Routers

[Cal Vanize]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems
like regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished
loading. It slows down and then just stops communicating. It
telegraphs its failure.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and
forget about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then
to an 8 port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four
computers on it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.


Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

(BTW, I don't hold Charter Cable completely blameless, but others don't
seem to have the same frequency of problems.)

 

[kony]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems
like regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished
loading. It slows down and then just stops communicating. It
telegraphs its failure.

Might just be overheating, try popping the lid off and
pointing a fan at it. If that helps, consider leaving the
lid off or maybe drilling a lot of holes in the lid to
improve passive ventilation.

Also try updating the firmware if the manufacturer provides
an update.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and
forget about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then
to an 8 port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four
computers on it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Frankly, any router is supposed to do this. Anything made
in the last few years at least, though today with cable
internet often exceeding 7+Mbps speeds, at least a router
new enough to have a 10Mb WAN port is a good idea. Some
"10/100" types that are older only have 10/100 on the
switched ports but still 10Mb WAN port.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.

IMO, you might as well get one with wifi built in. At
worst, it is allowing better connectivity since you can
locate the wifi access point further away for better
coverage.

Linksys WRT54GL, not WRT54G or WRT(SL?)54GS. Very popular
product with a large userbase, and if you ever get the
desire to have more features than you could ever need, it
becomes even more versatile when flashed with a 3rd party
firmware like DD-WRT (But it isn't necessary for what little
you have described about your typical needs).

Even then, with any passively cooled router some attention
may be needed toward orientation and ambient temperature.
Newegg is a great place to buy most things, and they have a
rebate right now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...24190&CMP=KAC-GoogleAdwordsSKU&ATT=Networking

 

[Ken Maltby]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems like
regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished loading.
It slows down and then just stops communicating. It telegraphs its
failure.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and forget
about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then to an 8
port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four computers on
it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.


Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

(BTW, I don't hold Charter Cable completely blameless, but others don't
seem to have the same frequency of problems.)

Funny, my BEFSR41 has been rock solid for years now.
I have it connected to a Zoom DSL X6 (5590), and a
SMC8508T; that connects everything else together. The
DSL modem has a router and wireless, but I have those
features turned off.

With the Gigabit switch I would guess you have only that
off your router, right? The only other connection being the
WAN to your modem.

Maybe you are trying to have the modem do some of
the same functions as your router, you might check for
that.

Luck;
Ken

 

[Ken Maltby]

Might just be overheating, try popping the lid off and
pointing a fan at it. If that helps, consider leaving the
lid off or maybe drilling a lot of holes in the lid to
improve passive ventilation.

Also try updating the firmware if the manufacturer provides
an update.


Frankly, any router is supposed to do this. Anything made
in the last few years at least, though today with cable
internet often exceeding 7+Mbps speeds, at least a router
new enough to have a 10Mb WAN port is a good idea. Some
"10/100" types that are older only have 10/100 on the
switched ports but still 10Mb WAN port.


IMO, you might as well get one with wifi built in. At
worst, it is allowing better connectivity since you can
locate the wifi access point further away for better
coverage.

Linksys WRT54GL, not WRT54G or WRT(SL?)54GS. Very popular
product with a large userbase, and if you ever get the
desire to have more features than you could ever need, it
becomes even more versatile when flashed with a 3rd party
firmware like DD-WRT (But it isn't necessary for what little
you have described about your typical needs).

Even then, with any passively cooled router some attention
may be needed toward orientation and ambient temperature.
Newegg is a great place to buy most things, and they have a
rebate right now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...24190&CMP=KAC-GoogleAdwordsSKU&ATT=Networking

Kony's advice is usually very good, but he seems to see heat
issues as the most likely cause of any computer problem.
So much so, that I have the feeling that he is posting from a
very hot place, one where people aren't allowed icewater,
perhaps.

Luck;
Ken

 

[kony]

Kony's advice is usually very good, but he seems to see heat
issues as the most likely cause of any computer problem.

No, look over my posts. Bet you can't find 1 in 10 where I
suggested the problem was overheating, probably not even 1
in 50.

However in this case, being that in the US it is summertime
and many regions are seeing post-100 degree temps, combined
with many of today's ever-smaller routers with only passive
ventilation and small slits to keep the cases esthetically
pleasing and even no heatsink on the processor, many do run
VERY warm.

