Rules order not followed

F

Frank Lamers

I have several rules to process incoming mails in a given order. The
processing order is not working properly.

Just for information:
First two rules to flag messages with different colors
Third rule to delete Spam following a private rule
Fourth rule to move mailing list messages
Fifth rule to separate messages from a second mailserver

Often a rule is applied, but other rules coming in the order before are not
applied.
In example: Fifth rule is processed, but fourth rule ignored. Or third rule
processed and first rule ignored.

The order is mostly working fine, but for some messages (maybe 20 %) it is
not followed.
If executing a rule manually it works fine, so there is no error within the
rules.

The client I use is Outlook 2003, working with Exchange 2000 and two other
POP3-Servers.

Any ideas?

Regards
--Frank
 
V

*Vanguard*

"Frank Lamers" said in news:ORp8jCi%[email protected]:
I have several rules to process incoming mails in a given order. The
processing order is not working properly.

Just for information:
First two rules to flag messages with different colors
Third rule to delete Spam following a private rule
Fourth rule to move mailing list messages
Fifth rule to separate messages from a second mailserver

Often a rule is applied, but other rules coming in the order before
are not applied.
In example: Fifth rule is processed, but fourth rule ignored. Or
third rule processed and first rule ignored.

The order is mostly working fine, but for some messages (maybe 20 %)
it is not followed.
If executing a rule manually it works fine, so there is no error
within the rules.

The client I use is Outlook 2003, working with Exchange 2000 and two
other POP3-Servers.

Any ideas?

Regards
--Frank

Your 4th rule moves the message. Then your 5th rule moves the message
again. So it's working as defined. If you want a rule to get exercised
without running any subsequent rules against the same message, use the "stop
processing more rules" clause.

The rules are OR'ed together, not AND'ed. You'll probably get specific help
if you provide specific details, like listing your rules so we can see if
there is invalid logic in how they are defined or how you expect them to
behave.
 
F

Frank Lamers

Thanks for the hint to add "stop processing more rules". This may cause some
of the problems, but not all of them.

To flag a message in a color is a rule which should be processed first. But
it is not always be done. The messages are moved to another folder
following a later rule, but the messages are often not colored following the
rule before.

My Outlook is in german language, so the rules are in german as well. I try
to translate my rules. If you can read it, please look at the exported rules
I attached.

1. Rule:
Receiving a message
with "X-Spam-Status: Yes" in a Headline
only on this machine
flag message with Red
except the sender is in addressbook Contacts

2. Rule:
Receiving a message
whose sender is in addressbook Contacts
only on this machine
flag message with Green

3. Rule:
Receiving a message
sent to NTBUGTRAQLISTSERV.NTBUGTRAQ.COM
move to folder NTBugTraq
and process no more rules

4. Rule:
Receiving a message
with "[SPAM]" in Subject
only on this machine
move to folder Junk-E-Mail
except the sender is in addressbook All Address Lists
process no more rules

5.Rule:
Receiving a message
by account KANT
only on this machine
move to folder Junk-E-Mail
and process no more rules

Any Idea why rule 1 and 2 are not always processed? Applying manually works
fine.

--Frank
 
V

*Vanguard*

"Frank Lamers" said in
To flag a message in a color is a rule which should be processed
first.

Must be a new rule action defined in Outlook 2003. I'm using Outlook 2002
and do not have a rule that will "flag message with <color>". I color code
my messages by customizing the view in the folder. If there is some new
color coding rule in OL2003, might be it really doesn't work reliably.

I don't understand the "only on this machine" clause. It doesn't make sense
to me so I've never used it, but then I always yank my e-mails from the same
host. The only KB article I saw mention of this clause was # 278089 where
it said, "..., unless you use this rule parameter, all rules are active no
matter what computer you use for mail access." So I guess *where* you
define rule dictates where it will get used (i.e., enabled). If you use
roaming profiles and login on a different host than where you defined the
rule then the rule will be inactive and not exercised against your messages.
I suppose this clause has some use but I have never defined a rule that only
sometimes gets executed against my messages depending on which host I run
Outlook to yank my e-mails. Could be this is the problem. Did you define
the rule on host_A but are running Outlook on host_B?
1. Rule:
Receiving a message
with "X-Spam-Status: Yes" in a Headline
only on this machine
flag message with Red
except the sender is in addressbook Contacts

You can probably leave out the except clause. Since there is no stop clause
in this rule, the next rule will change the color to green for known senders
regardless of whether or not the message got colored by this rule.

