SP2 what a bunch of @#$!!!

[red floyd]

[redacted]

I hadn't been following this thread long, and the post I read showed no
indication that Tom had been talking about gaming.

If you're a gamer, that's one thing. But my points still apply to
corporate drones.

 

[Phil]

[redacted]

I hadn't been following this thread long, and the post I read showed
no indication that Tom had been talking about gaming.

If you're a gamer, that's one thing. But my points still apply to
corporate drones.

Ya, the op's original post talked about sp2 not working with games and that
ms doesn't care about gamers and xp is not good to game with and that ati
and ms don't work together. All untrue.

 

[Guest]

I recently installed the update on a brand new computer (HP a620n) and after
it rebooted, it would get to the loading windows screen and then flash a blue
screen for like .5 seconds and reboot. It kept this repetitive pattern until
I performed a destructive restore. That was an interesting enough problem to
keep me from updating on my own system for now.

 

[Guest]

Exactly my experience - all I had to do was to configure the firewall to
permit Remote Desktop (as I expected, having first taken the trouble to read
teh information supplied)

 

[Dave Nelson]

I recently installed the update on a brand new computer (HP a620n) and after
it rebooted, it would get to the loading windows screen and then flash a blue
screen for like .5 seconds and reboot. It kept this repetitive pattern until
I performed a destructive restore. That was an interesting enough problem to
keep me from updating on my own system for now.

Hmmm... I always view Microsoft updates askance, and SP2 was no
different. However, I went ahead with it. It actually didn't screw up
too badly. My computer runs slower now, and it re-assigned a couple of
file types to the approved Microsoft programs. It's "security" agent
annoyed me for a while, until I got it turned off. When I hear all
these horror stories, I feel very blessed indeed.
--Dave

 

[Jonathan Wilson]

I am running it and so far no problems.
Once I figured out how to turn off the firewall/security crap (I have a
hardware firewall in my 802.11 WiFi AP) and once I upgraded to the latest
version of a few things (Norton Anti-Virus, Compuware Numega Softice, Nero
Burning Rom mainly) everything is working fine.

 

[Rick Merrill]

I am running it and so far no problems.
Once I figured out how to turn off the firewall/security ...

Care to share how you did that? - RM

 

[Malke]

Care to share how you did that? - RM

Control Panel>Windows Firewall. Turn it off. Then go to the Control
Panel Security Center applet and change the way it alerts you. Disable
the alerts for the firewall.

Malke

 

[Guest]

Well, if your stupid enoguh to read emails from unknow places which have
attachments, then more fool you. Trust no one, and no one can hurt you. Goes
well for computers. Don't trust anyones data, and none of it can damage your
system

 

[Ben]

Well, if your stupid enoguh to read emails from unknow places which have
attachments, then more fool you. Trust no one, and no one can hurt you. Goes
well for computers. Don't trust anyones data, and none of it can damage your
system

:

Yes, trust no one, because everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Guest]

ya gret raving nobsac

It is generally accepted by techies but not your average user and that's not
the only preparation that one needs to do. MS only advised to enable AU
which is irresponsible and the cause for many problems.

On the Windows Update page, there should be a link saying READ THIS BEFORE
INSTALLING SP 2! and automatic update should have never been created in the
first place.

Alias

 

[Guest]

Two facts to consider when installing/working with software.

(A) I'm sorry if I step on toes, but the truth is that people are a lot less
informed than the Tech community believes. 'MOST' people do not know how to
check email, and if they do, it's because some tech support person manually
set it up for them. If something breaks, they are clueless. People do not
understand what "Download" means, they do not understand what "Updates" are
for, they do not understand why their machine might be "at risk". Only the
small handful of tech saavy people out there even understand how security is
important to the computing environment. People don't understand the concept
of 'upgrade' and 'fixes'. They believe that they buy a product, and it should
always be that product, and never change. They don't comprehend what a
"browser" is, even if they use the internet. over 70% of PC Users (according
to a research done in PC Magazine) do not even understand what 'websites' and
'search engines' are. Did you know that the market is COMPLETELY Dominated
with almost exclusively ignorant users who ONLY know how to go to websites
that they have a hard, direct URL to? People don't even know they can search
the internet, much less know what newsgroups and forums are, or even how to
view them. Over 50% of home users do not understand the concept of User
Accounts, yet Microsoft always says to 'Divide up your system into multiple
accounts'. Over 90% of users do not understand the difference between email
and internet, they believe they are the same thing. Even more people do not
comprehend the concept of CD-RW or Disk Backup. They can't fathom the
understanding that Hard Disks (if they even know what they are) are TEMPORARY
STORAGE ONLY!