So much so, that I have the feeling that he is posting from a
very hot place, one where people aren't allowed icewater,
perhaps.

Instead of pretending I know something as you did, I
suggested a way to attempt to isolate this potential issue
with opening it and pointing a fan at it. Wouldn't you look
foolish if it did turn out to be running too hot?
Scientific method requires more than just trolling by, it
requires some experimentation.

 

[kony]

Funny, my BEFSR41 has been rock solid for years now.
I have it connected to a Zoom DSL X6 (5590), and a
SMC8508T; that connects everything else together. The
DSL modem has a router and wireless, but I have those
features turned off.

With the Gigabit switch I would guess you have only that
off your router, right? The only other connection being the
WAN to your modem.

Maybe you are trying to have the modem do some of
the same functions as your router, you might check for
that.

If the network as configured remains static, and the router
has to be reset which then causes it to work correctly
again, this has nothing to do with it being connected to a
gigabit switch, a connection to a modem, or what the modem
is doing.

If the only thing the OP changes is to reset or power cycle
the router, it is obviously the problem. Reduction of
variables?

You have one sample that works fine. OP has one that
doesn't. This is potentially a 50% failure rate, not a
justification to argue that because yours is ok that every
specimen everywhere (even in dissimilar environments) must
also work fine.

The same goes for any hardware, I'll bet that at some point
you had something, probably many things, whether it be a
computer or washing machine or whatever, that failed when
someone else didn't have theirs fail (yet).

 

[kony]

Instead of pretending I know something as you did, I
suggested a way to attempt to isolate this potential issue
with opening it and pointing a fan at it. Wouldn't you look
foolish if it did turn out to be running too hot?
Scientific method requires more than just trolling by, it
requires some experimentation.

Also, unless it has what are known to be defective
capacitors, having a capacitor failure is also a symptom of
running too hot. Have you ever recapped (replaced any
capacitors in) routers? I have. Tell those vented caps
they weren't vented, I'm sure it will matter.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip moaning about router disturbance on update ...

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but
I'm willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability.
I have reasonable technical skills.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Install Ubuntu (Linux). Free.

 

[Cal Vanize]

If the network as configured remains static, and the router
has to be reset which then causes it to work correctly
again, this has nothing to do with it being connected to a
gigabit switch, a connection to a modem, or what the modem
is doing.

If the only thing the OP changes is to reset or power cycle
the router, it is obviously the problem. Reduction of
variables?

You have one sample that works fine. OP has one that
doesn't. This is potentially a 50% failure rate, not a
justification to argue that because yours is ok that every
specimen everywhere (even in dissimilar environments) must
also work fine.

The same goes for any hardware, I'll bet that at some point
you had something, probably many things, whether it be a
computer or washing machine or whatever, that failed when
someone else didn't have theirs fail (yet).

The router and switch are both in a cool environment and feel relatively
cool to the touch. Its as if the router software just gives up after a
given amount of time and the system needs a reboot.

The router and switch are on the same UPS unit. The biggest frustration
occurs when I'm out of town and the router crashes. My wife is
technically savvy enough to reset the router, but its a PITA since she
telecommutes.

The "wiring closet" is a corner basement office of a large two story
house. We have wireless computers on the first and second floor on the
far side of the house. Wired computers on the first floor and basement.
The A/P (Linksys WAP54G) is located close enough to the four or five
wireless computers so that they have good signal. I'm not sure using a
wireless router would provide adequate signal to these computers, but
I'll try it. Maybe a wireless router might be the way to go.

As I said (or at least implied), I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

 

[Cal Vanize]

Also, unless it has what are known to be defective
capacitors, having a capacitor failure is also a symptom of
running too hot. Have you ever recapped (replaced any
capacitors in) routers? I have. Tell those vented caps
they weren't vented, I'm sure it will matter.

Interesting thought. Never had an electrolytic cap fail in equipment
less then 30 years old. But the router has never run hot nor has it
been in a warm environment.

 

[kony]

Interesting thought. Never had an electrolytic cap fail in equipment
less then 30 years old. But the router has never run hot nor has it
been in a warm environment.

