SMART and Offline Seek Performance attribute


B

Bob

I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.

My questions/concerns are:

1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?

TIA!
Bob
 
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A

Arno Wagner

Previously Bob said:
I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.
My questions/concerns are:
1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
The warning should be taken very seriously. It might be some
other attribute that is the problem, not the offline seek
performance.

Can you post the complete set of smart attributes here?

Arno
 
R

Rod Speed

Bob said:
I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.

My questions/concerns are:

1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the
fact that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
I'd check the actual SMART values using Everest from
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
or if that doesnt show the smart data, the smartctl from
the knoppix bootable CD.

Offline just means tests the drive does by itself,
as opposed to what its told to do by a diagnostic.

Seek performance is how quickly the drive can move from track to track.
If the seek performance is getting worse, that can indeed be an indication
that the drive is failing, with the drive not being able to read the new track
data properly as quickly as it used to and that may well indicate a problem.

Certainly those Maxtors dont look good in the storagereview reliability
stats, so I would certainly backup what you'll slash your wrists if you
lose even if you have to run out and buy a DVD or CD burner to do that.
 
B

Bob

:> I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
:> Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
:> days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
:> ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
:> is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
:> HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
:> attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
:> popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
:> getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.
:
:> My questions/concerns are:
:
:> 1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
:> 2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
:> that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
:
:The warning should be taken very seriously. It might be some
:blush:ther attribute that is the problem, not the offline seek
:performance.
:
:Can you post the complete set of smart attributes here?

Sure thing...here they are as taken from Everest v2.20.405 (not sure how this
might wrap in your news reader). Note the "vendor specified" attributes. D1 is the Offline Seek
Performance attribute which I believe is triggering the warning.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!


[ Maxtor 6Y160P0 (Y43H7T4E) ]

03 Spin Up Time 63 202 202 7960 OK: Value is normal
04 Start/Stop Count 0 253 253 38 OK: Always passing
05 Reallocated Sector Count 63 253 253 1 OK: Value is normal
06 Read Channel Margin 100 253 253 0 OK: Value is normal
07 Seek Error Rate 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
08 Seek Time Performance 187 252 250 50574 OK: Value is normal
09 Power-On Time Count 0 250 250 64691 OK: Always passing
0A Spin Retry Count 157 253 252 0 OK: Value is normal
0B Calibration Retry Count 223 253 252 0 OK: Value is normal
0C Power Cycle Count 0 251 251 1070 OK: Always passing
C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
C2 Temperature 0 253 253 22 OK: Always passing
C3 Hardware ECC Recovered 0 253 252 7823 OK: Always passing
C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 253 253 1 OK: Always passing
C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 252 252 1 OK: Always passing
C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 199 199 0 OK: Always passing
C8 Write Error Rate 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
C9 <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 1 OK: Always passing
CA <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
CB <vendor-specific> 180 253 252 1 OK: Value is normal
CC <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
CD <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
CF <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
D0 <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
D1 <vendor-specific> 0 146 146 0 OK: Always passing
63 <vendor-specific> 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
64 <vendor-specific> 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
65 <vendor-specific> 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
 
A

Arno Wagner

Previously Bob said:
:> I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
:> Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
:> days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
:> ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
:> is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
:> HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
:> attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
:> popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
:> getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.
:
:> My questions/concerns are:
:
:> 1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
:> 2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
:> that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
:
:The warning should be taken very seriously. It might be some
:blush:ther attribute that is the problem, not the offline seek
:performance.
:
:Can you post the complete set of smart attributes here?
Sure thing...here they are as taken from Everest v2.20.405 (not sure how this
might wrap in your news reader). Note the "vendor specified" attributes. D1 is the Offline Seek
Performance attribute which I believe is triggering the warning.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Frankly I do not see a problem here. The single reallocated sector
is no reason for concern. The spin-up time might be an issue, maybe
a PSU with too low 12V line. D1 also seems unproblematic, but could be
related to a too low or weak 12V line from the PSU as well (seeks
failing because the power gives way a little).

