Service Pack 3 Problems: Do I need it?

[Katie]

DI installed SP3 last week on my home computer. I began having problems: slow
reaction times, programs not loading when I click, even little notepad
documents not loading. Then when I tried to run NAV 2008 full system scan,
the computer started turning off & rebooting. Happened 4 - 5 times over the
course of the day. I uninstalled & reinstalled NAV, tried a Restore, but the
computer still crashed again (not when running a scan.) SO... I uninstalled
the Service Pack 3. I had read about other people having problems with it.

MY QUESTION: Do I need SP3? Will other Microsoft security updates do the job
for me? I've turned off Automatic Updates until I can figure this out,
because I don't want SP3 until I know it won't cause so many problems.

 

[JS]

Problems occur after installing Windows XP Service Pack 3 or
Windows Vista Service Pack 1 with a Norton 2008 product installed:
Info and Fix:
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/norton2008.nsf/docid/2008051623552079

I would hold off for a while (2 or 3 months) until the dust settles.

JS

 

[Big_Al]

DI installed SP3 last week on my home computer. I began having problems: slow
reaction times, programs not loading when I click, even little notepad
documents not loading. Then when I tried to run NAV 2008 full system scan,
the computer started turning off & rebooting. Happened 4 - 5 times over the
course of the day. I uninstalled & reinstalled NAV, tried a Restore, but the
computer still crashed again (not when running a scan.) SO... I uninstalled
the Service Pack 3. I had read about other people having problems with it.

MY QUESTION: Do I need SP3? Will other Microsoft security updates do the job
for me? I've turned off Automatic Updates until I can figure this out,
because I don't want SP3 until I know it won't cause so many problems.

I have it on my laptop, but have not done it to my desktop.
I still seem to get updates on both.

Do you need it? Hard to say. It does supply you with some hot fixes
and security updates not available to SP2 users. I'm not sure the SP3
is your problem. You read a lot of problems here on the NG's but
that's the reason for these NG's, complaints. So you rarely see
successes. But I've seen comments from people that they have upgraded
20-25 pc's in classrooms and had no issues, or maybe 1 out of the lot.

AV software has been attributed to SP3 issues. I don't see any issues
with it. If you had issues, I'd hold off.

 

[Katie]

Well, you know, I'm beginning to wonder about SP3, because after I
uninstalled it, and tried to run a spy program (AdAware), the whole computer
crashed again. My theory now is that something extremely weird happened to
the computer during the SP3 episode that has seriously messed up my antivirus
& spyware programs. Norton isn't much help at all, either. If anybody has
similar experiences, I'd be interested to know.

 

[JS]

Did you try using a Restore Point created just prior to installing SP3?

JS

 

[Herb]

My best advice is to keep as far away from SP3 as you can. I installed it on
my desktop (a XP Pro) and the next day it started recycling and other weird
things. When I tried to fix it, it went from bad to worse and then I could
no longer do anything with it. I took it to a computer repair and he gave up
so it cost me a computer, I had to buy a new machine. I built that computer
and in 4 years had never had a problem. I did not have Norton. I use AVG. I
run a Google search and found many people have had this problem. Microsoft
blames OEM's and OEM's blame Microsoft, you know the drill.

 

[Daave]

My best advice is to keep as far away from SP3 as you can. I
installed it on my desktop (a XP Pro) and the next day it started
recycling and other weird things. When I tried to fix it, it went
from bad to worse and then I could no longer do anything with it. I
took it to a computer repair and he gave up so it cost me a computer,
I had to buy a new machine.

Now, that's what I call drastic!

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Now, that's what I call drastic!

Absolutely! There's no way a software upgrade can cause the computer
to be unrepairable. Absolute worst case, a reinstallation of Windows
might be required. This says more about the poor service Herb got from
the Computer Repair company he took it to than about SP3.

In fact, SP3 works fine. It installed on my own two computers that run
XP without a problem, the computers of many other people I know
without a problem, and on the computers of many thousands, if not
millions, of others all over the world without a problem.

Hover, before installing it, it's wise to read here first:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/950717

 

[Unknown]

Have you any concept of how many people have installed SP3 without a
problem?
Does that tell you anything?

 

[Bill in Co.]

Do you have any concept of the number of people who quite contently haven't
installed it?

And who have NO related problems (or potential "pitfalls" to avoid before
installing it)? (you know, that page of links to some caveats and warnings)?
Does that tell you anything?

 

[Unknown]

Absolutely. It tells me hundreds if not thousands are running computers with
a lot of trash on them that interferes with
the OS.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I entirely agree......Herb. I've been reading all these problems that
some if not most have been experiencing w/ SP3; also, w/ SP2 when it made
its debut.