Cap failure in old equipment is not as common for a few
reasons. Years ago, equipment used higher voltage, lower
current (density). Years ago, equipment was more likely
built with more tantalum caps instead of electrolytic.
Years ago the same equipment (functionality) was in much
larger cases, also decreasing heat density and increasing #
of slits/holes/etc in a casing (if it were passive at all,
much very old routing gear did have fans) without the
resulting holes making it look like swiss cheese.

Today most consumer equipment, whether it costs alot due to
technologically perceived value or not, is not built so
well. Intel, 3Com and Cisco still tend to make better gear,
though I can't say I have seen all of these brands low end
contemporary gear to be sure this is a consistent trend.
Linksys' relation to Cisco does not correlate to a
distinctly higher quality product in that regard. That's
not meant to be a strike against Linksys, they have to be
competitive in a market like everyone else and that includes
component costs when designing a product.

If your router does not even feel warm to the touch on the
casing top, it does seem unlikely to be a heat related
issue. I hate to play the odds though on what is "likely"
and not though, while taking the cover off and pointing a
fan at it is not only going to defintely lower the operating
temp, it will also expose the PCB so you can see if there
are any vented capacitors. Even caps normally considered
good, don't necessarily have a 100% achievement of expected
lifespan until expected failure, rate.

Since Ken has had success with his, it would be good to find
out more about his configuration. For example the firmware
version he runs, the revision of PCB his is using (if
known), and any other potential variables.

Nevertheless, at some point it has to be seen that time is
worth money (or too much time on it and you start to get
some grey hairs from dealing with it at least). If your
router has served you for a number of years already, it may
just be at end of life, sometimes no matter how great a
product was when working, when it fails it is not so
time-effective to try to understand why it failed if there
is not an easy resolution/resuscitation that follows, rather
than just replacing it.

Previously I linked what many deem a desirable router in the
WRT54GL, but it is also a little more expensive than the
average router. These days, routers are available for about
$0 to $20 after a rebate in the US. If it turns out to be
junk and it takes a time or two to try a different router,
the cost is not high but the question is really how much
frustration and downtime you can tolerate from this network
being intermittently disconnected.

Previously I made a comment about if your ISP had 10Mbps
download speeds, that it would be important to have 10Mb
router WAN port. I wrote that in error, I was actually
thinking that this made it beneficial to have a router with
100Mb WAN port instead of 10Mb, as the peak speeds do tend
to bottleneck a 10Mb WAN port when the ISP plan potentially
allows for up to 10Mbps. Recently on a site I experienced
just this problem, the router kept benchmarks from reaching
beyond about 7.5Mbps because of a 10Mb WAN limitation and
after swapping in a 100Mb WAN capable router the benchmarks
reached about 11Mbps.

 

[kony]

The router and switch are both in a cool environment and feel relatively
cool to the touch. Its as if the router software just gives up after a
given amount of time and the system needs a reboot.

The router and switch are on the same UPS unit. The biggest frustration
occurs when I'm out of town and the router crashes. My wife is
technically savvy enough to reset the router, but its a PITA since she
telecommutes.

The "wiring closet" is a corner basement office of a large two story
house. We have wireless computers on the first and second floor on the
far side of the house. Wired computers on the first floor and basement.
The A/P (Linksys WAP54G) is located close enough to the four or five
wireless computers so that they have good signal. I'm not sure using a
wireless router would provide adequate signal to these computers, but
I'll try it. Maybe a wireless router might be the way to go.

As I said (or at least implied), I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I'm not suggesting you replace the access point with the
wireless router, rather that the wireless router is a second
potential "access point", that it suppliments your existing
wifi network capabilities.

 

[Yes Baby]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems like
regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished loading.
It slows down and then just stops communicating. It telegraphs its
failure.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and forget
about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then to an 8
port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four computers on
it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.


Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

(BTW, I don't hold Charter Cable completely blameless, but others don't
seem to have the same frequency of problems.)

let the egspurts battle it out............... I say just get another
make/model they are cheap.

 

[Paul]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems
like regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished
loading. It slows down and then just stops communicating. It
telegraphs its failure.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and
forget about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then
to an 8 port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four
computers on it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.


Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

(BTW, I don't hold Charter Cable completely blameless, but others don't
seem to have the same frequency of problems.)

