sp2..... WHY?

[Don Burnette]

Oh sure, criticize this poor sap because he did what Microsoft
said he should do, tried to upgrade with SP2, and screwed his
system in the process. Add insult to injury. I don't blame him for
being pissed off. Maybe Microsoft should put this disclaimer in
the EULA:

"Warning! If you attempt to install SP2 and you encounter
difficulties, it is ALL YOUR OWN FAULT. That's right, you are
responsible for the failure of your system to boot. You are
responsible for the blue screens. You are responsible for the
slowness of your system. Because SP2 always works, when installed
*properly* -- a proper install is defined as any install that does
not result in problems."

I don't seen anyone criticizing him.

I think if he wanted to just come here and complain, then it's a waste of
his time. He should compain directly to MS.
I also think, someone could probably help him, if he desired.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Al;
"it is ALL YOUR OWN FAULT"
I see statements like yours on these newsgroup quite often.
The funny thing is it is almost always someone such as you quoting the
unknown and rarely someone posting actual advice.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Oh sure, criticize this poor sap
because he did what Microsoft

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Al;
As long as you consider SP-2 or any upgrade "a roll of the dice.", you
are depending on luck instead of preparation.
As long as you depend on mythical luck, you are almost certain to
fail.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


I told you so, but did you
listen? Noooo. SP2 is a roll of the

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

You just changed what she said.
She said "10% with issues"
You changed it to "10% fail rate"
They are not the same at all.

Most issues are quickly resolved after making appropriate changes such
as changing the Security Center to no monitor an older anti virus that
does not have the appropriate updates to be recognized by the Security
Center.

Many of those 10% are expected and could be easily known in advance if
research is done.
Even if research is not done, most are still easily fixed with simple
reconfigurations, updated drivers or patches from the software
manufacturer.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Did you verify SP-2 compatibility with your hardware and software?
Did you prepare the computer by performing steps such as those in the
Service Pack Installation Checklist:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

 

[Al Smith]

Want to post your source for 4 out of 10 having problems, or apologize for

posting it?

I was tempted to say half the people who install SR2 have
problems, but I thought I'd give Microsoft the benefit of the
doubt. There's no way to know how many who install SP2 have
problems with certainty, since most don't bother to report them
here. Then you get into the whole question of what constitutes a
problem, and what constitutes a serious problem. There's nothing
more futile than trying to play the "my statistics are better than
your statistics" game, and no one more pathetic than those who try
to play it -- at least, 87% of the time. What we can be sure of is
that many, many, many people who try to install SP2 are very sorry
they tried.

 

[Al Smith]

Also after installing sp2 you say you get nothing. If you truely believe

that then you know absolutely nothing about service packs and even less
about computers.

So what do you get if it works, that anyone really needs? The
security fixes can be installed separately. I grant you, they are
necessary for the average user, who is determined to surf the Net
with ActiveX and all the other MS crap turned on and running, but
what else is there that is so essential, we must have it?

 

[Al Smith]

I see statements like yours on these newsgroup quite often.

The funny thing is it is almost always someone such as you quoting the
unknown and rarely someone posting actual advice.

-- Jupiter Jones [MVP]

I help when I can, Jup, but I'm not an MVP, just a Windows XP user
who's here to learn the ins and outs of the OS. Every now and then
I make a post. It bugs me that people get stomped on in here when
they complain that SP2 screwed up their system, or that they can't
get product activation to let them use their own computer. Sure,
they'd be unlikely to suffer these problems if they had your
extensive knowledge of Windows, but most people don't have that.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

So you agree "it is ALL YOUR OWN FAULT" is rarely if ever said here.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

And a significant portion of those had problems to begin with.
Others do not try to find the quick solution, they simply uninstall
SP-2 never knowing all they had to do was install an anti virus or
reconfigure their firewall.

Until you separate those with issues,
Those with issues that could have been prevented with preparation,
And those simply needing a simple patch, driver or reconfiguration
"my statistics are better than your statistics" game,"
And that game is what you get when you group those three groups
together when they do not belong together.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Al;
Then don't install it.
Your needs are not indicative of the entire Windows XP population,
maybe a part, but that is all.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


So what do you get if it works,
that anyone really needs? The

 

[Rock]

Oh sure, criticize this poor sap because he did what Microsoft said he
should do, tried to upgrade with SP2, and screwed his system in the
process. Add insult to injury. I don't blame him for being pissed off.
Maybe Microsoft should put this disclaimer in the EULA:

"Warning! If you attempt to install SP2 and you encounter difficulties,
it is ALL YOUR OWN FAULT. That's right, you are responsible for the
failure of your system to boot. You are responsible for the blue
screens. You are responsible for the slowness of your system. Because
SP2 always works, when installed *properly* -- a proper install is
defined as any install that does not result in problems."

There was no criticizing. Why do you want to take a reasonable posting
and turn it into something it isn't?

 

[Jone Doe]

And a significant portion of those had problems to begin with.
Others do not try to find the quick solution, they simply uninstall SP-2
never knowing all they had to do was install an anti virus or reconfigure
their firewall.

Until you separate those with issues,
Those with issues that could have been prevented with preparation,
And those simply needing a simple patch, driver or reconfiguration
"my statistics are better than your statistics" game,"
And that game is what you get when you group those three groups together
when they do not belong together.

