Storage Device / Firewire Power Question

[nameruse]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Hi all,

HDD/Optical drive power requirements on manufacturer's websites are
usually listed as, e.g., 5VDC / 12VDC: 2.0 A / 1.5 A. Does this mean
the device's maximum power is (5 x 2.0) + (12 x 1.5) = 28 W, while its
typical operating power is below this value?

I plan to buy an internal LG GSA-4120B DVD multi drive with the above
rating and wish to make it portable between notebook and desktop PCs
by
using an ATA-to-1394b (or USB 2.0) bridge.

On wikipedia.org, it says the Firewire bus supplies up to 45 W of
power.
Does this mean it can power the drive? Is it possible to run this
burner
using Firewire or USB bus power only (thus no need for an additional
AC
outlet when using it with the notebook PC)? If so, what sorts of
adapters are needed?

Similar ideas are adopted in bus-powered enclosure for 2.5" HDDs, but
are
there any bus-powered ones housing 5.25" devices?

Tia



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[Impmon]

[snip]

Similar ideas are adopted in bus-powered enclosure for 2.5" HDDs, but
are there any bus-powered ones housing 5.25" devices?

As far as I understand firewire, 2.5" works only because they
generally run off +5v only while most hard drives and CD drive uses
both +5v and +12v and probably can't run off just the firewire. You
will probably need to use external power adapter to power the drive.

 

[Peter Hucker]

[snip]

Similar ideas are adopted in bus-powered enclosure for 2.5" HDDs, but
are there any bus-powered ones housing 5.25" devices?

As far as I understand firewire, 2.5" works only because they
generally run off +5v only while most hard drives and CD drive uses
both +5v and +12v and probably can't run off just the firewire. You
will probably need to use external power adapter to power the drive.

Or wire up some kind of invertor - maybe one exists?


--
FOURTEEN - CHECK OUT THE BABY! parrots and rising http://www.petersparrots.com
93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
Served from a pentawatercooled dual 2.8GHz silent Athlon with half TB RAID.

"I was walking down fifth avenue today and I found a wallet, and I was gonna keep it, rather than return it, but I thought: well, if I lost a hundred and fifty dollars, how would I feel? And I realized I would want to be taught a lesson."
-- Emo Philips

 

[Arno Wagner]

[snip]

Similar ideas are adopted in bus-powered enclosure for 2.5" HDDs, but
are there any bus-powered ones housing 5.25" devices?

As far as I understand firewire, 2.5" works only because they
generally run off +5v only while most hard drives and CD drive uses
both +5v and +12v and probably can't run off just the firewire. You
will probably need to use external power adapter to power the drive.

Or wire up some kind of invertor - maybe one exists?

Unlikely. The second reason 2.5" HDDs work is because they
consume very little energy, in the range of 10%..20% of 3.5"
drives. That is just withing reach of what firewire can supply.

Arno

 

[Peter Hucker]

[snip]

Similar ideas are adopted in bus-powered enclosure for 2.5" HDDs, but
are there any bus-powered ones housing 5.25" devices?

As far as I understand firewire, 2.5" works only because they
generally run off +5v only while most hard drives and CD drive uses
both +5v and +12v and probably can't run off just the firewire. You
will probably need to use external power adapter to power the drive.

Or wire up some kind of invertor - maybe one exists?

Unlikely. The second reason 2.5" HDDs work is because they
consume very little energy, in the range of 10%..20% of 3.5"
drives. That is just withing reach of what firewire can supply.

I was going by the 28 and 45 watts quoted by nameruse.

--
FOURTEEN - CHECK OUT THE BABY! parrots and rising http://www.petersparrots.com
93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
Served from a pentawatercooled dual 2.8GHz silent Athlon with half TB RAID.

If sex is a pain in the ass, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Eric Gisin]

Arnie is the resident troll.
USB can power 2.5" HDs. Firewire does support 3.5" and 5+" drives.

I was going by the 28 and 45 watts quoted by nameruse.

Firewire, the standard, supports 45W. The card/mainboard determines the actual
power.

PCI cards are limited to 25W. You can always increase it using a powered hub.