Arno

[ Maxtor 6Y160P0 (Y43H7T4E) ]
 
B

Bob

:> In article <42595oF1gsabjU1@individual.net>,
:> :> I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
:> :> Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
:> :> days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
:> :> ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
:> :> is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
:> :> HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
:> :> attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
:> :> popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
:> :> getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.
:> :
:> :> My questions/concerns are:
:> :
:> :> 1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
:> :> 2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
:> :> that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
:> :
:> :The warning should be taken very seriously. It might be some
:> :blush:ther attribute that is the problem, not the offline seek
:> :performance.
:> :
:> :Can you post the complete set of smart attributes here?
:
:> Sure thing...here they are as taken from Everest v2.20.405 (not sure how this
:> might wrap in your news reader). Note the "vendor specified" attributes. D1 is the Offline Seek
:> Performance attribute which I believe is triggering the warning.
:
:> Any input would be greatly appreciated!
:
:
:Frankly I do not see a problem here. The single reallocated sector
:is no reason for concern. The spin-up time might be an issue, maybe
:a PSU with too low 12V line. D1 also seems unproblematic, but could be
:related to a too low or weak 12V line from the PSU as well (seeks
:failing because the power gives way a little).
:
:Arno

Thanks. Can you give me a brief explanation of how these values are
interpeted. For example, what makes you say the spin up time value
might be an issue?

Thanks again.

Bob

:
:
:> [ Maxtor 6Y160P0 (Y43H7T4E) ]
:
:> 03 Spin Up Time 63 202 202 7960 OK: Value is normal
:> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 253 253 38 OK: Always passing
:> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 63 253 253 1 OK: Value is normal
:> 06 Read Channel Margin 100 253 253 0 OK: Value is normal
:> 07 Seek Error Rate 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> 08 Seek Time Performance 187 252 250 50574 OK: Value is normal
:> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 250 250 64691 OK: Always passing
:> 0A Spin Retry Count 157 253 252 0 OK: Value is normal
:> 0B Calibration Retry Count 223 253 252 0 OK: Value is normal
:> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 251 251 1070 OK: Always passing
:> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
:> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
:> C2 Temperature 0 253 253 22 OK: Always passing
:> C3 Hardware ECC Recovered 0 253 252 7823 OK: Always passing
:> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
:> C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 253 253 1 OK: Always passing
:> C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 252 252 1 OK: Always passing
:> C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 199 199 0 OK: Always passing
:> C8 Write Error Rate 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> C9 <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 1 OK: Always passing
:> CA <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> CB <vendor-specific> 180 253 252 1 OK: Value is normal
:> CC <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> CD <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> CF <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> D0 <vendor-specific> 0 253 252 0 OK: Always passing
:> D1 <vendor-specific> 0 146 146 0 OK: Always passing
:> 63 <vendor-specific> 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
:> 64 <vendor-specific> 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
:> 65 <vendor-specific> 0 253 253 0 OK: Always passing
 
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G

Guest

SMART values you see are non-standard. The
only SMART that is standard nowadays is the
fail/not fail status. Anything else could
mean something completely different, or mean
nothing at all. I'd say use them for enter-
tainment use only, especially things that you
can't put a one-to-one mapping on, say, like a
spinup time of "200". Temperature, like say
"34", would be something you could understand,
and conclude, yes, my HD is at (34+34)-10%+32=90
degrees. (I have a WD from 2002 that doesn't do
temperature, yet do have older disks that do.)
Power-on hours, same story, but when you get to
those goofy things where "100" supposedly means
normal, and you see "200", you may as well forget
about getting any useful meaning out of that --
non-standard. They all are except the new-ish
fail/not fail status. Others values/attributes
are, if they are, kept around for historical
reasons (drive temp being a useful thing to know,
for example). If you doubt this, find an ISO (or
whatever) standard where these values are
standardized, or frankly, and pub., not hobbled
together by the clueless, that has anything done
in the last few years.