Also, why bother running subsequent rules once you know a message is
[probably] spam? It's spam so you don't want it marked green because then
all you'll know is the message came from a known sender, not that it is spam
from a known sender. Or maybe you do receive spam from known senders (i.e.,
in your address book). Since you are not deleting this message but instead
just marking it red, don't you want to know that it is spam whether or not a
known sender sent it? To me, it seems a stop clause is missing in this
rule. Once it is spam, it's spam, and you want to know it's spam despite
who sent it.
2. Rule:
Receiving a message
whose sender is in addressbook Contacts
only on this machine
flag message with Green

Nothing special here (except the "only on this machine" clause). Do you
want a different set of rules exercised against your messages depending on
which host you run Outlook? If you defined this rule while logged onto
host_A and then use Outlook on host_B, this rule is inactive when you are on
host_B.
3. Rule:
Receiving a message
sent to NTBUGTRAQLISTSERV.NTBUGTRAQ.COM
move to folder NTBugTraq
and process no more rules

Unless you have whitelisted this sender in your anti-spam software, or to
prevent it from getting colored red because it got detected as spam, move
this rule to the top of the list. Whitelist rules should be at the top of
the list (and include the stop clause, which you have here).
4. Rule:
Receiving a message
with "[SPAM]" in Subject
only on this machine
move to folder Junk-E-Mail
except the sender is in addressbook All Address Lists
process no more rules

Looks like you have 2 anti-spam programs, or the one anti-spam program is
inserting both a header (which you detect in rule #1) and also inserting the
"[SPAM]" tag in the Subject header.

Seems like this rule should be positioned right after rule #2. Rule #1
should also have the stop clause since there's no point in doubly checking
if a message is spam. Once it gets detected as spam by one anti-spam
product, you don't need to again check if it is spam in the other anti-spam
product. Once you swat the mosquito, you don't have to swat it again.
5.Rule:
Receiving a message
by account KANT
only on this machine
move to folder Junk-E-Mail
and process no more rules

I'm confused on this one. Presumably you meant "through the 'Kant' account"
where 'Kant' is the name of an account you have defined in Outlook. This
means all messages sent to your Kant account are considered junk. Why
bother yanking e-mails from an account on your ISP that you deem will only
contain junk mails? Just don't yank them at all.

Shouldn't this rule be move up along with rule #4 so they both are
positioned after the spam-catch rule #1? That is, I would think you would
have the spam-catch rules together as: 'with "X-Spam-Status: Yes"', followed
by 'with "[SPAM]" in Subject', followed by 'through the Kant account', and
each with a stop clause (you only need to step on spam or junk mails once;
there's no point in OR'ing the spam-catch rules since once it is caught then
you don't need to re-catch it).
 
F

Frank Lamers

The clause "Only on this machine" is checked automatically and cannot be
unchecked. Don't ask me why.

I am using the just one workstation for configuring the rules and using
Outlook for reading and sending mails. So, that cannot be the problem. In my
opinion the rules just do not work properly.
:-(


*Vanguard* said:
"Frank Lamers" said in
To flag a message in a color is a rule which should be processed
first.

Must be a new rule action defined in Outlook 2003. I'm using Outlook 2002
and do not have a rule that will "flag message with <color>". I color code
my messages by customizing the view in the folder. If there is some new
color coding rule in OL2003, might be it really doesn't work reliably.

I don't understand the "only on this machine" clause. It doesn't make sense
to me so I've never used it, but then I always yank my e-mails from the same
host. The only KB article I saw mention of this clause was # 278089 where
it said, "..., unless you use this rule parameter, all rules are active no
matter what computer you use for mail access." So I guess *where* you
define rule dictates where it will get used (i.e., enabled). If you use
roaming profiles and login on a different host than where you defined the
rule then the rule will be inactive and not exercised against your messages.
I suppose this clause has some use but I have never defined a rule that only
sometimes gets executed against my messages depending on which host I run
Outlook to yank my e-mails. Could be this is the problem. Did you define
the rule on host_A but are running Outlook on host_B?
1. Rule:
Receiving a message
with "X-Spam-Status: Yes" in a Headline
only on this machine
flag message with Red
except the sender is in addressbook Contacts

You can probably leave out the except clause. Since there is no stop clause
in this rule, the next rule will change the color to green for known senders
regardless of whether or not the message got colored by this rule.

