Some RAM confusion.

[Brian V]

On my system (It's an Acer Aspire E380 Windows XP 32-bit), The manufactures
specs say it has a 4Gb limit for Memory. There are 4 slots for the RAM. I
went on the crucial.com web-site, it scanned my computer (and like in some
posts people replyed to on another topic from me): There is a 4Gb limit
(4096MB).

I downloaded some drivers and updates for some stuff on my computer the last
few days. Some stuff had to do with my graphics card and one was an Acer
eSettings Management application. It gives my a information: in Summary,
Processor, Memory, MB and BIOS, Video, Audio and Network. There is all the
information I need, and can probably find this in the control panel and
system information, etc in XP. The difference is:

When I click Memory, it says The Current Memory Size (I have 1 GB) it also
says supported Maximum is 16 Gb. It says supported types: Unknown, Memory
slots: 4, Slot 1: 512Mb, slot 2: 512Mb, Slot 3 and 4: Not Installed.

I can provide a screenshot: Just tell me how. It's limit is 4Gb, but another
program says I can use 16Gb. It makes no sense.

Why is this so and can I put 16 Gb in there? If I changed my processor or
upgraded to 64-bit Vista or Xp or something, can I utilize the 16 Gb's? If I
did put this amount of RAM in and there is a descrepency like this: Would my
system not use the RAM, crash, catch fire, etc?

Another thing I'v done is I installed a lot of drivers from Acers web-site
and from my sound cards web-site. Some of these changed the XP factory
included files (I got asked to proceed or not). My system is still running
smooth, and the driver numbers are much higher now (and the dates are more
current). I did download a motherboard driver from NVIDIA and my system did
not have one before. The sound card is a: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE nForce 430.
The motherboard is an nForce 520LE (I think). If anyone looks on NVIDIA's
site, that is the info, just run the search.

I could add that much RAM if I wanted to. I am curious as to why this is
happening. I plan on going to 3 or 4 Gb, and I am sure that will be enough.

Thank you very much.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "Brian V" <[email protected]>

| On my system (It's an Acer Aspire E380 Windows XP 32-bit), The manufactures
| specs say it has a 4Gb limit for Memory. There are 4 slots for the RAM. I
| went on the crucial.com web-site, it scanned my computer (and like in some
| posts people replyed to on another topic from me): There is a 4Gb limit
| (4096MB).

| I downloaded some drivers and updates for some stuff on my computer the last
| few days. Some stuff had to do with my graphics card and one was an Acer
| eSettings Management application. It gives my a information: in Summary,
| Processor, Memory, MB and BIOS, Video, Audio and Network. There is all the
| information I need, and can probably find this in the control panel and
| system information, etc in XP. The difference is:

| When I click Memory, it says The Current Memory Size (I have 1 GB) it also
| says supported Maximum is 16 Gb. It says supported types: Unknown, Memory
| slots: 4, Slot 1: 512Mb, slot 2: 512Mb, Slot 3 and 4: Not Installed.

| I can provide a screenshot: Just tell me how. It's limit is 4Gb, but another
| program says I can use 16Gb. It makes no sense.

| Why is this so and can I put 16 Gb in there? If I changed my processor or
| upgraded to 64-bit Vista or Xp or something, can I utilize the 16 Gb's? If I
| did put this amount of RAM in and there is a descrepency like this: Would my
| system not use the RAM, crash, catch fire, etc?

| Another thing I'v done is I installed a lot of drivers from Acers web-site
| and from my sound cards web-site. Some of these changed the XP factory
| included files (I got asked to proceed or not). My system is still running
| smooth, and the driver numbers are much higher now (and the dates are more
| current). I did download a motherboard driver from NVIDIA and my system did
| not have one before. The sound card is a: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE nForce 430.
| The motherboard is an nForce 520LE (I think). If anyone looks on NVIDIA's
| site, that is the info, just run the search.

| I could add that much RAM if I wanted to. I am curious as to why this is
| happening. I plan on going to 3 or 4 Gb, and I am sure that will be enough.

| Thank you very much.

Go to the manufacturer, Acer, and see what THEY indicate is the max. RAM the motherbaord
can handle.

In any case, Win32 can ONLY handle 4GB even if there is greater than 4GB in the system.
However, due to overhead, the OS (Win32) will actually use 3.25~3.5GB of the 4GB max.

