Self-Clean Range Will Not Work

[Paul]

No disagreement there. The part I disagree with was the
claim from Ian that a stove is basicly a 120 volt device.
That's wrong and apparently you agree because you
say the oven elements are 240V. I know many of the
stove top elements are too. I'll even bet most of them are.
If you have a wiring diagram online that shows a stove
wired with 120V elements for the cooktop,
I'd be happy to see it.

The proof would also be in the plug and outlet on the wall for it.
Modern wiring jobs seem to use a plug and outlet. Probably
the same kind used on the full-sized clothes dryer - with four
pins on it. Something like the ones on the middle-right here.
The green pin would be safety ground, leaving two hots and a neutral.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/NEMA_simplified_pins.svg

My stove back home, was permanently wired to the house. There was a jacketed cable
connected to it. I never inspected where that connected in the back, as I never
had to pull it out from the wall. Any time I needed to work on it, my work
was limited to the "tilt down head section". Plus the terminal blocks on
the stove elements, or the wiring in the oven where the broiler and
oven elements were (top and bottom). The top broiler element, was
for making grilled cheese sandwiches Yummm... That stove didn't
have self-cleaning, and had baked enamel finish (for your
Easy-Off treatment).

I was always impressed by the Cal-Rod elements in that thing, for the
punishment they could take. And never a "short" to the exterior of
them. No electric shock through any pots etc. I probably should
have sawed one in half, to see how it was constructed.

I guess with Wiki, you never need to saw stuff in half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calrod

"Tubular (sealed element, often known by the trademark "Calrod"):
a fine coil of Nickel chrome wire in a ceramic insulating binder
(MgO, alumina powder), sealed inside a tube made of stainless steel
or brass. These can be a straight rod (as in toaster ovens) or curved
to span an area to be heated (such as in electric stoves, ovens,
and coffee makers)."

So there was ceramic inside it.

Paul

 

[Paul]

You're right, he was OK until "All stove elements are 120v, and wired so that
in normal use the load is equalized from each 120v bus to neutral". There is
only 120V (to ground) at any point, though.

I was able to find some stove top elements, which are 240 volt and
some 120 volt. It could very well be that our old stove had 240 volt elements.
I was only swapping like for like, so wasn't in need of substitution information.

Here are some 120V ones.

http://www.prontotech.com/shop/calrod-heating-element

We also had a small rangette, which had 120V wiring and could be unplugged.
And it had Calrod style elements as well. Only that received so little use,
it didn't need maintenance. It also had limitations on what elements
would run at full power (as the 120 wiring wouldn't allow you to do
much more than boil one kettle). It could be, if you turned on two elements,
they ran at half-power (maybe enough to keep something warm). The other
(main) stove didn't have any usage restrictions. If making a Christmas dinner,
virtually every heating element was turned on the thing

Paul

 

[trader4]

The proof would also be in the plug and outlet on the wall for it.

The plug isn't going to prove what the two of you claim.
One guy claims all the oven elements are 120V. And
you claim the stove top elements are 120V. All new
stoves that I've seen have a connection that consists of
two hots, a neutral and ground. With that you can
support 240V and 120V. In my experience, the
heating elements have always been 240V and the
120V is used for light bulbs, indicator lights, timer
clock motors in older units, etc.

The way to prove it would be to find a wiring schematic
for a range that shows the heating elements connected
to 120V.

Modern wiring jobs seem to use a plug and outlet.

Not in the new Kitchenaid oven I just installed.
It was direct wire.

 

[trader4]

I was able to find some stove top elements, which are 240 volt and
some 120 volt. It could very well be that our old stove had 240 volt elements.
I was only swapping like for like, so wasn't in need of substitution information.

Here are some 120V ones.

http://www.prontotech.com/shop/calrod-heating-element

Those sure don't look like a stovetop heating element,
now do they? The issue was NOT whether 120V heating
elements of any type exist. We all know they do. The
question was whether there are any ovens or stove
cooktop heating elements of that type. The picture
shows straight heating elements that are about 800Watts.

We also had a small rangette, which had 120V wiring and could be unplugged.
And it had Calrod style elements as well. Only that received so little use,
it didn't need maintenance. It also had limitations on what elements
would run at full power (as the 120 wiring wouldn't allow you to do
much more than boil one kettle).

Which of course is a lot different than a built-in self-cleaning
oven. I'm not surprised to find 120V elements there, since
it plugs into a 120V socket.

 

[Steve B]

Get a pen an paper. Unplug it, then plug it right back in. It MAY display
an error code. The packet with the error codes is taped on the side of the
oven, so you may have to take out a couple of screws to get to that and see
what the error code says. Most times, it is the door interlock.

Steve

 

[Bob]

... I'm not sure
there isn't a stove somewhere with a stovetop heating element
that runs off 120V. But I haven't seen one. They've had
240V heating elements. I'd like to see a schematic for
one of these 120V element stoves. Shouldn't be hard to
do if they are out there and common.

Prior to the modern cooktops with infinite heat levels accomplished by
time cycling power to the coils, variable heat levels were accomplished
by powering coils at 120 or 240 volts. The GE 5-speed scheme used two
coils on each unit powered as follows:

Hi - both elements 240v parallel
2 - one element 240v
3 - both elements 240v series
Lo - one element 120v
Wm - both elements 120v series

--

 

[trader4]

Prior to the modern cooktops with infinite heat levels accomplished by
time cycling power to the coils, variable heat levels were accomplished
by powering coils at 120 or 240 volts.  The GE 5-speed scheme used two
coils on each unit powered as follows:

Hi - both elements 240v parallel
2  - one element 240v
3  - both elements 240v series
Lo - one element 120v
Wm - both elements 120v series

--

That's interesting. Out of curiousity, how long ago are
you talking about? It seems to me the method of
using a simple switch that cycles the power on and off
to control the amount of heat has been around since
at least the 60s, no?

And the GE method still has the range using both
240V and 120V to heat. The two assertions being
made that I disagreed with were that
all ovens use 120V elements and stovetops use
120V elements.

 

[Strobe]

That's interesting. Out of curiousity, how long ago are
you talking about? It seems to me the method of
using a simple switch that cycles the power on and off
to control the amount of heat has been around since
at least the 60s, no?

Way back in the early 50s I used a Simmerstat to control a laboratory furnace.
And it wasn't cutting edge then.