Whenever a new version of *anything* comes out, you always read about
"all these problems that some if not most have." But realize two
things:

1. If you're reading about problems *here*, this where people come
with their problems, not with their successes. You get a very
distorted view of what's going on in the real world here; as someone
once said, "hang around a transmission shop and you will think that
all cars have transmission problems."

2. Most problems, by far, that people report here--whether or not they
are SP3-related--have nothing to do with defects in the software. They
result from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate hardware, from
old drivers, from viruses, from spyware, and so on. And except for
very rare situations, they always get a fix for their problems, and in
most cases, that fix is a very simple one to implement.

Is there much to be gained from having SP3,

Better security and problems fixed. You can read the details here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...AD-BC34-40BE-8D85-6BB4F56F5110&displaylang=en

 

[Katie]

Well, here's my update on the SP3 Debacle: I uninstalled it, but it still
completely trashed NAV 2008, crashing anytime I tried to run a scan. It also
crashed the computer when I tried to run AdAware. And by the way, I tried
many restores, but it didn't help at all. So I used the Norton removal tool
to get rid of NAV and put in AVG. So far, so good. I believe there are still
a couple lingering issues from SP3, even though it's supposedly "gone".

From now on, I will not use AutoUpdate, and only get security updates as I
need them. I realize now that there are pages of warnings and
non-compatibility issues with SP3, but in my opinion, MS is using us as beta
testers on a high-priority automatic update. This has cost me days and days
of trying to fix something that was not broken in the first place. Microsoft
should be ashamed of itself, and issue an apology. I realize that's never
going to happen, but to anybody considering installing SP3, DO NOT DO IT!

 

[Erik Vastmasd]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:57:01 -0700,when reading
"microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support", I'm certain I caught a

Well, here's my update on the SP3 Debacle: I uninstalled it, but it still
completely trashed NAV 2008, crashing anytime I tried to run a scan. It also
crashed the computer when I tried to run AdAware. And by the way, I tried
many restores, but it didn't help at all. So I used the Norton removal tool
to get rid of NAV and put in AVG. So far, so good. I believe there are still
a couple lingering issues from SP3, even though it's supposedly "gone".

From now on, I will not use AutoUpdate, and only get security updates as I
need them. I realize now that there are pages of warnings and
non-compatibility issues with SP3, but in my opinion, MS is using us as beta
testers on a high-priority automatic update. This has cost me days and days
of trying to fix something that was not broken in the first place. Microsoft
should be ashamed of itself, and issue an apology. I realize that's never
going to happen, but to anybody considering installing SP3, DO NOT DO IT!

<snipped all the rest>

I've installed SP3 a number of times on my computers without problems.

You were using NAV 2008 which has a reputation for being dodgy?
Using the free AVG? Many people are reporting problems with AVG.
Also AdAaware?

I'm not a Microsoft lover but I don't reckon you can blame Microsoft for
your above debacle.

 

[Terry]

I just installed SP3 on my old laptop that was running XP sp2 and had NIS2008
installed and working on it. I have had no problems so far. I am still
going to wait before installing it on my desktop XP sp2.

 

[Katie]

Well, I feel like I need to add an update here to my problem. I discovered
that if you have an HP Computer with an AMD chip & also run NAV 2008, that
the SP3 update will cause all sorts of problems, from slow applications to
constant crashes. I had already uninstalled SP3, but still couldn't run a
virus scan with AVG (I completely removed Norton.)

I decided to download Microsoft Update KB953356 in order to try and repair
the damage from SP3. I am now able to run a full virus scan without the
computer crashing. Whoo - hoo!

I do sincerely appreciate everyone's help on this issue. However, I don't
feel like the average single-computer user should have to read multiple tech
articles or books just to install an update that MS deems "critical." I'm not
going to reinstall SP3 unless they issue a clean version that won't wonk up
my computer. The fact that MS is now offering *FREE* unlimited telephone,
chat & email support for SP3 issues shows that they know the massive mess
they made.
(http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&prid=11273&gprid=522131).

Thank you everybody!

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Well, I feel like I need to add an update here to my problem. I
discovered that if you have an HP Computer with an AMD chip & also
run NAV 2008, that the SP3 update will cause all sorts of problems,
from slow applications to constant crashes. I had already
uninstalled SP3, but still couldn't run a virus scan with AVG (I
completely removed Norton.)

I decided to download Microsoft Update KB953356 in order to try and
repair the damage from SP3. I am now able to run a full virus scan
without the computer crashing. Whoo - hoo!