MAX RAM for Win32 =~ 2^32

 

[The Seabat]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:46:02 -0800, Brian V

I click Memory, it says The Current Memory Size (I have 1 GB) it also

The 16GB limit is probably being reported by your motherboard and CPU.
You have four slots available, so you could install 4 sticks of 4GB
each RAM for a total of 16GB and your motherboard would not reject it.
But, and it's a big but, Windows XP 32-bit OS will only see and use
4GB of RAM no matter how much you have installed. It's a limit of the
OS. Actually it's not even using the whole 4GB as some is allocated to
the video card, but that's another discussion.
Bottom line, with XP 32-bit OS it's a waste of money to install more
than 4GB of RAM, even if your MB and CPU can handle it.
HTH

 

[Doum]

The Seabat <[email protected]> écrivait

But, and it's a big but, Windows XP 32-bit OS will only see and use
4GB of RAM no matter how much you have installed. It's a limit of the
OS.

It's a limit of the 32 bits architecture, whatever the OS is.

Actually it's not even using the whole 4GB as some is allocated to

the video card,
????

but that's another discussion.

Right!

 

[Shenan Stanley]

On my system (It's an Acer Aspire E380 Windows XP 32-bit), The
manufactures
specs say it has a 4Gb limit for Memory. There are 4 slots for the RAM. I
went on the crucial.com web-site, it scanned my computer (and like in some
posts people replyed to on another topic from me): There is a 4Gb limit
(4096MB).

I downloaded some drivers and updates for some stuff on my computer the
last
few days. Some stuff had to do with my graphics card and one was an Acer
eSettings Management application. It gives my a information: in Summary,
Processor, Memory, MB and BIOS, Video, Audio and Network. There is all the
information I need, and can probably find this in the control panel and
system information, etc in XP. The difference is:

When I click Memory, it says The Current Memory Size (I have 1 GB) it also
says supported Maximum is 16 Gb. It says supported types: Unknown, Memory
slots: 4, Slot 1: 512Mb, slot 2: 512Mb, Slot 3 and 4: Not Installed.

I can provide a screenshot: Just tell me how. It's limit is 4Gb, but
another
program says I can use 16Gb. It makes no sense.

Why is this so and can I put 16 Gb in there? If I changed my processor or
upgraded to 64-bit Vista or Xp or something, can I utilize the 16 Gb's? If
I
did put this amount of RAM in and there is a descrepency like this: Would
my
system not use the RAM, crash, catch fire, etc?

Another thing I'v done is I installed a lot of drivers from Acers web-site
and from my sound cards web-site. Some of these changed the XP factory
included files (I got asked to proceed or not). My system is still running
smooth, and the driver numbers are much higher now (and the dates are more
current). I did download a motherboard driver from NVIDIA and my system
did
not have one before. The sound card is a: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE nForce
430.
The motherboard is an nForce 520LE (I think). If anyone looks on NVIDIA's
site, that is the info, just run the search.

I could add that much RAM if I wanted to. I am curious as to why this is
happening. I plan on going to 3 or 4 Gb, and I am sure that will be
enough.

Thank you very much.

You likely will not use more than 2GB unless you edit video/heavy 3D
pictures or are really into mixing music. Maybe some database applications?
Running virtual machines?

Anyway - I would trust the manufacturer first, crucial second (after all -
they are trying to SELL you something and why would they tell you a number
less than what they could possibly sell you?) and the management
utility/some software like that seldom (even if it is from the
manufacturer). ;-)

Manual says 4GB - that's it.
Crucial says 4GB - that's it.

Windows 32-bit says 4GB - all the rest doesn't matter. ;-)

As for 64-bit - yeah - the OS could have access to it. I have several
servers with 64+GB memory. Would *you* ever likely use it all? See the
queries above.

 

[Paul]

You likely will not use more than 2GB unless you edit video/heavy 3D
pictures or are really into mixing music. Maybe some database applications?
Running virtual machines?

Anyway - I would trust the manufacturer first, crucial second (after all -
they are trying to SELL you something and why would they tell you a number
less than what they could possibly sell you?) and the management
utility/some software like that seldom (even if it is from the
manufacturer). ;-)

Manual says 4GB - that's it.
Crucial says 4GB - that's it.

Windows 32-bit says 4GB - all the rest doesn't matter. ;-)

As for 64-bit - yeah - the OS could have access to it. I have several
servers with 64+GB memory. Would *you* ever likely use it all? See the
queries above.

Crucial doesn't usually correct what a manufacturer provides in terms of
information. They do make exceptions though. For example, 440BX chipsets
years ago, had "128MB" as the largest DIMM. Yet, it was discovered later,
that they would take 256MB ones. Crucial has listed 256MB products for
some time, based on knowing the reasons why it works. That would be
in contrast to the crusty 128MB info in the motherboard manual.

