RTM = legal?

[Tim Draper]

is using RTM legal if your not on MSDN/technet/similar?

from my understanding, RTM = release to manufacture = retail version,
and thus it should be paid for.
i'm seeing pleanty of people on the net reporting their using RTM but
since its not yet on MSDN and only available via torrents/similar then
no-one should legally have it?

clarification please!
tim

 

[Jim]

is using RTM legal if your not on MSDN/technet/similar?

from my understanding, RTM = release to manufacture = retail version,
and thus it should be paid for.
i'm seeing pleanty of people on the net reporting their using RTM but
since its not yet on MSDN and only available via torrents/similar then
no-one should legally have it?

clarification please!
tim

It's been on MSDN since last night.



Jim

 

[Jane C]

It's been up on MSDN and Technet Plus for some hours already.

 

[Tim Draper]

anyone able to swindle me an MSDN account?

i'm just an advanced pc user - i only have access to what the public get
access to (beta2, RC1, rc2 etc) - but love to test the latest and
greatest stuff.

a reword of my question then......
for those users NOT on MSDN (majority of the public) or suchlike, is
using RTM illegal?
i admit i have downloaded vista RTM (v6000) torrent, but dont want to
run it if it is illegal for me to use, without paying for it.

like i say, i dont have MSDN/technet access, and am just a home user -
no connections to people who might be able to get it legit.

tim.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Pirated Versions Of Vista Won't Last Long, Microsoft Promises
http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/194400344

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| is using RTM legal if your not on MSDN/technet/similar?
|
| from my understanding, RTM = release to manufacture = retail version,
| and thus it should be paid for.
| i'm seeing pleanty of people on the net reporting their using RTM but
| since its not yet on MSDN and only available via torrents/similar then
| no-one should legally have it?
|
| clarification please!
| tim

 

[Kristan Kenney]

Windows Vista is currently available through a Microsoft Select Licensing
Agreement, MSDN or TechNet subscription, or if you participated in a Windows
Vista Technical Beta program. Any other method of obtaining the software is
illegal (for instance - BitTorrent).

--
Kristan Kenney
Windows Live Butterfly

News and Experiences on Windows Vista and beyond: http://www.windows-now.com

This post is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Richard G. Harper]

To directly answer your question - there's no way to tell (unless someone
volunteers the information) whether someone running an RTM version is
running it legally or not. There are channels other than MSDN and TechNet
that have the RTM version of Vista available now, so simply using MSDN or
TechNet as your criteria isn't enough.

But yes, anyone running the RTM version of Vista that didn't get it, along
with authorization from Microsoft to use it, is using it illegally.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] (e-mail address removed)
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

 

[Tim Draper]

Pirated Versions Of Vista Won't Last Long, Microsoft Promises
http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/194400344

good point!!
v6000 of vista, but using a pre-RTM cd key.
sooo RTM code, but with beta2/rc1/rc2 life span upto june07.

so basically..... RTM code is fine with a RC2 key from a legal point of
view?

MS also said that XP was anti-piracy wasnt it? the hackers soon found
their way around WPA.
that brings me to another question......
you have a copy of windows (XP or vista) *legally*. is it legal to use
such programs as anti-WPA aslong as you use your own legit cd key? the
way i see piracy is the difference between how you obtained a cd key.

put it this way: i can use ANYONES vista disc, or download it from the
net and use my purchased cd key on it. the data would be the same, and
only the cd key is what determins if it's legal or not.
valve's STEAM engine proves it. download entire game content via the
net, but you have to buy a product key from their store to get the game
to work.

tim

 

[Kai-Uwe v. d. Ohe]

It's been up on MSDN and Technet Plus for some hours already.

How about the "normal" TechNet (not Plus)?

Thanks,

Kai-Uwe

 

[Clint]

Also keep in mind that according to the MSDN (and TechNet, I believe)
licensing agreement, you can only use the OS for "development and testing"
purposes. The example they gave (I think) is that if you're using it for
reading corporate e-mail, you need to have a regular (or volume) license for
that OS. That's been the case going back years now.

Clint

 

[William]

....knock...knock....knock... Open the door, this is Lt. Frank Drebbin of the
Police Squad... you are running illegal software....

 

[Mike Brannigan]

anyone able to swindle me an MSDN account?

i'm just an advanced pc user - i only have access to what the public
get access to (beta2, RC1, rc2 etc) - but love to test the latest
and greatest stuff.

a reword of my question then......
for those users NOT on MSDN (majority of the public) or suchlike, is
using RTM illegal?