I do sincerely appreciate everyone's help on this issue. However, I
don't feel like the average single-computer user should have to
read multiple tech articles or books just to install an update that
MS deems "critical." I'm not going to reinstall SP3 unless they
issue a clean version that won't wonk up my computer. The fact that
MS is now offering *FREE* unlimited telephone, chat & email support
for SP3 issues shows that they know the massive mess they made.
(http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&prid=11273&gprid=522131).

Thank you everybody!

Sorry - your problem is with HP and how they imaged their machine - not SP3.
*shrug*

SP3 will not be changing.

 

[Linda]

My desktop pc operating system is Win XP Professional
and the chip is AMD Anthlon.
The first time Service Pack 3(not in safe mode) was installed it failed.
Unfortunately I just step away from my pc when it
happened so I did not see the error message. Luckily
my pc was restored with no problem. I read somewhere
and also mentioned by Katie that pc running chips
made by Advanced Micro Devices has problem installing
SP3, Is there any hotfix or software that I can run before installing
SP3 if I decided to do it again. Thanks for any suggestion.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

My desktop pc operating system is Win XP Professional
and the chip is AMD Anthlon.
The first time Service Pack 3(not in safe mode) was installed it
failed. Unfortunately I just step away from my pc when it
happened so I did not see the error message. Luckily
my pc was restored with no problem. I read somewhere
and also mentioned by Katie that pc running chips
made by Advanced Micro Devices has problem installing
SP3, Is there any hotfix or software that I can run before
installing SP3 if I decided to do it again. Thanks for any
suggestion.

A place to get FREE support for SP3 installation issues *from Microsoft*...
http://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?ln=en-us&prid=11273&gprid=522131

Windows XP Service Pack 3 - ISO-9660 CD Image File
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...ce-b5fb-4488-8c50-fe22559d164e&DisplayLang=en

Windows XP Service Pack 3 Network Installation Package for IT Professionals
and Developers
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...A8-5E76-401F-BE08-1E1555D4F3D4&displaylang=en

WinXP SP3 - Read all prerequisites for a successful installation
http://msmvps.com/blogs/harrywaldro...requisites-for-a-successful-installation.aspx

Steps to take before you install Windows XP Service Pack 3
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/950717

Release Notes for Windows XP Service Pack 3
http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/d/8/cd8cc719-7d5a-40d3-a802-e4057aa8c631/relnotes.htm

Key things to note:

Internet Explorer:
"If you have installed Windows Internet Explorer® 7 or a beta version of
Internet Explorer 8, and then install Windows XP SP3, you cannot uninstall
Internet Explorer. To avoid this, ensure Internet Explorer 7 or a beta
version of Internet Explorer 8 is not installed before installing Windows XP
SP3. If you have already encountered this issue, uninstall Windows XP SP3,
uninstall Internet Explorer, and then reinstall Windows XP SP3."

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2002:
"If you install Windows XP SP3 on a computer running Windows XP Media Center
Edition 2002 with SP1, Windows XP Media Center Edition may malfunction. To
avoid this, install Windows XP SP2 before you install Windows XP SP3. If
this issue has already occurred, uninstall Windows XP SP3, install Windows
XP SP2, and then reinstall Windows XP SP3."

It seems some people are unable to get further updates after installing
SP3... Seems some have experienced a symptom similar to doing a repair
installation on Windows XP - and the same fix seems to work for them for
that...

Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from Microsoft
Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
installation
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144

Some people experience an "endless reboot" issue...

From PA Bear [MS MVP]:
Workarounds:

http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jes...ed-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx
[NB: The above has been updated many times and now includes "a small tool
that will detect the IntelPPM problem and mitigate it before installing
[WinXP SP3]."

1. Boot into Safe Mode and rename INTELPMM.SYS to INTELPMM.OLD.
2. After booting into Safe Mode:
Start --> Run --> (copy/paste)
sc config intelppm start= disabled
--> OK --> Reboot into normal (Windows) mode.

Other references include:
.. http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=187790#p187790
..
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jes...ed-computer-boot-after-installing-xp-sp3.aspx
.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/09/windows_xp_sp3_reboots_crashes/
..
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9084418
.. You receive a "Stop 0x0000007E" error message after you upgrade to Windows
XP Service Pack 2 or Service Pack 3 on a non-Intel-processor-based computer
(Revised 06 May-08)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888372

Some people have gotten an "Access Denied" message when trying to install
SP3... Method 3 of this article:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949377


Beyond that - some simple maintenance might be needed - like installing the
latest hardware drivers from your hardware vendors...

 

[Gale]

I appreciate your posting. I just OK'd the update on my computer, when I
went to restart, it will only start in Safe Mode. I sent an email to Windows
help and should hear back in 24 hours. From this discussion group, I see it
may be my Norton 2008, I am wondering if I should use the Norton fix or wait
for a reply from Windows help team.