But they don't go around correcting every thing that doesn't make technical sense.

In the case of the OP's E380, the memory controller is on the processor itself
and not the chipset.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/gf6150-gf6100_2.html#sect0

If we take a motherboard from the same generation, with a similar chipset,
we can look at the memory recommendation and compare it. This one
recommends 4x2GB max.

http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socketAM2/M2NPV-VM/e2806_m2npv-vm.pdf

Now, a minus I can find, is one user of the E380 tried to upgrade to 4GB
using 4x1GB, and found it didn't work. Anything more than 2x1GB failed.
Another user reported what seemed to be a bad DIMM slot. You have to ask
yourself, how good is the BIOS that comes with that motherboard.

Some possible upgrade options would be:

1) Buy 4x1GB, install in pairs, see what happens.

2) On the theory that the board has a problem with using all the memory
slots, you could buy 2x2GB and see what happens. There is a less
good fallback position, if the board doesn't like it. You could
easily be stuck with 2x2GB you can't use, if the BIOS kicks up a
stink.

I have a feeling the *hardware* can accept even more memory, but it takes
a quality BIOS in order to use it.

I can give an example with my own motherboard. Manufacturer says "2x1GB max".
Installed 2x1GB, worked flawlessly. Then, I read on a German web site, that
the board could take more. I tried 2x2GB and it worked! Even the chipset
manufacturer did not admit to that being the case. Now, what is the problem
with that ? The BIOS doesn't have optimal settings for 2GB modules. For
example, I can install 1GB + 2GB for a total of 3GB, and I get memory errors.
I also get memory errors with 2x2GB. The BIOS is not designed with 2GB tuning
in mind. And it was noted on some Intel chipsets, that there is a difference
between the chipset settings needed for 1GB and 2GB modules (it actually
took BIOS updates when 2GB modules came out, to get them error free). No
technical explanation has ever been delivered as to what these differences
might be.

So on the one hand, there is a hint the hardware can take more. But there
is also evidence the BIOS may be less than capable on the E380.

In the case of my own motherboard, I'm back to 2x1GB and quite happy with the
outcome. I can make a nice pair of Christmas tree ornaments, from my 2x2GB
modules.

Paul

 

[Brian V]

Thank you everyone. Pairs it is!

I suspected that the hardware can handle more than 4Gb and only one part
can't or XP can't.

So 64-bit can handle more RAM. Where can I find out what OS or hardware can
handle what? Just contact the manufacture? Anyone have a site they can pass
along?

Music editing, mastering and mixdown take a lot out on your system. Large
files (long song length) are another thing.

Video: I need the best quality I can get. Large file size and another set of
process to let the computer go through.

I have looked at some of the info I'm getting from my computer and yeah, the
video card likes to suck a lot out. I'm sure I can adjust it, but I need more
RAM anyways. I made adjustment for the visuals and everything looks a lot
better, but the system is being strained. I had to turn it down a notch.

 

[Brian V]

Again thank you. I posted one question in the hardware section, sent it, and
I got sent back here. This should be there. But thanks anyways.

 

[Brian V]

Also:

What is BIOS. I'v read some stuff about flashing it could wipe out your
system and is not recommended or supported by the manufactures or web-sites I
read about it. I havn't yet found anything explaining it or if I can
update/change mine (it goes back to flashing it or warnings that the system
will be unstable).

 

[thanatoid]

=?Utf-8?B?QnJpYW4gVg==?= <[email protected]>
wrote in

Also:

What is BIOS.

What is Wikipedia? What is Google?

I'v read some stuff about flashing it could
wipe out your system and is not recommended or supported by
the manufactures or web-sites I read about it. I havn't yet
found anything explaining it or if I can update/change mine
(it goes back to flashing it or warnings that the system
will be unstable).

<SNIP>

No one needs more than 4 GB of RAM.

And it is almost never necessary to flash a BIOS. If it works,
leave it alone. I've flashed BIOS's several time and always went
back to the original one that came with the MB.

 

[Peter Foldes]

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx

 

[Doum]

Thank you everyone. Pairs it is!

I suspected that the hardware can handle more than 4Gb and only one
part can't or XP can't.

So 64-bit can handle more RAM. Where can I find out what OS or
hardware can handle what? Just contact the manufacture? Anyone have a
site they can pass along?

Every 64 bits OS can handle more RAM, it's mathematical.

The drawback could be on the hardware drivers side. I suspect that Vista
and Seven are more supported than XP by hardware manufacturers on the 64
bits side and Vista drivers could very well work with Seven. I've seen one
case that the driver installer needed to be run in compatibility mode
(Vista) in Windows7 but once it was installed, the driver itself worked in
Seven.