Also, why bother running subsequent rules once you know a message is
[probably] spam? It's spam so you don't want it marked green because then
all you'll know is the message came from a known sender, not that it is spam
from a known sender. Or maybe you do receive spam from known senders (i.e.,
in your address book). Since you are not deleting this message but instead
just marking it red, don't you want to know that it is spam whether or not a
known sender sent it? To me, it seems a stop clause is missing in this
rule. Once it is spam, it's spam, and you want to know it's spam despite
who sent it.
2. Rule:
Receiving a message
whose sender is in addressbook Contacts
only on this machine
flag message with Green

Nothing special here (except the "only on this machine" clause). Do you
want a different set of rules exercised against your messages depending on
which host you run Outlook? If you defined this rule while logged onto
host_A and then use Outlook on host_B, this rule is inactive when you are on
host_B.

3. Rule:
Receiving a message
sent to NTBUGTRAQLISTSERV.NTBUGTRAQ.COM
move to folder NTBugTraq
and process no more rules

Unless you have whitelisted this sender in your anti-spam software, or to
prevent it from getting colored red because it got detected as spam, move
this rule to the top of the list. Whitelist rules should be at the top of
the list (and include the stop clause, which you have here).
4. Rule:
Receiving a message
with "[SPAM]" in Subject
only on this machine
move to folder Junk-E-Mail
except the sender is in addressbook All Address Lists
process no more rules

Looks like you have 2 anti-spam programs, or the one anti-spam program is
inserting both a header (which you detect in rule #1) and also inserting the
"[SPAM]" tag in the Subject header.

Seems like this rule should be positioned right after rule #2. Rule #1
should also have the stop clause since there's no point in doubly checking
if a message is spam. Once it gets detected as spam by one anti-spam
product, you don't need to again check if it is spam in the other anti-spam
product. Once you swat the mosquito, you don't have to swat it again.
5.Rule:
Receiving a message
by account KANT
only on this machine
move to folder Junk-E-Mail
and process no more rules

I'm confused on this one. Presumably you meant "through the 'Kant' account"
where 'Kant' is the name of an account you have defined in Outlook. This
means all messages sent to your Kant account are considered junk. Why
bother yanking e-mails from an account on your ISP that you deem will only
contain junk mails? Just don't yank them at all.

Shouldn't this rule be move up along with rule #4 so they both are
positioned after the spam-catch rule #1? That is, I would think you would
have the spam-catch rules together as: 'with "X-Spam-Status: Yes"', followed
by 'with "[SPAM]" in Subject', followed by 'through the Kant account', and
each with a stop clause (you only need to step on spam or junk mails once;
there's no point in OR'ing the spam-catch rules since once it is caught then
you don't need to re-catch it).
 
V

*Vanguard*

"Frank Lamers" said in news:%23$KDxP3%[email protected]:
The clause "Only on this machine" is checked automatically and cannot
be unchecked. Don't ask me why.

I am using the just one workstation for configuring the rules and
using Outlook for reading and sending mails. So, that cannot be the
problem. In my opinion the rules just do not work properly.
:-(

I did find another KB article (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=826969)
which mentions the "only on this machine" clause behavior is different
between OL2002 and OL2003. It does not address why you cannot remove this
clause from your rule. Can you define a new rule just like an old one but
which doesn't use the "only on this machine" clause? If you migrated the
rules from OL2002 to OL2003 then maybe this condition gets stuck (and is
enabled). From the articles description of this clause, it would appear
some of your rules are client-side but some are still server-side, like
rules #3 and #4 which are based on the Subject header. This probably only
applies when using MS Exchange as your mail server instead of POP/SMTP, but
you've got a mixed environment where you have both type of mail services
defined for accounts in your e-mail client.

Nothing else stands out to me as the culprit except the "only on this
machine" clause, but you say you cannot turn it off in the rule. That
itself is suspicious. It shouldn't be forced on anymore than any other
clause should be forced on (since you could then never define the rule as
you want from the available selection of clauses). That's why I recommended
trying to create a new rule just like the old one to see if you are still
forced to use this clause. If so, trying to figure out why this clause gets
forced on when defining a new rule seems to be what needs to be targeted.
 
G

Gregg Hill

The "only on this machine" rule, I believe, is a local rule rather than a
rule applied from an Exchange server. It depends upon how you set up the
rule as to where it gets applied.

I'd give more details, but I have to head out to the doctor right now.

Gregg Hill
 

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