BN- [Fri, 6 Jan 2006 01:29:42 +0000 (UTC)]:
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Talk to the company that made your disk drive.
It may have a disk tool you can use to check
the status, and get meaningful results. Then
again, you may get old software that isn't
worth the bits that carry it.
 
A

Arno Wagner

Previously Bob said:
:> In article <42595oF1gsabjU1@individual.net>,
:> :> I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
:> :> Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
:> :> days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
:> :> ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
:> :> is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
:> :> HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
:> :> attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
:> :> popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
:> :> getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.
:> :
:> :> My questions/concerns are:
:> :
:> :> 1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
:> :> 2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
:> :> that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
:> :
:> :The warning should be taken very seriously. It might be some
:> :blush:ther attribute that is the problem, not the offline seek
:> :performance.
:> :
:> :Can you post the complete set of smart attributes here?
:
:> Sure thing...here they are as taken from Everest v2.20.405 (not sure how this
:> might wrap in your news reader). Note the "vendor specified" attributes. D1 is the Offline Seek
:> Performance attribute which I believe is triggering the warning.
:
:> Any input would be greatly appreciated!
:
:
:Frankly I do not see a problem here. The single reallocated sector
:is no reason for concern. The spin-up time might be an issue, maybe
:a PSU with too low 12V line. D1 also seems unproblematic, but could be
:related to a too low or weak 12V line from the PSU as well (seeks
:failing because the power gives way a little).
:
:Arno
Thanks. Can you give me a brief explanation of how these values are
interpeted. For example, what makes you say the spin up time value
might be an issue?
Gut-feeling, reallty. I have a lot of disks running and developed some
intuition. Good values are either 255 (or close) or 100 (or slightly
below) if most values are 100 or below, then 100 is the upper value.
For you most values are 255 or below, so that is the upper value.
Unfortunately there are mixed ones, for example I have a
ST380021A that has 100 as upper value for some attributes and 200
for one value.

Any value any value significantly lower than the maximum (say 20-50
lower) might be an issue. The Spin_Up_Time of 202 is not necessarily a
problem. I just checked 23 Maxtor disks I have runing without
proiblems, they have values in the range from 175-252 in this
attribute, so this is very likely not a problem.

It is really a judgement call, unfortunately, unless you get one
attribute not with an "OK" status. No idea why your software predicts
a problem. Your values look pretty much like the ones on my
Maxtor disks.

Arno
 
B

Bob

:> In article <426vs2F1h4p2kU1@individual.net>,
:> :> In article <42595oF1gsabjU1@individual.net>,
:> :> :> I recently installed a SMART monitoring program called Hard Drive
:> :> :> Inspector (http://www.altrixsoft.com/en/hddinsp/) and for the past few
:> :> :> days it has been telling me about an iminent failure of a Maxtor 160GB
:> :> :> ATA disk installed in my PC. The only SMART attribute I can see that
:> :> :> is low is the Offline Seek Performance...it's value is 146 (or 73%).
:> :> :> HD Inspector includes a graph showing you history values of SMART
:> :> :> attributes and during the past few days since the alert has been
:> :> :> popping up, the value has stayed at 146 so it does not seem to be
:> :> :> getting worse. The lower threshold is much lower than 146.
:> :> :
:> :> :> My questions/concerns are:
:> :> :
:> :> :> 1) What exactly is Offline Seek Performance?
:> :> :> 2) Is this something I need to be overly concerned about given the fact
:> :> :> that I am still well above the threshold for this attribute?
:> :> :
:> :> :The warning should be taken very seriously. It might be some
:> :> :blush:ther attribute that is the problem, not the offline seek
:> :> :performance.
:> :> :
:> :> :Can you post the complete set of smart attributes here?
:> :
:> :> Sure thing...here they are as taken from Everest v2.20.405 (not sure how this
:> :> might wrap in your news reader). Note the "vendor specified" attributes. D1 is the
:Offline Seek
:> :> Performance attribute which I believe is triggering the warning.
:> :
:> :> Any input would be greatly appreciated!
:> :
:> :
:> :Frankly I do not see a problem here. The single reallocated sector
:> :is no reason for concern. The spin-up time might be an issue, maybe
:> :a PSU with too low 12V line. D1 also seems unproblematic, but could be
:> :related to a too low or weak 12V line from the PSU as well (seeks
:> :failing because the power gives way a little).
:> :
:> :Arno
:
:> Thanks. Can you give me a brief explanation of how these values are
:> interpeted. For example, what makes you say the spin up time value
:> might be an issue?
:
:Gut-feeling, reallty. I have a lot of disks running and developed some
:intuition. Good values are either 255 (or close) or 100 (or slightly
:below) if most values are 100 or below, then 100 is the upper value.
:For you most values are 255 or below, so that is the upper value.
:Unfortunately there are mixed ones, for example I have a
:ST380021A that has 100 as upper value for some attributes and 200
:for one value.
:
:Any value any value significantly lower than the maximum (say 20-50
:lower) might be an issue. The Spin_Up_Time of 202 is not necessarily a
:problem. I just checked 23 Maxtor disks I have runing without
:proiblems, they have values in the range from 175-252 in this
:attribute, so this is very likely not a problem.
:
:It is really a judgement call, unfortunately, unless you get one
:attribute not with an "OK" status. No idea why your software predicts
:a problem. Your values look pretty much like the ones on my
:Maxtor disks.
:
:Arno

