
3) Testing is done at DOS, so it is not a Windows problem.

I cannot think of anything that it can be other than a motherboard
problem that requires power to be applied for more than 30 seconds
before the drive on the Secondary channel is detected. Any ideas?

Hello,

It could be a temperature-related fault, on the mainboard, which
disappears (temporarily) after the computer warms up. If you allow it to
cool off, does it still display this quirk?

In such an event, turning up your home/office thermostat may offer a
solution of sorts, provided you can bear the heat. <g> Better, yet,
replace the board, if you determine it to be defective.

Good luck!


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
T

The Outsider

I have read the other suggestions.
Start with only one IDE device - one HD jumpered and positioned as
Primary Master (without slave if Western Digital).
Test first the "good" drive this way and use the BIOS for
verification of drive type, etc.
Then test the "bad" drive the same way and again use the BIOS for
verification of drive type, etc.
Now if the "bad" drive works without any problems this way, i bet
that one of the drives is a Maxtor and the other one is not.
If that is the case, toss the Maxtor (or give it away to your worst
enemy).
If they are both Maxtor drives, i bet that they are of different
vintage; toss them both.
Haha...I have this exact problem with an older 30gb Maxtor drive. As
master on it's own it works fine but if it is on a cable with another
drive I get the same symptoms the OP described. I still have the drive
but I don't use it anymore.
 
R

ReginaldP

The said:
Haha...I have this exact problem with an older 30gb Maxtor drive. As
master on it's own it works fine but if it is on a cable with another
drive I get the same symptoms the OP described. I still have the drive
but I don't use it anymore.
Its a maxtor thing , certain drives only mix with other maxtors.
 
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T

The_Jase

i just want to make a suggestion to upgrade the bios. the results just
might surprise you....unless of course you've already done so.
 
B

Brian

I had a similar problem with an AMD system and the problem was that the
drives do not spin up fast enough before the newer motherboards complete the
POST hence not recognized on initial boot. What I did as a work around
(other than replacing the drives with faster speed drives) was allow the
BIOS to run a full memory check and set the drives to autodetect on boot.
That solved the problem for me. It gave the drives time to spin up while
checking the memory and ensured they were detected with the autodetect.

You can also bypass the memory check if it takes too long but if you don't
mind waiting that extra 2 seconds for boot its a good thing to do anyway on
a cold boot.
 
R

Rod Speed

I had a similar problem with an AMD system and the problem was that
the drives do not spin up fast enough before the newer motherboards
complete the POST hence not recognized on initial boot. What I did as
a work around (other than replacing the drives with faster speed
drives) was allow the BIOS to run a full memory check and set the
drives to autodetect on boot. That solved the problem for me. It gave
the drives time to spin up while checking the memory and ensured they
were detected with the autodetect.
He already said that he had tried that.
 
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R

Robert Baer

ReginaldP said:
Its a maxtor thing , certain drives only mix with other maxtors.
I have *yet* to see any other drive work with a Maxtor, except
another Maxtor of the same vintage.
I would be interested in learning about the exceptions that you
allude to - byt be advised that non-response or generalities will be
considered as "do not know".
 

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