Interesting again. Your stats were made up on the spot, as evidenced by "I
was tempted to say half the people who install SR2 have problems, but I
thought I'd give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt"

Let's take it out of computers, and go into automotive for a bit. I drive a
car, I'm not a mechanic. I put in gas when the guage tells me to. I never
check the water, or the oil, or the power steering fluid, or the
transmission. No, I never look at the brakes or tires either, why should I?
I just add gas. One day the station advertises better engine cleaners in
their gas, so I put it in, and the brakes fail and it overheats. Has to be
the fault of the gas station, right? I had a uncle that used that brand,
and had trouble with his transmission. In fact my brother used it, and now
his car won't start.

What I'm trying to say is you need to maintain your system, and if you don't
or won't, and refuse to take it in to someone who can, don't blame MS for
your problems.

 

[Al Smith]

So you agree "it is ALL YOUR OWN FAULT" is rarely if ever said here.

-- Jupiter Jones [MVP]

I don't think you've ever said it. You seem a reasonable guy. It
has been said, in other words, by quite a few responders. Stuff
such as, "If you don't have a clue, you shouldn't be trying to run
Windows at all." That sort of thing, which I believe is
unnecessarily unkind. Although I grant you, some of the things
people do makes you shake your head.

 

[Al Smith]

Al;

Then don't install it.
Your needs are not indicative of the entire Windows XP population,
maybe a part, but that is all.

-- Jupiter Jones [MVP]

I haven't installed SP2, and don't intend to. The install would
probably go fine for me, and in any case, I'd have a mirrored
compressed backup to fall back on if it didn't, but my computer is
running like a Swiss watch, so I see no reason to risk messing it up.

 

[Al Smith]

Let's take it out of computers, and go into automotive for a bit. I drive a

car, I'm not a mechanic. I put in gas when the guage tells me to. I never
check the water, or the oil, or the power steering fluid, or the
transmission. No, I never look at the brakes or tires either, why should I?
I just add gas. One day the station advertises better engine cleaners in
their gas, so I put it in, and the brakes fail and it overheats. Has to be
the fault of the gas station, right? I had a uncle that used that brand,
and had trouble with his transmission. In fact my brother used it, and now
his car won't start.

What I'm trying to say is you need to maintain your system, and if you don't
or won't, and refuse to take it in to someone who can, don't blame MS for
your problems.

Average folks using Windows Update expect the updates to work.
When you put gas into your car, you expect it to run your engine
without clogging up your fuel filter, right? You expect it not to
be full of water. You expect it to perform as stated. You expect
the gas to be gas.

As long as they know that there is a very good change that SP2
will not work, and will severely screw up their computers, I have
no problem with them trying to install it. However, I don't like
it when they get told in this group that they are at fault because
it screwed up. Usually, this isn't the case. They are average
computer systems with average stats.

 

[Phil]

I don't think you've ever said it. You seem a reasonable guy. It
has been said, in other words, by quite a few responders. Stuff
such as, "If you don't have a clue, you shouldn't be trying to run
Windows at all." That sort of thing, which I believe is
unnecessarily unkind. Although I grant you, some of the things
people do makes you shake your head.

I think one reason why experts get on the newbies about their sp2 complaints
is because the computer has been degraded to a simple household appliance,
like a vcr. Because of marketing, many people believe this and rush out to
buy a computer knowing nothing about it or how to maintain it. A computer is
not a toy or an appliance. It is a high tech, expensive, tool and should be
treated as such. People need to learn to use and maintain that tool
correctly. This includes installing os's and service packs. I know you're
going to say, but some people don't have the time or want to learn how to
use the computer. To that I say, then maybe they don't need that computer.
If you don't want to learn how to drive, you don't go out and buy a car.
Maybe sometimes it seems harsh, but this is the reason why were even in this
group. To teach people how to use their computer correctly.

 

[Phil]

So what do you get if it works, that anyone really needs? The
security fixes can be installed separately. I grant you, they are
necessary for the average user, who is determined to surf the Net
with ActiveX and all the other MS crap turned on and running, but
what else is there that is so essential, we must have it?

There is 5 million new lines of code and patches and such in sp2 that don't
exist in any other form or update package.

 

[David Senior [MVP - Most Valuable Person]]

I am MVP - Most Valuable Person; I don't use many M$ products but I do bash Jupitor Jones and his fellow prostitutes working for free for Uncle Bill!

I help when I can, Jup, but I'm not an MVP, just a Windows XP user
who's here to learn the ins and outs of the OS. Every now and then
I make a post. It bugs me that people get stomped on in here when
they complain that SP2 screFri up their system, or that they can't
get product activation to let them use their own computer. Sure,
they'd be unlikely to suffer these problems if they had your
extensive knowledge of Windows, but most people don't have that.

--
I use non Microsoft products wherever possible which requires no activation.

I use Netscape 7.2 as my default browser which has everything I need for my work.

I believe in good Financial Management!! I do not believe in enriching rich jerks!

 

[David Senior [MVP - Most Valuable Person]]

I am MVP - Most Valuable Person; I don't use many M$ products but I do bash
Jupitor Jones and his fellow prostitutes working for free for Uncle Bill!

I help when I can, Jup, but I'm not an MVP, just a Windows XP user
who's here to learn the ins and outs of the OS. Every now and then
I make a post. It bugs me that people get stomped on in here when
they complain that SP2 screFri up their system, or that they can't
get product activation to let them use their own computer. Sure,
they'd be unlikely to suffer these problems if they had your
extensive knowledge of Windows, but most people don't have that.

--
I use non Microsoft products wherever possible which requires no activation.

I use Netscape 7.2 as my default browser which has everything I need for my work.

I believe in good Financial Management!! I do not believe in enriching rich jerks!