Strange boot failure - HDD or Power Supply or both?

[kaiaroo]

I am running Win2k Pro with the most recent SP updates on a box with
the following specs:

Asus P4S533 645DX
P4 2.4 Ghz
768mb DDR 2700 RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 128mb DDR
LeadTek WinFast TV card *
SB Audigy 2 Platinum (/w front panel board *)
NEC 3500A DVD-R
Samsung 16x DVD-ROM
PCI Linksys 10/100 Lan Card *
8 gig IBM HDD - temp / "files to burn" drive
80 gig WD Caviar SE (7200, 8mb cache) - main (OS) HDD
ThermalTake PurePower HPC-420-102 DF Power Supply (ATX 12V 420w max.
load)

* Removed in an effort to reduce power load, but still same failure

The situation:
Woke up to the system powered down (I keep it running 24/7 except for @
one night a week)
On first boot after seeing the system down, I get a blue screen STOP:
0x0000007B - Inaccessible Boot Device right before the resolution
changes to the Login Screen. Since it was showing the HDD in the BIOS,
I figured part of the registry or some driver files were corrupted. I
checked all the connections; power and IDE cables... and cleaned out
some dust.
I had not installed any new hardware or installed any programs that
would mess with such things as far as I know... so, I switch over to
booting up with the NEC drive with the Win2k Pro CD (I also have a copy
of 2k Exec.) to get into the recovery console... but, i dont make it
that far.
The system just shuts off (power failure - like). I try a few more
times, but even the one time i do make it to the RC it shuts off before
i can try anything (besides i dont want to be doing a recovery while
having power issues). At this point im feeling pretty down and I start
researching more thoroughly on the laptop. I find plenty of info on
workarounds and fixes for people with the same blue screen, but none
that address power failure WHILE attempting to use the Recovery Console
to address the (somewhat common) 7B blue screen.

So at this point, I have removed all the items with an asterisk,
thinking that im just hitting a power failure consistently and that
possible thats what even got me to the 7B blue screen in the first
place from something power related (as opposed to the problem starting
with the HDD).

Can anyone help? I thought I knew my box like the back of my hand...
but, im stumped when it comes to the consistent power failure after
something like 2-3 min into the boot to disc recovery process.
Also, something I noticed while working on the box and researching at
the same time: when trying to boot normally, the computer will not stay
at the blue screen for more than about 4-5 min, before it does has the
exact same power failure.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I can afford to spend a couple
hundred, but not to completely overhaul the box with multiple
replacement parts... especially if i dont know the source of the
problem; in other words, know that the parts will definitely fix the
problem entirely.

- kaia

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I am running Win2k Pro with the most recent SP updates on a box with
the following specs:

Asus P4S533 645DX
P4 2.4 Ghz
768mb DDR 2700 RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 128mb DDR
LeadTek WinFast TV card *
SB Audigy 2 Platinum (/w front panel board *)
NEC 3500A DVD-R
Samsung 16x DVD-ROM
PCI Linksys 10/100 Lan Card *
8 gig IBM HDD - temp / "files to burn" drive
80 gig WD Caviar SE (7200, 8mb cache) - main (OS) HDD
ThermalTake PurePower HPC-420-102 DF Power Supply (ATX 12V 420w max.
load)

* Removed in an effort to reduce power load, but still same failure

The situation:
Woke up to the system powered down (I keep it running 24/7 except for @
one night a week)
On first boot after seeing the system down, I get a blue screen STOP:
0x0000007B - Inaccessible Boot Device right before the resolution
changes to the Login Screen. Since it was showing the HDD in the BIOS,
I figured part of the registry or some driver files were corrupted. I
checked all the connections; power and IDE cables... and cleaned out
some dust.
I had not installed any new hardware or installed any programs that
would mess with such things as far as I know... so, I switch over to
booting up with the NEC drive with the Win2k Pro CD (I also have a copy
of 2k Exec.) to get into the recovery console... but, i dont make it
that far.
The system just shuts off (power failure - like). I try a few more
times, but even the one time i do make it to the RC it shuts off before
i can try anything (besides i dont want to be doing a recovery while
having power issues). At this point im feeling pretty down and I start
researching more thoroughly on the laptop. I find plenty of info on
workarounds and fixes for people with the same blue screen, but none
that address power failure WHILE attempting to use the Recovery Console
to address the (somewhat common) 7B blue screen.

So at this point, I have removed all the items with an asterisk,
thinking that im just hitting a power failure consistently and that
possible thats what even got me to the 7B blue screen in the first
place from something power related (as opposed to the problem starting
with the HDD).

Can anyone help? I thought I knew my box like the back of my hand...
but, im stumped when it comes to the consistent power failure after
something like 2-3 min into the boot to disc recovery process.
Also, something I noticed while working on the box and researching at
the same time: when trying to boot normally, the computer will not stay
at the blue screen for more than about 4-5 min, before it does has the
exact same power failure.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I can afford to spend a couple
hundred, but not to completely overhaul the box with multiple
replacement parts... especially if i dont know the source of the
problem; in other words, know that the parts will definitely fix the
problem entirely.

- kaia

Boot into the BIOS and see if the machine shuts down after a
few minutes. This would be a sure telltale that you have a hardware
problem.

