Scroll Bars behavior in IE

D

Dan Newell

Open a large web page. If you click on the scroll bar on
either side of the thumb (above or below it), IE will
scroll up or down through the document.

In most applications, clicking anywhere in the scroll bar
corresponds to 1 page up or page down. I don't have my
windows style guide in front of me, but I believe this
used to be the defined behavior.

In IE, *where* you click in the scroll bar changes the
distance IE scrolls. If you click close to the thumb, IE
scrolls approximately one page. If you scroll far away
from the thumb and close to the far arrow icon (small
black triangle in a square box) that composes the end of
the scroll bar, IE will scroll some capricious and
indeterminate distance in that direction.

There are other UI models for scroll bars in other
operating systems. They usually give more visual
indication that scroll travel is proportional to where
interaction occurs. They show where to click to get page
up/down and where to click to move proportionally.

Unfortunately, IE does not do this. The current behavior,
IMHO, makes the scroll bar far less useful. IE is mostly a
point/click interface and often kbd interaction is
disfavored or less useful (except here). Most often, when
opening a large web page, page down is the obvious
followup action to take. It is my sense that until
recently, clicking in the scroll bar on either side of the
thumb did only move one page up or down. One only had to
push the mouse to the right lower corner of the scroll bar
a single time and click again and again without moving the
mouse or taking eyes off the text to read through the
document.

The current behavior forces the user to locate the thumb,
position the cursor arbitrarily close to the thumb
(because the mouse target for 1 page up/down behavior is
not evident and seems quite small on very large web
pages), and repeat this every time a page operation is
repeated. That or take the hand off the mouse and use the
page up/down keys.

Again, IMHO, the coding that went into the proportional
scrolling should be ripped out and the behavior simplified
to that clicking anywhere in the scroll bar ought to only
page up or down *one* page. Shooting to some random
location in the document is not helpful. I would suggest
that 99.999% of the time, when people read to the bottom
of the screen, they want to read the next line in a web
page and not jump an indeterminant number of lines/pages.

Already, IE is pretty poor at giving an indication of
where the last line of text has moved to after you page
down. If you page down, the bottom line of text ought to
be either the top line of text or at least *always* in the
same location down from the top of the frame. In IE, the
position of the next line of text to read seems to shift
around forcing the reader to hunt.

While I am at it, it would be trivial to have the exact
line of text that was formerly at the bottom of the screen
to flash at the top of the screen (if it is not at the
exact top) to give the eyes an easy target so they can
resume reading immediately, rather than hunting for where
they left off after every page down before reading can
resume. This can be anything from inverting the pixels
several times or flashing an underline or what have you.

Now, having written all this, I am basing my opinion on
the systems I have available. I suppose there could be
something peculiar to my setups or else something
blazingly obviously wrong with what I am doing ("Click
here for page up/down stupid!"). Still, this has bothered
me for some time, enough to motivate me to write.

I can be contacted at dannewell at msn.com (replace the at
with the obvious symbol) for any follow on questions.
Dan
 
B

Bob Dredge

Dan
I agree with you. It is terrible that you can not control
the scrolling. I recently updated IE and could not
understand how this was happening until I realized it only
happened within IE. I am going to go back and reinstall
and earlier version.
 
B

Birger Sorensen

Hi,

It's not that I want to defend MS, and you do have a point...

And there's probably some, that has good use of being able to easy and fast
get to the bottom of a large page. Some has for some reason important links,
like contact info, only available at the bottom. I know from myself, that,
if I want to contact the people behind the site, it does not mean that I
nescessarily want to read my way to a link at the bottom....

They have invented several pointing devices with scroll whels. These are
very easy to use, and I think by default scroll to what corresponds to 3
lines.

And this is the next thing.... IE does not organize the screen by the text
on the page. The text is a content in some (graphic) object. There is a
default font and a default size for a given location. Depending on the
programmer of the page, this may or may not fit the actual font and size you
see - and may or may not fit with srolling pages.
So the task of making some kind of highlight of the line that was previously
the bottom line after scrolling is virtually impossible - at best will
require a good part of resources and memory, and take some time to locate...

The ScrollBar has arrows at the top and bottom. These will scroll "three
lines". Locate your mouse before you start reading, and you can scroll down
as you read at your own pace....
Or you can position the mouse over the slider, and gently drag it to any
portion of the page you want. This can be difficult on large pages - but
pages that large are IMHO bad formatted... A page that holds that much text,
should be formatted so it is easy for visitors to find their way around it.
This is not really a task for IE...

Finally you have the option to use Page Up/Down buttons.These actually does
the same as clicking the ScrollBar where they change a page up or down. And
no, having to click the keyboard is no more difficult than clicking the
mouse....

To me the scrollbar is an effective tool. The Slider gives you an indication
of the size of what you see on the screen compared to the whole document,
and an indication of where this part you are looking at is in the document.

The scrollbar is a windows component, and not an IE component, and is used
as you say many places throughout Windows, and by other programs as well.
The settings of it, is the responsibility of the programmer of the program
in question.
You can probably find an older version of the standard controls, that does
not support these new features that you don't like. These are located in
*.dll files in the System folder. I do not know the name of the one holding
the scrollbar - otherwise I'd give it. Try looking through the knowledge
database - there may well be other people having the same problem adapting
to the new behavior...