And as far as Seven is concerned, the 64 bits installation disk is included
in the retail packages (Full or Upgrade), I don't know about Vista and for
XP you have to buy a new OS, if you can find it.

HTH

 

[Daave]

Also:

What is BIOS.

Brian, *please* at least *try* to use Google before you post a question
like this. See:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q="what+is+bios"&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10

This top hit is from Indiana University:

http://kb.iu.edu/data/ahtz.html

If you are a visual learner:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pc+bios&search_type=&aq=f

And finally, please start learning to fish. Once you get the hang of it,
you can start helping others:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ffectively&aq=1&oq=how+to+use+a+search&aqi=g3

http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=134479

http://www.googleguide.com/about/

 

[Shenan Stanley]

<snipped>

No one needs more than 4 GB of RAM.

And it is almost never necessary to flash a BIOS. If it works,
leave it alone. I've flashed BIOS's several time and always went
back to the original one that came with the MB.

That is an incorrect sweeping statement.

I need more than 4GB of RAM. I use several virtual machines on my system -
all the time. As soon as I boot each - 2GB gets used by each. So I have
Windows 7 (2GB used by nature of the system and what is running I need) and
I have Windows XP and Windows Vista running in two different VMs (that's 2GB
each - 4GB total, although they may not use the full 2GB) and I do edit
video and audio I record for various reasons (help videos, videos from
TV/camcorder/etc.) I may even occassionally bring up one or more additional
VMs. There are people who can and do 'use' 4+GB memory every day.

As for flashing the BIOS - there are times it is necessary - like when the
manufacturer corrects a problem, adds a feature you need, etc. True
enough - most people will not need to do this (home users.)

And on the server side - way more. ;-)

 

[Paul]

Also:

What is BIOS. I'v read some stuff about flashing it could wipe out your
system and is not recommended or supported by the manufactures or web-sites I
read about it. I havn't yet found anything explaining it or if I can
update/change mine (it goes back to flashing it or warnings that the system
will be unstable).

The BIOS is typically stored in a Flash memory chip. The BIOS is the code
which starts the computer when you turn on the power. The processor, when
it fetches its very first instruction, gets the instruction from the
BIOS flash chip.

In this sample picture, the BIOS chip sits in a socket. This chip can be pulled
out in an emergency and replaced.

http://www.hermann-uwe.de/files/images/bios_chip_plcc_socket.jpg

This BIOS chip, on the other hand, is soldered right to the motherboard.
If the BIOS chip flash upgrade failed, you'd have a devil of a time
installing another chip from somewhere with valid code stored in it.
You would have to be good with a soldering iron (or a hot air
soldering rework station with the appropriate adapter).

http://www.badflash.com/images/plcc.jpg

So before you start flashing a BIOS, consider whether the BIOS chip can be
pulled.

If you "brick" a computer (BIOS flash update goes bad and the computer will
no longer POST or boot), companies like this one can reprogram a chip for you.
You can either send them the original chip (pulled from its socket), or
purchase a new blank chip from them. And then they program the chip with the
BIOS file you tell them to use. Small companies like this exist around the
world, and you may get faster transport of a new flash chip, from a
company which is physically nearer to you. It could be, that someone
in a local computer store, has a flash programmer, and could also handle
the job.

http://www.badflash.com/findbios.htm

Flash chips come in at least three types. DIP (dual inline) chips, relatively
large chips, were used say 10 years ago. The PLCC square chips (the ones in the
sample photos), might be 5 years old. There are now some small 8 pin DIP chips,
with serial interfaces, that have taken the place of the PLCC chip. I'm guessing
your motherboard is a PLCC, which is why I've provided PLCC photos.

As long as you're prepared for a "BIOS flashing accident", and have a
recovery plan in place, there is nothing to fear.

If you were extra fearful, you could contact badflash.com ahead of time.
Buy a BIOS chip with the new BIOS file flashed in it. Pull the old chip,
install the new chip. By doing that, no flashing software would be
used on your computer at all. So that is the procedure a paranoid person
might use.

For those people who flash frequently, or hack BIOS for fun, they use
devices like this. The BIOS Savior. The idea here, is this product
adds a second flash chip to the computer, and you also get a switch,
to select one flash chip or the other. By using one of these, there
is less risk of ending up with no working flash image at all.
Unfortunately, this company has not created new versions as time
has passed (they don't offer a dual chip solution for 8 pin DIP).
But if your computer used one of their existing products, this
is yet another way to prepare for the worst.