 

[nameruse]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Arnie is the resident troll.
USB can power 2.5" HDs. Firewire does support 3.5" and 5+" drives.

Firewire, the standard, supports 45W. The card/mainboard determines the actual
power.

PCI cards are limited to 25W. You can always increase it using a

powered hub.

I may be wrong about 28 W because I am not sure if I correctly
interpreted
the label on the device: 5V/12V: 2.0A/1.5A).
I couldn't find the actual power values from LG's web site.
The following are some HDD power values at idle from Seagate:
3.5" 15K rpm Ultra320 SCSI: 9~13 W
3.5" 10K rpm Ultra320 SCSI: 7~11 W
3.5" 7.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 7.5 W
3.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 4.5 W
2.5" 10K rpm Ultra320 SCSI: <5 W
2.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.97 W
2.5" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 1.2 W

From Hitachi:
2.5" 7.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.85~2 W
2.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.85~2 W
2.5" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.65~1.65 W

From Toshiba:
2.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 1.05 W
2.5" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.5~0.9 W
1.8" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.6 W
1.8" 3.9K rpm PC-Card: 0.7 W (3.3V), 1.1 W (5V)
[Why two values?]
0.85" 3.6K rpm Interface?: Low power consumption (from the web site


So it appears even during spin-up, HDDs should not draw more than 45
W?
Solar-power anyone?



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[Peter Hucker]

Arnie is the resident troll.
USB can power 2.5" HDs. Firewire does support 3.5" and 5+" drives.

Firewire, the standard, supports 45W. The card/mainboard determines the actual
power.

PCI cards are limited to 25W. You can always increase it using a powered hub.

So A PCI firewire card cannot actually adhere to both standards?!?

--
FOURTEEN - CHECK OUT THE BABY! parrots and rising http://www.petersparrots.com
93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
Served from a pentawatercooled dual 2.8GHz silent Athlon with half TB RAID.

Company not found c:\compan~1\useles~1\thievi~1\bastar~1\Micros~1

 

[Peter Hucker]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Arnie is the resident troll.
USB can power 2.5" HDs. Firewire does support 3.5" and 5+" drives.

Firewire, the standard, supports 45W. The card/mainboard determines the actual
power.

PCI cards are limited to 25W. You can always increase it using a

powered hub.

I may be wrong about 28 W because I am not sure if I correctly
interpreted
the label on the device: 5V/12V: 2.0A/1.5A).
I couldn't find the actual power values from LG's web site.
The following are some HDD power values at idle from Seagate:
3.5" 15K rpm Ultra320 SCSI: 9~13 W
3.5" 10K rpm Ultra320 SCSI: 7~11 W
3.5" 7.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 7.5 W
3.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 4.5 W
2.5" 10K rpm Ultra320 SCSI: <5 W
2.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.97 W
2.5" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 1.2 W

From Hitachi:
2.5" 7.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.85~2 W
2.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.85~2 W
2.5" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.65~1.65 W

From Toshiba:
2.5" 5.4K rpm Ultra ATA: 1.05 W
2.5" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.5~0.9 W
1.8" 4.2K rpm Ultra ATA: 0.6 W
1.8" 3.9K rpm PC-Card: 0.7 W (3.3V), 1.1 W (5V)
[Why two values?]
0.85" 3.6K rpm Interface?: Low power consumption (from the web site


So it appears even during spin-up, HDDs should not draw more than 45
W?
Solar-power anyone?

Oh great...... "Data error 7C: a cloud passed over"



--
FOURTEEN - CHECK OUT THE BABY! parrots and rising http://www.petersparrots.com
93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
Served from a pentawatercooled dual 2.8GHz silent Athlon with half TB RAID.

Q: Why is it hard for a woman to find men who are sensitive, caring and good looking?
A: Because those men already have boyfriends.

 

[Impmon]

Arnie is the resident troll.
USB can power 2.5" HDs. Firewire does support 3.5" and 5+" drives.

Well, Firewire can support the 3.5 and 5" drives but not power them.
I checked the firewire specs, no 12v goes through. Only 5v and only
when using 6 pin to 6 pin cable and 6 pin port. 4 pin doesn't have 5v
at all.