Of course not - you are expected to pay for a product - either as part
of an MSDN subscription for test and development purposes only or you
buy a Retail copy at the end of January next year or get it on an PC
next year.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how you could even have to ask the
question - has the message about piracy passed you by ?

i admit i have downloaded vista RTM (v6000) torrent, but dont want
to run it if it is illegal for me to use, without paying for it.

Of course downloading and using it is not the way to do it anymore
then downloading and watching the latest DVD is. Piracy plain and
simple.

like i say, i dont have MSDN/technet access, and am just a home
user - no connections to people who might be able to get it legit.

You are connected to people who can get it legit for you - it is your
local software store who will be able to sell you a copy next year.

tim.

 

[Tim Draper]

Of course not - you are expected to pay for a product - either as part
of an MSDN subscription for test and development purposes only or you
buy a Retail copy at the end of January next year or get it on an PC
next year.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how you could even have to ask the
question - has the message about piracy passed you by ?

it's the fact that OTHER places (not microsoft related) offer content
online. Steam, itunes are 2 prime examples. the data is free (you dont
pay for download capacity), you pay for the legal right to use
software.... that is with a DRM licence (itunes), product key (steam) etc.
i even think EAgames are moving to downloadable content now.

i dont know about newer EULA's, but certainly mid>late 90's you were
legally allowed to create one backup of the software. for me, iso's are
a prime backup type. it keeps data as written on the CD, on HDD where
its not going to get scratched or damaged. when you need to use that
backup, burn to cd, and it's an IDENTICAL replication of the source disc.

Of course downloading and using it is not the way to do it anymore
then downloading and watching the latest DVD is. Piracy plain and
simple.

how is it piracy if i havent yet used the program?
what is the LEGAL point of view between downloading it via MSDN or torrent?
thats like saying i deserve a speeding ticket just because i have a fast
car. the car maybe capable of doing over the limit, but i've not
acutally broken any laws yet. - just because i have software, doesnt
make me a pirate, because i havent yet used it.
besides...... RTM is legal from what i can gather on this very
newsgroup. you can use RTM for 30days as a 'trail' period. after those
30days you need a legit key.

You are connected to people who can get it legit for you - it is your
local software store who will be able to sell you a copy next year.

yes, thats next year. not right now.

 

[Tim Draper]

...knock...knock....knock... Open the door, this is Lt. Frank Drebbin of
the Police Squad... you are running illegal software....

no i'm not. re-read my post. i clearly state i am not RUNNING the software.
like i said before, you purchase the same disc as everyone else. it's
the product key that is different, and that is what establishes if your
running illegal or legit software. i dont have an RTM key. i only have
the files.

the ONLY key i posess is for RC2.

do you guys work for MS or sommat? the 1st sign of "i've downloaded a
torrent" and you jump to "OMG, he's runnign warez!!" it's just like
typical windows-fanboy talk this is. you instantly think torrent =
warez. newsflash..... not all torrents are *illegal*.

a cd costs pence to make. are you telling me that the cost of windows is
for the CD? your paying for the PRODUCT KEY of a peice of software. that
product key activates the software.

^^ hands up, i could of wrote that alot better. i should of said "is
running an RC2 on RTM code illegal?

 

[Tim Draper]

ok, screw this...... forget my 1st post.....

try this: is running RC2 key on RTM illegal? the 'trial' period is still
active. if it is illegal why didnt MS block pre-RTM keys from working on
RTM release?

if it is indeed illegal to have a copy of RTM on my machine WITHOUT an
illegally obtained cd key, does that still make it illegal? why have the
30 'free trial' activation period?

 

[Mike Brannigan]

it's the fact that OTHER places (not microsoft related) offer
content online. Steam, itunes are 2 prime examples. the data is free
(you dont pay for download capacity), you pay for the legal right to
use software.... that is with a DRM licence (itunes), product key
(steam) etc.
i even think EAgames are moving to downloadable content now.

i dont know about newer EULA's, but certainly mid>late 90's you were
legally allowed to create one backup of the software. for me, iso's
are a prime backup type. it keeps data as written on the CD, on HDD
where its not going to get scratched or damaged. when you need to
use that backup, burn to cd, and it's an IDENTICAL replication of
the source disc.

This is not about downloading the item - but the right to use it. As
you say your self you can download other content types BUT still
require to pay a license to use it either via DRM or some other
method.