Arno, thanks very much...I greatly appreciate you taking the time to
explain this, check your disks, etc. for me. I installed HD Inspector
(the program giving me the warning) because I had another disk that was
truly failing, which has since been replaced. I think I will uninstall
HD Inspector (it's limited time shareware anyways) and either find
another SMART monitoring program or go back to the waythings were rpre
HD inspector, which was for me to check Everest's SMART values from
time to time.

Bob
 
A

Arno Wagner

Previously Bob said:
:> In article <426vs2F1h4p2kU1@individual.net>, [...]
:> Thanks. Can you give me a brief explanation of how these values are
:> interpeted. For example, what makes you say the spin up time value
:> might be an issue?
:
:Gut-feeling, reallty. I have a lot of disks running and developed some
:intuition. Good values are either 255 (or close) or 100 (or slightly
:below) if most values are 100 or below, then 100 is the upper value.
:For you most values are 255 or below, so that is the upper value.
:Unfortunately there are mixed ones, for example I have a
:ST380021A that has 100 as upper value for some attributes and 200
:for one value.
:
:Any value any value significantly lower than the maximum (say 20-50
:lower) might be an issue. The Spin_Up_Time of 202 is not necessarily a
:problem. I just checked 23 Maxtor disks I have runing without
:proiblems, they have values in the range from 175-252 in this
:attribute, so this is very likely not a problem.
:
:It is really a judgement call, unfortunately, unless you get one
:attribute not with an "OK" status. No idea why your software predicts
:a problem. Your values look pretty much like the ones on my
:Maxtor disks.
:
:Arno
Arno, thanks very much...I greatly appreciate you taking the time to
explain this, check your disks, etc. for me.
You are welcome.
I installed HD Inspector
(the program giving me the warning) because I had another disk that was
truly failing, which has since been replaced. I think I will uninstall
HD Inspector (it's limited time shareware anyways) and either find
another SMART monitoring program or go back to the waythings were rpre
HD inspector, which was for me to check Everest's SMART values from
time to time.
Sounds reasonable to me. A tool that gives you a critical alert
but fails to explain what the problem is is next to unusable.

Arno
 
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F

Folkert Rienstra

Bob said:
Sure thing...here they are as taken from Everest v2.20.405
(not sure how this might wrap in your news reader).
As wrapped as you yourself wrap it to be, when sending.
Which, in your case, is : not.
So likely you setup your newsclient properly.
Note the "vendor specified" attributes. D1 is the Offline Seek
Performance attribute which I believe is triggering the warning.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!
[snip]
 

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