 

[Impmon]

So A PCI firewire card cannot actually adhere to both standards?!?

That's why some PCI firewire card have connector on board for extra
power.

 

[Eric Gisin]

Clueless. There is no 5V.

 

[Eric Gisin]

Actually, the standard allows 1.5A at 8-30V. Most cards will provide 12V,
either 0.5A from PCI or 1.5A from PSU.

powered hub.

25W is 5V @ 5A. Nobody is going to use that. The common solution is 12V from a
molex connector. That's 18W, enough from most IDE HDs.

 

[nameruse]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Well, Firewire can support the 3.5 and 5" drives but not power them.
I checked the firewire specs, no 12v goes through. Only 5v and only
when using 6 pin to 6 pin cable and 6 pin port. 4 pin doesn't have 5v
at all.

Are 9-9, 9-6, 6-6 cables capable of carrying the power
(if available) whereas 9-4, 6-4, and 4-4 are not?

In this case, it seems not so convenient to split the 5V power port
into two,
one of which is then stepped up to 12V. Could this be done though?



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[nameruse]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Oh great...... "Data error 7C: a cloud passed over"

LOL. Need energy buffer in this case
If we could reduce the power consumption of portable PCs/devices to
under, say, 5 W, there is probably enough energy in the environment
(like EM radiation) to power them?



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

So A PCI firewire card cannot actually adhere to both standards?!?

It can if it has a seperate power connection apart from the PCI bus.

 

[Impmon]

LOL. Need energy buffer in this case
If we could reduce the power consumption of portable PCs/devices to
under, say, 5 W, there is probably enough energy in the environment
(like EM radiation) to power them?

Probably not. It's like mW's and barely enough to light up an LED.
Of cource the circuitry to ectract free electricity from the air would
probably draw too much to power itself and not leave any for other
devices.

 

[Arno Wagner]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:21:37 -0700, "Eric Gisin"

Well, Firewire can support the 3.5 and 5" drives but not power them.
I checked the firewire specs, no 12v goes through. Only 5v and only
when using 6 pin to 6 pin cable and 6 pin port. 4 pin doesn't have 5v
at all.

The standard says 8V to 40V, 1.5A max. for the cabeling, i.e.
if an interface delivers more it exceeds the cabeling limits
and may create a fire hazard. I did not find minumum requirements.
In addition the 4 pin version does not have power in it.

You cannot power a regular HDD with 8V and 1.5A. There is no problem
at all to power a 5V notebook HDD from 8V and 1.5A, a simple step-down
regulator (but should be switching) is enough. If an implementation
actually delivers 12V and 1.5A, that still is not enough for a typical
3.5" HDD. For example Maxtor specifies for the Diamond Max Plus 9
a peak current fof 1.6A at 12V and 870mA at 5V. In practice
this may still work, but you may also blow a fuse or have a HDD that
does not spin up.

The person who would like to see me discredited as a troll has some
insights, but often lacks real understanding as well as civilized
behaviour.

Arno

 

[Arno Wagner]

Probably not. It's like mW's and barely enough to light up an LED.
Of cource the circuitry to ectract free electricity from the air would
probably draw too much to power itself and not leave any for other
devices.

Actually you can get some mW with a antenna, grounding on the other
side and a microwave rectifier. Has been considerd as a solution for
powering wireless sensor networks, but it is unclear whether it can
work at all in "standard" conditions.

Arno

 

[Peter Hucker]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

LOL. Need energy buffer in this case
If we could reduce the power consumption of portable PCs/devices to
under, say, 5 W, there is probably enough energy in the environment
(like EM radiation) to power them?

Not if we use LCD displays

Talking of energy, I'm seriously considering moving my fridge in here to put the reserator inside.


--
--TWO BABY CONURES!!!-- 15 parrots and increasing http://www.petersparrots.com
93 silly video clips http://www.insanevideoclips.com
1259 digital photos http://www.petersphotos.com
Served from a pentawatercooled dual silent Athlon 2.8 with terrabyte raid

You can listen to thunder after lightening to tell how close you came to getting hit. If you don't hear it never mind.