This one has nice bright blue LEDs

http://www.npes.ilc.edu.tw/Department/Information/images/dlink.JPG

Seems to have decent reviews and is currently out of stock.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833127060

Paul

 

[Mike Walsh]

I had similar problems with a D-Link router. I finally gave up after a replacement did the same thing. I now use a Buffalo WHR-G54S. It is 10% to 15% faster than the D-Link on wireless and has worked flawlessly.

 

[Ken Maltby]

This one has nice bright blue LEDs

http://www.npes.ilc.edu.tw/Department/Information/images/dlink.JPG

Seems to have decent reviews and is currently out of stock.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833127060

Paul

Actually this provides a good example of the problem of trying
to advise people. 150 people think it is perfect, but ~15 people
think it's junk. They all got the same product from the same
vendor, and most really liked it but there are still some that had
problems. With even the best liked, most reliable product there
will be some that won't work out for some people.

All we posters can do is provide our own experience to the
discussion, when it comes to reliability/performance.

Perhaps our examples of equipment that is working can
provide some hope, it should not be taken to mean that
anyone else will have the exact same result if they were to
get the same equipment/software. The "my setup works"
posts should show that it can be done, and sometimes
that's all we need to know. The "try this" type of post,
is based on much the same principal.

Luck;
Ken

 

[jameshanley39]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems
like regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished
loading. It slows down and then just stops communicating. It
telegraphs its failure.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and
forget about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then
to an 8 port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four
computers on it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

(BTW, I don't hold Charter Cable completely blameless, but others don't
seem to have the same frequency of problems.)

You're prob not from the UK. But people I know in the UK have had
problems with linksys routers needing resetting often. Maybe
overheating. I've had many problems with linksys, different ones,
despite people on the internet raving about them. The model of that
was BEFSR or something..

After about 1 year I had problems with a DLink one I had too. DSL
504. Nice geek friendly GUI, but the router/modem needed resetting
often.

After calling my isp, and discussing this issue with their tech team ,
i realised they were aware of such problem with routers, and asked
what their experiences had been with other routers. They said they
recommended Speedtouch they also sell it, and currently almost only
it. (note, i have a speedtouch, holes are on the bottom, so , i run
it upside down. Also, as with a laptop, don't run it on the carpet).
See what zen.co.uk sell. The router's user interface isn't geek
friendly though. But it works. I use it from time to time. And I have
basically configured it and forgotton about it. It has a CLI too. And
zen link to thompson who have a long manual for the CLI.

Besides speedtouch, i'm aware of a big company that uses Zyxel
routers. They may be reliable.

The problem is that in both these cases, the routers i've used, are
router/modems. But i'm sure these makes also make routers with a
socket labelled WAN - for your cable modem.

Also, a techie I know that had bad experiences with linksys, now
swears by 3com. It may be worth giving the a look.

So, speedtouch, 3com, zyxel. i think that's a safe order!

 

[Mac Cool]

I have a D-Link 524. Rock solid, no problems, I've never needed to reset
it since I've owned, a year or two, I don't remember exactly.

 

[Gary]

I have a D-Link 524. Rock solid, no problems, I've never needed to reset
it since I've owned, a year or two, I don't remember exactly.

For me the D-Link DIR-655 has worked flawlessly for me. Lots of great
configuration features. Better than any other I have owned and there have
been a few.

 

[Cal Vanize]

I'm really getting tired of having to periodically reset my router
(Linksys BEFSR11 with the latest software updates I can get). Seems
like regardless of the stability of the rest of the network, the router
crashes. Seems to happen when there are several active browser windows
open and someone in the house closes a window before its finished
loading. It slows down and then just stops communicating. It
telegraphs its failure.

So I'm looking for a router. Simple. Just a router that will be
reliable. Just a router that doesn't need to be reset every couple of
days (or more often). Just a router than I can configure once and
forget about. A router that will plug into the WAN cable modem and then
to an 8 port Gigabit switch with a wireless access point (up to four
computers on it) and three or four others hardwired to the switch.

Nothing fancy, just RELIABLE. Not completely "Cost no object" but I'm
willing to spend enough (up to maybe $150US) to get reliability. I have
reasonable technical skills.


Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

(BTW, I don't hold Charter Cable completely blameless, but others don't
seem to have the same frequency of problems.)

Is it worthwhile to look at a Cisco 831 to address the reliability
issues? A number of them available (including a few new ones) for under
$150US.