So what is your point here - are you asking if you can download the
product and not use it? Or are you actually asking to download and
use it.?
If the first then what is the point? If the second - then no - for
the retail channel there is no download and then pay for a key. You
certainly can purchase additional keys and even make your self
legitimate if you acquired a pirated copy of Windows and now what to
go legit. But the primary distribution mechanism for retail product
is on media (DVD/CD).

how is it piracy if i havent yet used the program?
what is the LEGAL point of view between downloading it via MSDN or
torrent?
thats like saying i deserve a speeding ticket just because i have a
fast car. the car maybe capable of doing over the limit, but i've
not acutally broken any laws yet. - just because i have software,
doesnt make me a pirate, because i havent yet used it.
besides...... RTM is legal from what i can gather on this very
newsgroup. you can use RTM for 30days as a 'trail' period. after
those 30days you need a legit key.

Because you suggest that you downloaded it ad then were intending to
use it, without paying for it - this is piracy.
Yes the RTM is a released product BUT it is NOT trail for 30 days.
Those 30 days is just a grace period for activation that has another
role to play. Microsoft will offer a full time limited product later
for trail use, but the RTM is NOT a trail product it is/will be a
purchasable product.

yes, thats next year. not right now.

Indeed and as a member of the general public you will have to wait to
buy a copy of Windows Vista until next year. The use of product
distributed by an unauthorised channel such as torrent (essentially a
pirated copy) et al is not a way to legitimately use a "paid for"
product.

 

[Adds]

if it is indeed illegal to have a copy of RTM on my machine WITHOUT an

illegally obtained cd key, does that still make it illegal? why have the
30 'free trial' activation period?

There is no 30 day free trial.

It simply gives you 30 days before you have to active your product. The
fact you can enter your product code at install time, or later, is neither
here or there.

Just because you can, doesn't mean it's leagal.

A.

 

[Mike Brannigan]

ok, screw this...... forget my 1st post.....

try this: is running RC2 key on RTM illegal?

Yes as you are using a paid for product without paying for it.

the 'trial' period is still active.

The RTM retail product does not have a trial period. The 30 day grace
period for activation is not a trail period.

if it is illegal why didnt MS block pre-RTM keys from working on RTM
release?

They did - you are using a cracked illegal pirated copy you probably
got from torrent or elsewhere. Which goes none functional at the end
of the RC2 period anyway, or maybe your pirate friends on torrent
forgot to mention that.

if it is indeed illegal to have a copy of RTM on my machine WITHOUT
an illegally obtained cd key, does that still make it illegal?

If you actually meant "a copy of RTM on a machine without a legally
obtained key" - then yes you are using pirated software in that you
have not paid for a product that requires payment to receive a license
to use the product.

why have the 30 'free trial' activation period?

See above the RTM 30 day activation grace period is NOT a trail
period.

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

FYI - All those current illegal "Windows Vista RTM" downloads are
not the "retail version", but the "volume license" version of Vista.
Since Microsoft only sells "retail version" licenses (Product Keys),
they will not work with the illegal "volume license" downloads
of Vista. Retail product keys for Vista will not be available until
January 30, 2007.

In other words, if your intent is to download Windows Vista RTM
from an unauthorized web site, and plan on purchasing a retail product
key in the future, that product key will not work at all. A prudent
person would wait until the retail version of Windows Vista becomes
available so you have the correct and genuine installation CD.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| no i'm not. re-read my post. i clearly state i am not RUNNING the software.
| like i said before, you purchase the same disc as everyone else. it's
| the product key that is different, and that is what establishes if your
| running illegal or legit software. i dont have an RTM key. i only have
| the files.
|
| the ONLY key i posess is for RC2.
|
| do you guys work for MS or sommat? the 1st sign of "i've downloaded a
| torrent" and you jump to "OMG, he's runnign warez!!" it's just like
| typical windows-fanboy talk this is. you instantly think torrent =
| warez. newsflash..... not all torrents are *illegal*.
|
| a cd costs pence to make. are you telling me that the cost of windows is
| for the CD? your paying for the PRODUCT KEY of a peice of software. that
| product key activates the software.

 

[Tim Draper]

thanks for the info all......
just to clear it all up - i'm not running, and wont be installing this
torrented RTM release. i genuinely thought that using an RC2 key on RTM
was legal (since RC2 key has an expiry). obviously i was wrong.

this file is v6000, so it is a geniune release (or atleast, so it
claims). noneoftheless, this torrent i have has been deleted. and i'll
be sticking with RC2 untill it becomes available via cd/dvd.

tim