The point is that people are not stupid, they are IGNORANT. (Hell if I know
how to do service work on my car, I'm not stupid am I? Just ignorant about
cars) and tech people 'assume' more than they should.

Service Pack 2 was straightforward for me and most of my friends, but my
Mother ...she doesn't even know what "Windows Update" is. The problem is that
people expect to be catered to, and I think businesses are realizing that it
is not possible to cater to everyone. There has to be a cut-off point to
where basically it's said "If you can't understand x amount of material to
use this product, then you're not going to be any more informed". It's a sad
thing to notice, but it's the truth. Software CANNOT BE IDIOT PROOF!!! It
cannot be done.No software with any level of functionality beyond basic
NOTEPAD or 'MAYBE' MS PAINT can be devoid of stupidity. There has to be a
level of knowledge people have to know ...

My rant aside, the case in point about Service Pack 2 is that it is an
'upgrade', not an 'update'. The general principle of an upgrade is that it is
major, and attended. Service Pack 2 was not designed for a user to put a disk
in and walk away and come back to a happy computer, Service Pack 2 was
designed for users who have the knowledge to install it ...to install it.
It's a 'MAJOR' upgrade to an existing system. If you are going to have a part
installed on your car, you do not do it yourself IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE
TECHNICAL KNOW HOW TO DO IT! You take it to your car dealer or whoever
fixes/works on your vehicle for you, and THEY do it. People who have problems
with specific issues in the Service Pack need to report them... but those who
just plain don't understand them ...I'm sorry to be so ...arrogant as some
may say ...but ..'TOO BAD'.

It is partly the fault of Microsoft and other companies for making
assumptions, but as a consumer, the liability of what you do with your
machine is in your hands. People trust software too much, they download and
install it flippantly. This is why Spyware runs rampant, and until software
is made harder to use (not 'harder to use', but rather, less ignorant-proof)
I do not believe security will ever improve...

 

[Tom Pepper Willett]