 

[kaiaroo]

i have; i noticed it accidentally by leaving the blue screen up (2-3
min to power down) and then sitting at the F8 screen for a few minutes
as i was looking up other approaches (4-5 min to power down).

there is *some* fluctuation in the time of this failure, and it seems
to be at least slightly affected by what pre-windows screen it is left
on or what im trying to access.

any idea what kind of hardware problem? like i said, i could afford to
buy a couple parts, but only if i know they are going to solve the
problem.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

i have; i noticed it accidentally by leaving the blue screen up (2-3
min to power down) and then sitting at the F8 screen for a few minutes
as i was looking up other approaches (4-5 min to power down).

there is *some* fluctuation in the time of this failure, and it seems
to be at least slightly affected by what pre-windows screen it is left
on or what im trying to access.

any idea what kind of hardware problem? like i said, i could afford to
buy a couple parts, but only if i know they are going to solve the
problem.

Unless you have experience with PC hardware, your
best bet is to leave the PC with a computer repair shop.
If you attempt to repair it yourself then you are likely
to purchase components that you do not need.

 

[kaiaroo]

i have the experience of building my own 3 computers over the past ten
years, but im in over my head with some of the PC tech stuff lately.
when i look at whats on the market right everything seems to be kinda
iffy when it comes to the worth of upgrading right now...

guess that might be my best bet; then i will know exactly how to focus
my funds when it comes to the hardware. thanks for the advice.

- kaia

 

[Dan Seur]

All your fans running as they should?

Is there a battery backup device in line that you can disconnect?

i have the experience of building my own 3 computers over the past ten
years, but im in over my head with some of the PC tech stuff lately.
when i look at whats on the market right everything seems to be kinda
iffy when it comes to the worth of upgrading right now...

guess that might be my best bet; then i will know exactly how to focus
my funds when it comes to the hardware. thanks for the advice.

- kaia



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[Andrew Morton]

I am running Win2k Pro with the most recent SP updates on a box with
the following specs:

<snip stuff>

How about detaching all the drives except the floppy, taking out all but one
stick of RAM, and booting to DOS from a floppy (www.bootdisk.com if you
don't have a copy)?

And do you have an old video card that doesn't need 100+W of power?

Also,
http://support.asus.com/troubleshooting/troubleshooting.aspx?SLanguage=en-us
but I wouldn't go touching the CPU unless desperate. Anyway, you can monitor
the CPU temperature in the BIOS to see if the heatsink has come unstuck

Andrew

 

[kaiaroo]

yes, they appear to be okay in the bios and all visable fans are
moving.

like a UPS type device? no, just a surge protected power strip.

- kaia

 

[kaiaroo]

Well, that sounds like it might be worth a shot... but, then if it
doesnt fail at the recovery console where do i go from there?
as in, if i disconnect the main HDD and DVD-R than i what would i even
do from DOS? or do it just to see if the main board PS and CPU are not
the source of the problem?
thanks for that link!


I think I tossed my old Matrox Millenium after a move or two
so, no...

well i already cleaned up that area with compressed air and got a
pretty good look at the connections there. the fan and heatsink are
locked in tight as far as i can see, without completely removing them
from the CPU.
Yeah, the ASUS Q-fan supposedly auto-adjusts speed based on temperature
readings, but i check it every once in a while (ive had it set to halt
on all errors ever since i got the system).

 

[w_tom]

Try this and try that to fix the problem is the wrong strategy. You
are not yet ready to fix anything. First, essential facts are
necessary.

Like the foundation of a house, the power supply must first be
confirmed good. That does not mean swapping - trying to fix the
problem. That means collecting basic facts. In your case, voltages on
the three critical voltages (red, orange, and yellow wires) is
important using a 3.5 digital voltmeter. And not just in spec.
Voltages must exceed 3.22, 4.85, and 11.7. Those numbers should also
be reported here where they may provide other useful information that
means useful responses.

Other voltages that must be well beyond limits are on green, gray,
and purple wire. Details in previous posts in "Computer doesnt start
at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10 Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5 Feb 2004
at
http://tinyurl.com/yvbw9

Those measrements best performed when all peripherals installed AND
also when (if) computer is executing functions.

If Windows can be obtained, then information in the system (event)
log should be recovered. When hardware creates problems, Windows
records those problems and bypasses those problems - so that you can
fix those problems later at your convenience. What do the event logs
report?

Better computer manufacturers provide comprehensive diagnostics on
system or on web site. If not a system from a more responsible vendor,
then download diagnostics from individual component manufacturers or
third party diagnostics. Again, principles are simple. Break a
problem down into parts. Then solve each part. Don't even look at or
execute Windows. Otherwise you only confuse yourself. Execute
diagnostics - only test hardware. Once hardware integrity has been
established, only then consider Windows or drivers or other software
problems.

Heat is a diagnostic tool. Since one fan is more than sufficient for
a chassis, then heat is a great diagnostic tool. For example, run
memory diagnostics. Then repeat those diagnostics with memory (and
peripheral ICs) heated by a hairdryer on high. Selective heating makes
an intermittent failure appear solid and detectable. Heat permits a
diagnostic to find intermittent failures.

Ignore any post that cites a UPS or surge protector as a solution.
If they are, then that volt meter would have detected the problem even
when system appears to be working OK. Such surges and ninor voltages
do not crash a properly working system that must keep working even when
incandescant bulbs dim to less than 40% intensity. Comptuer must be
that resilient. And again, if computer is not resilient, the meter
would easily identify that problem.

Recovery console is about software. Do not do that until after
hardware integrity is established. Software (ie Windows diagnostics)
are not intended to verify hardware. Also swapping parts - trying to
fix something without first learning facts - only exponentially
increases a problem's complexity. Don't yet fix, replace, or swap
anythng. First collect facts and numbers - the 3.5 digit multimeter,
event logs, and comprehensive diagnostics. Furthermore, you responses
here will only be as good as what you provide which is why numbers and
data from logs is important.