Birger Sorensen


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Newell" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6.browser
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:46 PM
Subject: Scroll Bars behavior in IE


| Open a large web page. If you click on the scroll bar on
| either side of the thumb (above or below it), IE will
| scroll up or down through the document.
|
| In most applications, clicking anywhere in the scroll bar
| corresponds to 1 page up or page down. I don't have my
| windows style guide in front of me, but I believe this
| used to be the defined behavior.
|
| In IE, *where* you click in the scroll bar changes the
| distance IE scrolls. If you click close to the thumb, IE
| scrolls approximately one page. If you scroll far away
| from the thumb and close to the far arrow icon (small
| black triangle in a square box) that composes the end of
| the scroll bar, IE will scroll some capricious and
| indeterminate distance in that direction.
|
| There are other UI models for scroll bars in other
| operating systems. They usually give more visual
| indication that scroll travel is proportional to where
| interaction occurs. They show where to click to get page
| up/down and where to click to move proportionally.
|
| Unfortunately, IE does not do this. The current behavior,
| IMHO, makes the scroll bar far less useful. IE is mostly a
| point/click interface and often kbd interaction is
| disfavored or less useful (except here). Most often, when
| opening a large web page, page down is the obvious
| followup action to take. It is my sense that until
| recently, clicking in the scroll bar on either side of the
| thumb did only move one page up or down. One only had to
| push the mouse to the right lower corner of the scroll bar
| a single time and click again and again without moving the
| mouse or taking eyes off the text to read through the
| document.
|
| The current behavior forces the user to locate the thumb,
| position the cursor arbitrarily close to the thumb
| (because the mouse target for 1 page up/down behavior is
| not evident and seems quite small on very large web
| pages), and repeat this every time a page operation is
| repeated. That or take the hand off the mouse and use the
| page up/down keys.
|
| Again, IMHO, the coding that went into the proportional
| scrolling should be ripped out and the behavior simplified
| to that clicking anywhere in the scroll bar ought to only
| page up or down *one* page. Shooting to some random
| location in the document is not helpful. I would suggest
| that 99.999% of the time, when people read to the bottom
| of the screen, they want to read the next line in a web
| page and not jump an indeterminant number of lines/pages.
|
| Already, IE is pretty poor at giving an indication of
| where the last line of text has moved to after you page
| down. If you page down, the bottom line of text ought to
| be either the top line of text or at least *always* in the
| same location down from the top of the frame. In IE, the
| position of the next line of text to read seems to shift
| around forcing the reader to hunt.
|
| While I am at it, it would be trivial to have the exact
| line of text that was formerly at the bottom of the screen
| to flash at the top of the screen (if it is not at the
| exact top) to give the eyes an easy target so they can
| resume reading immediately, rather than hunting for where
| they left off after every page down before reading can
| resume. This can be anything from inverting the pixels
| several times or flashing an underline or what have you.
|
| Now, having written all this, I am basing my opinion on
| the systems I have available. I suppose there could be
| something peculiar to my setups or else something
| blazingly obviously wrong with what I am doing ("Click
| here for page up/down stupid!"). Still, this has bothered
| me for some time, enough to motivate me to write.
|
| I can be contacted at dannewell at msn.com (replace the at
| with the obvious symbol) for any follow on questions.
| Dan
 
A

Anonymous Coward

Dan,

I think it is generally accepted that the behavior you describe is a bug
that was introduced in the latest security patch (Q824145). You are not
doing anything wrong, and if it bothers you enough, you can remove the
patch. Be aware that there are security issues involved with removing it.
Unfortunately, security issues still seem to be common in IE, so it's not
like you will be perfectly safe with this patch either.

Many people have complained about it. MSFT still has not officially
acknowledged it AFAIK (see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;325192), though
several of the MS-MVPs on this board say MSFT "is aware of the problem." I
believe that the current behavior is unacceptable. It is certainly
inconsistent with scroll bar behavior in every other Windows application
that I know. Since I use a laptop with a trackpad as my main machine, it is
especially inconvenient. I sincerely hope that MSFT will treat this as a
bug, not a feature.
 
S

Stephen Tapp

I am experiencing the same frustration you and Zam are
about this new clicking in the scroll bar behavior in IE &
OE. First I thought I had messed something up; now I
think MS messed something up. If this was a recent design
decision, slipped in during a security update, it sucks as
bad as the New Coke did, particularly when a right click
at any position inside the scroll bar offers the user a
menu choice to "Scroll Here."
 
M

mac

Stephen Tapp said:
I am experiencing the same frustration you and Zam are
about this new clicking in the scroll bar behavior in IE &
OE. First I thought I had messed something up; now I
think MS messed something up. If this was a recent design
decision, slipped in during a security update, it sucks as
bad as the New Coke did, particularly when a right click
at any position inside the scroll bar offers the user a
menu choice to "Scroll Here."

The jerky scroll is caused by the latest update, 824145 security fix, if you
have installed it.
Still waiting for a revised fix from MS.

Drag the scroll bar or click under the Down arrow for more control.

You can remove the fix, add/remove programs but will lose the security
aspect.
 

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