Wow, Derek. Finally, someone who understands what this issue is all about.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Tom
| Two facts to consider when installing/working with software.
|
| (A) I'm sorry if I step on toes, but the truth is that people are a lot
less
| informed than the Tech community believes. 'MOST' people do not know how
to
| check email, and if they do, it's because some tech support person
manually
| set it up for them. If something breaks, they are clueless. People do not
| understand what "Download" means, they do not understand what "Updates"
are
| for, they do not understand why their machine might be "at risk". Only the
| small handful of tech saavy people out there even understand how security
is
| important to the computing environment. People don't understand the
concept
| of 'upgrade' and 'fixes'. They believe that they buy a product, and it
should
| always be that product, and never change. They don't comprehend what a
| "browser" is, even if they use the internet. over 70% of PC Users
(according
| to a research done in PC Magazine) do not even understand what 'websites'
and
| 'search engines' are. Did you know that the market is COMPLETELY Dominated
| with almost exclusively ignorant users who ONLY know how to go to websites
| that they have a hard, direct URL to? People don't even know they can
search
| the internet, much less know what newsgroups and forums are, or even how
to
| view them. Over 50% of home users do not understand the concept of User
| Accounts, yet Microsoft always says to 'Divide up your system into
multiple
| accounts'. Over 90% of users do not understand the difference between
email
| and internet, they believe they are the same thing. Even more people do
not
| comprehend the concept of CD-RW or Disk Backup. They can't fathom the
| understanding that Hard Disks (if they even know what they are) are
TEMPORARY
| STORAGE ONLY!
|
| The point is that people are not stupid, they are IGNORANT. (Hell if I
know
| how to do service work on my car, I'm not stupid am I? Just ignorant about
| cars) and tech people 'assume' more than they should.
|
| Service Pack 2 was straightforward for me and most of my friends, but my
| Mother ...she doesn't even know what "Windows Update" is. The problem is
that
| people expect to be catered to, and I think businesses are realizing that
it
| is not possible to cater to everyone. There has to be a cut-off point to
| where basically it's said "If you can't understand x amount of material to
| use this product, then you're not going to be any more informed". It's a
sad
| thing to notice, but it's the truth. Software CANNOT BE IDIOT PROOF!!! It
| cannot be done.No software with any level of functionality beyond basic
| NOTEPAD or 'MAYBE' MS PAINT can be devoid of stupidity. There has to be a
| level of knowledge people have to know ...
|
| My rant aside, the case in point about Service Pack 2 is that it is an
| 'upgrade', not an 'update'. The general principle of an upgrade is that it
is
| major, and attended. Service Pack 2 was not designed for a user to put a
disk
| in and walk away and come back to a happy computer, Service Pack 2 was
| designed for users who have the knowledge to install it ...to install it.
| It's a 'MAJOR' upgrade to an existing system. If you are going to have a
part
| installed on your car, you do not do it yourself IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE
| TECHNICAL KNOW HOW TO DO IT! You take it to your car dealer or whoever
| fixes/works on your vehicle for you, and THEY do it. People who have
problems
| with specific issues in the Service Pack need to report them... but those
who
| just plain don't understand them ...I'm sorry to be so ...arrogant as some
| may say ...but ..'TOO BAD'.
|
| It is partly the fault of Microsoft and other companies for making
| assumptions, but as a consumer, the liability of what you do with your
| machine is in your hands. People trust software too much, they download
and
| install it flippantly. This is why Spyware runs rampant, and until
software
| is made harder to use (not 'harder to use', but rather, less
ignorant-proof)
| I do not believe security will ever improve...
|
| "Enkidu" wrote:
|
| >
| > The average techie would assume (probably wrongly) that you had
| > already virus scanned the install package.
| >
| > Cheers,
| >
| > Cliff
| >
| > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 02:03:05 -0700, Andrew
| >
| > >It is generally accepted by the average user that disabling AV in order
to
| > >install a program that may or may not contain a virus just means the
techies
| > >are techie by name but not by nature.....
| > >
| > >"Mike H" wrote:
| > >
| > >> It is generally accepted that a/v should be disabled when installing
| > >> programs, even though it it not always necessary so to do..
| > >>
| > >>
| > >> | > >> >
| > >> >>
| > >> >
| > >> >> >I had a PERFECTLY normal, secure, wonderful (hah!) running system
before
| > >> > I
| > >> >> >installed SP2 for Windows XP, which destroyed EVERYTHING!!!! I
had
| > >> >> >McAfee
| > >> >> >Security Service running, which apparently conflicted with
windows
| > >> >> >security, in spite of windows trying their best to make it as
generic as
| > >> >> >possible. Well, after UNINSTALLING mcafee and telling the dumb,
!@#$!@
| > >> >> >windows Firewall to shutup and let port 10277 be accessible from
outside
| > >> >> >the network, it still did NOT allow 10277 (just a random port --
it has
| > >> > no
| > >> >> >significance by the way) to be accessed from outside the network.
I then
| > >> >> >switched the firewall OFF and it STILL "silently" firewalled my
computer
| > >> >> >WITHOUT my concent!!!!!THEN! on top of ALL of this, INTERNET
EXPLORER
| > >> >> >started misbehaving. Every time I try browsing a site, I have to
refresh
| > >> >> >bloody ten times to get it to display the page. Most of the times
I get
| > >> > the
| > >> >> >"Page cannot be displayed - check your connection" error and God
knows
| > >> > what
| > >> >> >else. I'm tired of this.. I've uninstalled it and I am PRAYING
that my
| > >> >> >computer becomes USABLE again. DO NOT INSTALL SP2 unless you know
| > >> >> >nothing
| > >> >> >about computers and all you do on your desktop is check emails
and use
| > >> >> >MICROSOFT'S MSN!!!
| > >> >> >
| > >> >>
| > >> >> SP2 has worked perfectly for me and for 10s of thousands of other
users.
| > >> >
| > >> > I doubt very seriously that you have contacted "10s of thousands of
other
| > >> > users".
| > >> >
| > >> >> I gather you failed to read that your anti-virus should be OFF
when you
| > >> >> install SP2. You act like your experience was based on how SP2
was
| > >> > written,
| > >> >> not on your sloppy installation method.
| > >> >>
| > >> >> --
| > >> >> Gregg C.
| > >> >
| > >> > The only instruction from MS is activate AU. Nothing about AVs,
programs
| > >> > running in the background, etc. This is irresponsible. Period. Your
| > >> > patronizing and denigrating attitude towards non-techies is not
warranted.
| > >> >
| > >> > Alias
| > >> >
| > >> >
| > >>
| > >>
| > >>
| >
| >

 

[Guest]

Since at least 90% these posts are useless rants, I thought I'd join in...

