Slightly OT: USB2 card "almost" works

[Mike S.]

We recently replaced my elderly mom's PC, and I took her old HP Pavilion
machine home with the intent of erasing personal content from its hard
drive to throw out. It's a Celeron 500 machine with 192 MB of RAM and a 10
GB hard drive.

Having done so, I couldn't resist the temptation to "do something" with
this PC rather than throw it away, so I updated the BIOS and installed
Windows 2000. It only required a driver download for the internal modem;
otherwise it's quite happy with the PC's standard equipment.

Since I have some USB 2.0 cards on the shelf, that have functioned OK in
other machines, I decided to try a quick "no-cost" upgrade. Major pain
with this machine as it is not "really" designed to be upgraded. The slot
covers are welded in place, and to add a card you literally have to break
metal to free the slot opening.

The long and short of it: I've tried both a Belkin and a no-name flea
market USB2 card, using both the W2K native USB2 drivers and the
third-party Orange Micro drivers shipped with the cards. The USB2 ports
install without problem, device manager shows them properly identified and
with no problems or conflicts. The problem: peripherals don't quite work.

For instance, if I connect a CDR drive, it is detected and a drive letter
is added. However, any attempts to use the drive to read a known-good CD
aborts with "incorrect function". If I install a WiFi adaptor, it is
recognized and sees the router but will not pass data or obtain an IP
address. These peripherals function PERFECTLY (though more slowly) on the
computer's USB 1.1 ports on the motherboard.

I've tried swapping cards, drivers, and slots. No joy. Before I resign
myself to the possibility that this machine simply isn't compatible with
USB2, is there anythinng I've missed?

 

[Eric Gisin]

A USB2 card should work in any Pentium II/III, as they are PCI 2.1+.

I would suspect an incompatibility with USB2 and system chipsets,
or Windows USB driver mangling. Delete the devices and reboot.

What do you means about "slot covers welded in place"?
They generally have to be broken off, screw off type are old.

 

[Mike S.]

A USB2 card should work in any Pentium II/III, as they are PCI 2.1+.

I would suspect an incompatibility with USB2 and system chipsets,
or Windows USB driver mangling. Delete the devices and reboot.

Have done that more times than I can count ... with both W2KSP4 native
drivers and the Orange Micro drivers shipped with the cards.

Chipset compatibility seems possible; IIRC though the Cognac system board
uses a widely-used Intel chipset.

What do you means about "slot covers welded in place"?
They generally have to be broken off, screw off type are old.

Yes, they need to be broken off; there is one thin metal attachment on
each edge that holds the cover to the frame.

 

[Rod Speed]

Have done that more times than I can count ... with both W2KSP4 native
drivers and the Orange Micro drivers shipped with the cards.

Chipset compatibility seems possible; IIRC though the Cognac system
board uses a widely-used Intel chipset.

Yes, they need to be broken off; there is one thin metal
attachment on each edge that holds the cover to the frame.

Thats almost universal now with most cases, even the cheapest generic cases.

 

[Michael Brown]

Not sure what this has to do with storage, but anyhow ...

We recently replaced my elderly mom's PC, and I took her old HP
Pavilion machine home with the intent of erasing personal content
from its hard drive to throw out. It's a Celeron 500 machine with 192
MB of RAM and a 10 GB hard drive. [...]
The long and short of it: I've tried both a Belkin and a no-name flea
market USB2 card, using both the W2K native USB2 drivers and the
third-party Orange Micro drivers shipped with the cards. The USB2
ports install without problem, device manager shows them properly
identified and with no problems or conflicts. The problem:
peripherals don't quite work.

For instance, if I connect a CDR drive, it is detected and a drive
letter is added. However, any attempts to use the drive to read a
known-good CD aborts with "incorrect function". If I install a WiFi
adaptor, it is recognized and sees the router but will not pass data
or obtain an IP address. These peripherals function PERFECTLY (though
more slowly) on the computer's USB 1.1 ports on the motherboard.

I've tried swapping cards, drivers, and slots. No joy. Before I resign
myself to the possibility that this machine simply isn't compatible
with USB2, is there anythinng I've missed?

Older systems (P2/P3 era) seem to be quite fickle when it comes to USB 2.0
cards. In most cases that I've dealt with, a particular board will work
properly with either VIA or NEC chipset cards, but rarely both. I haven't
tried the ALi based cards, so don't know where they fit in. The problems you
are seeing are pretty much those that you see with the "wrong" chipset. See
if you can get hold of a card with a different chipset if you haven't
already tried both NEC and VIA based cards.

 

[Mike S.]

Not sure what this has to do with storage, but anyhow ...

We recently replaced my elderly mom's PC, and I took her old HP
Pavilion machine home with the intent of erasing personal content
from its hard drive to throw out. It's a Celeron 500 machine with 192
MB of RAM and a 10 GB hard drive. [...]
The long and short of it: I've tried both a Belkin and a no-name flea
market USB2 card, using both the W2K native USB2 drivers and the
third-party Orange Micro drivers shipped with the cards. The USB2
ports install without problem, device manager shows them properly
identified and with no problems or conflicts. The problem:
peripherals don't quite work.