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior.html

To pull a PLCC square BIOS chip, out of its brown socket, there
is this tool. It pulls on the corners of the chip, and has hooks
that fit underneath the corners of the chip. The socket has room
for the tip of this tool, to fit into the corners. I never had
a good one of these in the lab, and pulled a hundred of those
chips out of their sockets, using something shaped like an awl.
Using a tool like this is nice, if you have one. I could never
be bothered.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619

*******

In terms of safe BIOS flashing.

1) The best tools would run from a DOS floppy. There are flash
tools that run in Windows, but they have greater odds of getting
stuck half way through a flash update.

2) The flash tool for the BIOS, should offer an option to do a backup
of the original BIOS image. I won't go forward with a flash update,
unless I have the backup in hand. If the flash tool reports the
BIOS flash failed, I immediately try to burn the original image
into the BIOS chip.

3) Don't restart the computer, unless the flash tool reports it
completed the job. If there was a visual glitch during the programming
(percent complete jumped from 20% to 100% instantly), that is
hinting the job is screwed up, and you should revert to your
backup.

Even with the most care and attention to details, you can brick a
system. If you've done your homework though, the most damage
might be some money sent off to badflash.com or equivalent.

You can still flash upgrade a motherboard that has the chip
soldered to the motherboard. People do it all the time. But
don't expect a cheap repair, if there is trouble.

Paul

 

[Tim Slattery]

Thank you everyone. Pairs it is!

I suspected that the hardware can handle more than 4Gb and only one part
can't or XP can't.

So 64-bit can handle more RAM. Where can I find out what OS or hardware can
handle what? Just contact the manufacture? Anyone have a site they can pass
along?

Nearly all hardware sold today (AFAIK) is 64-bits. XP has a 64-bit
version, but it's OEM only. Vista and Win7 both have 32- and 64-bit
editions of all versions.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "Shenan Stanley" <[email protected]>

| <snipped>


| That is an incorrect sweeping statement.

| I need more than 4GB of RAM. I use several virtual machines on my system -
| all the time. As soon as I boot each - 2GB gets used by each. So I have
| Windows 7 (2GB used by nature of the system and what is running I need) and
| I have Windows XP and Windows Vista running in two different VMs (that's 2GB
| each - 4GB total, although they may not use the full 2GB) and I do edit
| video and audio I record for various reasons (help videos, videos from
| TV/camcorder/etc.) I may even occassionally bring up one or more additional
| VMs. There are people who can and do 'use' 4+GB memory every day.

| As for flashing the BIOS - there are times it is necessary - like when the
| manufacturer corrects a problem, adds a feature you need, etc. True
| enough - most people will not need to do this (home users.)

| And on the server side - way more. ;-)

| --
| Shenan Stanley
| MS-MVP

Right. In my office situation we *need* the RAM with the following requirements; anti
virus software, Smart Card middleware, HIPS and Certificate verification & revocation
software.

 

[thanatoid]

<snipped>


That is an incorrect sweeping statement.

If you are referring to the first sentence, put the reply where
it belongs. And if you are referring to what you posted directly
under, no, it is a 100% correct statement describing my
experience. You may not agree with it because you are demented,
but that does not make it "incorrect".

I need more than 4GB of RAM. I use several virtual
machines on my system - all the time.

I already pointed out you are demented. May I add you need a
life.

As soon as I boot
each - 2GB gets used by each. So I have Windows 7 (2GB
used by nature of the system and what is running I need)
and I have Windows XP and Windows Vista running in two
different VMs (that's 2GB each - 4GB total, although they
may not use the full 2GB) and I do edit video and audio I
record for various reasons (help videos, videos from
TV/camcorder/etc.) I may even occassionally bring up one
or more additional VMs.

Your work must be of the highest quality, conceptually and
technically. Not to mention you NEVER crash, right?

There are people who can and do
'use' 4+GB memory every day.

People do all sorts of things. That does not make them sane or
right.

<SNIP>

 

[thanatoid]

Right. In my office situation we *need* the RAM with the
following requirements; anti virus software, Smart Card
middleware, HIPS and Certificate verification & revocation
software.

And that requires 4GB of RAM per machine? I weep for your tech
support dept.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "thanatoid" <[email protected]>

|

| And that requires 4GB of RAM per machine? I weep for your tech
| support dept.

Yes. Especially since we *must* move to Vista Enterprise.

In fact, we just spent $17,000 USD upgrading RAM from 2GB to 4GB on all our platforms.
Users noted quite and improvement. Expaecially those who open multiple Outlook, Excel
and/or Powerpoint windows simultaneously.