-- begin rant

Only because I am sitting here at work on a Sunday afternoon babysitting a
data transfer off of a failing RAID array (I am primarily a software
developer, but I am also an IT engineer) did I decide to read through all 100
posts on this subject, just for kicks.

What is my conclusion? You people have way too much time on your hands (as
do I, see previous paragraph).

First and foremost, the name of this newsgroup is vstudio.development. I
think I read one post here that even mentioned the effect of SP2 on Visual
Studio. None of the other posts have anything to do with Visual Studio or
even development in general.

Also, there are about as many posts saying SP2 "works fine for me" as there
are saying SP2 "totally screwed my system," but almost none of them give any
useful information that might help track down the source of the issues.

Finally, as an IT professional with over 10 years experience, here is my
advice on what to do with SP2:

1. Determine if you even need it.
Too many people see a new update available and just install it without
even researching what's in it. If you don’t need it or want it for a
particular reason, don’t install it.

2. Read the documentation.
Before upgrading, make sure you understand the proper installation
procedures as well as both the expected and possible effects on your current
installation. If you do not understand or are not comfortable with the
documentation, hire a professional to do the job.

3. Follow the documented installation procedures.
I won't repeat all of them here, but the basics are:
- BACKUP YOUR SYSTEM (most important step of all)
- Remove any spyware/adware/viruses
- Update all software and drivers to the latest version (especially AV
and firewall)
- Install SP2
- Test your key applications

Following these steps will give you the best chance of successfully
upgrading to SP2, and having a full backup will protect you from any
potential problems.

-- end rant

 

[Andre Da Costa]

Windows XP SP2 already does a restore point before installing.

Andre

 

[Charlie]

With "over 10 years of experience" I am very surprised you think some people
don't need SP2. Exactly which ones don't need to be secure and protect
their data? SP2 isn't just a new update - it is a critical update. I think
your post falls into the 90% you referenced earlier.

 

[Guest]

Here here JRB.

This is correct. I'm a .NET developer and have had no problems with SP2,
following the instructions given.

I appreciate there may be errors with it somewhere on some configurations
but lets face it, using it as an excuse to have a go at microsoft.

Linux is just trying to copy windows, and yes people spend most of their
time adjusting settings with it.

"Linux is just trying to copy windows"... Being just a .Net developer, you
better stick with what you know and not branch out and experience some of the
great features Windows could only hope to offer. The most important of which
is a solid command shell. Becuase let's face it, while Windows can make us
all feel like techie gods, Linux will not allow you the same delusion of
grandeur some of you here seem to have.

That siad, my experience with SP2 is that it doesn't play nicely with many
of my 3D drivers rendering many of my games not playable. Oddly enough,
Halo, a game made by Microsoft, was among them. So I did experience a
problem that was related to the software. If it helps any of your egos at
all, my install went flawlessly, though I have rolled back until things
become a little more stable. But like anything, there are work arounds if
you have the time to find them and trust thrid party apps...

 

[Gui]

You should reformat and install Linux and play all of your games on that
platform then.
Let the rest of us know how you make out - We'll be holding our breath
waiting...........

 

[Yves Leclerc]

To further discuss this 3D problem, I also had this occur om my PC. No 3D
game would work. What I then did is to:

1) Un-install the video card drivers (Add/Remove Programs)

2) Install the latest drivers for my video card.

This fixed my problem.

Y.

BTW: I have a nVidia FX 5200, so the video card drivers are still being
updated.

 

[Guest]

Actually, I had the same problems with IE, and my P2P programs have a hard
time with the new firewall. And in my case, msn mail doesn't even work. I
am using Mozilla to check my hotmail now.

Amit