For instance, if I connect a CDR drive, it is detected and a drive
letter is added. However, any attempts to use the drive to read a
known-good CD aborts with "incorrect function". If I install a WiFi
adaptor, it is recognized and sees the router but will not pass data
or obtain an IP address. These peripherals function PERFECTLY (though
more slowly) on the computer's USB 1.1 ports on the motherboard.

I've tried swapping cards, drivers, and slots. No joy. Before I resign
myself to the possibility that this machine simply isn't compatible
with USB2, is there anythinng I've missed?

Older systems (P2/P3 era) seem to be quite fickle when it comes to USB 2.0
cards. In most cases that I've dealt with, a particular board will work
properly with either VIA or NEC chipset cards, but rarely both. I haven't
tried the ALi based cards, so don't know where they fit in. The problems you
are seeing are pretty much those that you see with the "wrong" chipset. See
if you can get hold of a card with a different chipset if you haven't
already tried both NEC and VIA based cards.

Thanks for the insight. Both cards I'm using have the NEC chipset, so that
might explain the fact that they both have exactly the same problem. I
wasn't looking to invest money in this; they were on the shelf. But if I
see a cheap VIA card at the next flea market, I might give it a try just
for the challenge.

 

[Eric Gisin]

Would be interesting to see a table of usb2 vs system chipset compatibility.

Thanks for the insight. Both cards I'm using have the NEC chipset, so that
might explain the fact that they both have exactly the same problem. I
wasn't looking to invest money in this; they were on the shelf. But if I
see a cheap VIA card at the next flea market, I might give it a try just
for the challenge.

I can confirm the VIA USB2 chips work on Intel 81X chipsets.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Older systems (P2/P3 era) seem to be quite fickle when it
comes to USB 2.0 cards. In most cases that I've dealt with,
a particular board will work properly with either VIA or NEC
chipset cards, but rarely both.

I've never known of a mobo that worked with VIA-based USB 2.0 cards but
not with NEC cards because the latter seem to be the most compatible
and least troublesome of them all, and I've never had problems getting
one to work, even with ancient Socket 7 and Slot 1 mobos.

My NEC cards have also worked at full speed with every USB device I've
tried, but my VIA VT6202 type cards didn't recognize a Canon scanner
and an old digital camera, both USB 1.1 devices. OTOH my VIA VT6212
cards have worked fine, and XbitLabs.com said that this chip's USB 2.0
transfers were significantly faster.

I haven't tried the ALi based cards,

Apparently they're the worst, according to www.usbman.com and
www.everythingusb.com.

 

[Andy Lee]

I've never known of a mobo that worked with VIA-based USB 2.0 cards but
not with NEC cards because the latter seem to be the most compatible
and least troublesome of them all, and I've never had problems getting
one to work, even with ancient Socket 7 and Slot 1 mobos.

My NEC cards have also worked at full speed with every USB device I've
tried, but my VIA VT6202 type cards didn't recognize a Canon scanner
and an old digital camera, both USB 1.1 devices. OTOH my VIA VT6212
cards have worked fine, and XbitLabs.com said that this chip's USB 2.0
transfers were significantly faster.


Apparently they're the worst, according to www.usbman.com and
www.everythingusb.com.

I'll go along with that my brother had one of those Ali cards total
pain in the arse swapped for a Trust one with a VIA chipset and that
worked OK but only after a driver update from the Trust website. The
original driver worked fine using an external Iomega DVD writer so
long as you only wanted to READ disks. The updated one actually then
allowed you to WRITE disks.

 

[CWatters]

We recently replaced my elderly mom's PC, and I took her old HP Pavilion
machine home with the intent of erasing personal content from its hard
drive to throw out. It's a Celeron 500 machine with 192 MB of RAM and a 10
GB hard drive.

Having done so, I couldn't resist the temptation to "do something" with
this PC rather than throw it away, so I updated the BIOS and installed
Windows 2000

You have Win2000 service pack 4 right?.....

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/bus/USB/USB2support.mspx

 

[Mike S.]

You have Win2000 service pack 4 right?.....

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/bus/USB/USB2support.mspx

Of course. How else could I be installing the native Microsoft USB2
drivers?

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I'll go along with that my brother had one of those Ali cards total
pain in the arse swapped for a Trust one with a VIA chipset and that
worked OK but only after a driver update from the Trust website. The
original driver worked fine using an external Iomega DVD writer so
long as you only wanted to READ disks. The updated one actually then
allowed you to WRITE disks.

Good old "trustworthy" VIA. When I asked them for technical
information about their VT6202 USB 2.0 chip, they told me that I'd
first prove that I was a system designer and submit a signed
nondisclosure form. OTOH NEC provides all the technical data for its
USB chips online to everybody, including a schematic for a PCI USB card.