Random reboots every so often

[Joe Starin]

Hello, group. Just upgraded from ME to XP Home on an older Dell 4300,
1.6MHz. Every so often, the PC just shuts off and reboots, usually after the
PC has been on for a while. Reboot is unpredictable and quite infrequent,
but serious since everything shuts down without warning. Had the box open --
fans appear to be working, so heat should not be an issue. Error message
says it's a display (or device) driver, but I have the latest nVidia display
driver installed. And the nVidia Web site claims that "Windows will often
[incorrectly] report the graphics card or its drivers as the problematic
device after a system error." Video card is an nVidia GeForce2 MX 400.

Other recent changes include adding two sticks of generic 512 RAM for a
total of 1024. RAM is recognized and seems to work well. Someone told me to
test the RAM with the free SimTester (and nine quick tests "passed"), but
the testing seems to hang.

nVidia Web site also said to "first check that your motherboard chipset
drivers are up to date." Motherboard chipset is an Intel Brookdale i845. So,
when I check the Intel site for the appropriate motherboard chipset drivers,
I'm given nine choices to download (some drivers are only for developers,
others are not to be used if a third-party graphics card is installed, etc.)
and get totally confused. CPU is GenuineIntel 1586.

Any thoughts on what I should do? I'm throwing this one to the experts and
would greatly appreciate any sound advice.

Joe Starin

 

[Roberto]

Hello, group. Just upgraded from ME to XP Home on an older Dell 4300,
1.6MHz. Every so often, the PC just shuts off and reboots, usually after
the PC has been on for a while. Reboot is unpredictable and quite
infrequent, but serious since everything shuts down without warning. Had
the box open -- fans appear to be working, so heat should not be an
issue. Error message says it's a display (or device) driver, but I have
the latest nVidia display driver installed. And the nVidia Web site claims
that "Windows will often [incorrectly] report the graphics card or its
drivers as the problematic device after a system error." Video card is an
nVidia GeForce2 MX 400.

Other recent changes include adding two sticks of generic 512 RAM for a
total of 1024. RAM is recognized and seems to work well. Someone told me
to test the RAM with the free SimTester (and nine quick tests "passed"),
but the testing seems to hang.

nVidia Web site also said to "first check that your motherboard chipset
drivers are up to date." Motherboard chipset is an Intel Brookdale i845.
So, when I check the Intel site for the appropriate motherboard chipset
drivers, I'm given nine choices to download (some drivers are only for
developers, others are not to be used if a third-party graphics card is
installed, etc.) and get totally confused. CPU is GenuineIntel 1586.

Any thoughts on what I should do? I'm throwing this one to the experts and
would greatly appreciate any sound advice.

Joe Starin

If you remove the new RAM does the problem go away ? if not
I would start by retesting the RAM with memtest86 www.memtest86.com
If all is OK consider swapping out your power supply, make sure it
is Intel /AMD approved, 350watt or better .

rgds
Roberto

 

[Guest]

Joe,

First, did you by it from UBid? Just asking because I just bought four from
them in the exact same configuration. Great machines at a great price, $179.

Anyways, to your problem. If you loaded the latest nVidia driver, uninstall
it and try again. It gave me problems on all four machines. Use the XP
driver instead.

Let me know how it goes.

 

[Guest]

remove the new memory sticks you've just added. dell is notorious for not
being able to add new memory. i own a dell 8200, had exactly the same issue
as you. problem will dissapear when you remove the new memory sticks. has
nothing to do with drivers, viruses, etc. hopefully you can still get your
money back for the memory.

 

[Rock]

Hello, group. Just upgraded from ME to XP Home on an older Dell 4300,
1.6MHz. Every so often, the PC just shuts off and reboots, usually after the
PC has been on for a while. Reboot is unpredictable and quite infrequent,
but serious since everything shuts down without warning. Had the box open --
fans appear to be working, so heat should not be an issue. Error message
says it's a display (or device) driver, but I have the latest nVidia display
driver installed. And the nVidia Web site claims that "Windows will often
[incorrectly] report the graphics card or its drivers as the problematic
device after a system error." Video card is an nVidia GeForce2 MX 400.

Other recent changes include adding two sticks of generic 512 RAM for a
total of 1024. RAM is recognized and seems to work well. Someone told me to
test the RAM with the free SimTester (and nine quick tests "passed"), but
the testing seems to hang.

nVidia Web site also said to "first check that your motherboard chipset
drivers are up to date." Motherboard chipset is an Intel Brookdale i845. So,
when I check the Intel site for the appropriate motherboard chipset drivers,
I'm given nine choices to download (some drivers are only for developers,
others are not to be used if a third-party graphics card is installed, etc.)
and get totally confused. CPU is GenuineIntel 1586.

Any thoughts on what I should do? I'm throwing this one to the experts and
would greatly appreciate any sound advice.

Joe Starin

Random shutdowns such as you're experiencing are usually due to hardware
problems. Start with the RAM. Try it with just one stick, and test
each stick separately. XP is sensitive to mismatched RAM. I see you
already tested the RAM with one program, but it's not clear what you
mean by "the testing seems to hang". You can also try testing the RAM
with these two programs. Let it run for multiple passes.

Memtest86+
http://www.memtest.org/

Windows Memory Diagnostic
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

Even though each stick passes the memory tests doesn't mean that XP will
like the two of them together.

 

[Chris G.]

Hello, group. Just upgraded from ME to XP Home on an older Dell 4300,
1.6MHz. Every so often, the PC just shuts off and reboots, usually after
the PC has been on for a while. Reboot is unpredictable and quite
infrequent, but serious since everything shuts down without warning. Had
the box open -- fans appear to be working, so heat should not be an
issue.

Heat could well be an issue - dust stuck in the heatsinks themselves, inside
the PSU, on the motherboard, et cetera. I've suffered from this myself. Keep
the PC plugged in, but turn it off of course, then use the soft brush
attachment to vacuum any dust away; attack heatsinks from the sides if
possible.

 

[Joe Starin]

Thanks to all for the great advice. Let me respond to everyone in one
post....

I introduced both 512 sticks one at a time, swapped them out, and left each
in for approx five days. No problems. The problem SEEMS to be when I use
both 512s together, as you suggested. I will try memtest86 -- simtester ran
nine quick tests, then the PC froze, and I could not even hit escape to back
out, had to hard reboot.

The RAM was purchsed on eBay from a seller with a very-high feedback rating.
$39 for a stick of PC133 512. I read some of the seller's feedback and
people seemed very pleased with the memory he was selling.

Regarding the display driver -- I can redownload/reinstall the driver from
nVidia. It's nVidia's most current 32-bit driver number 84.x.x (I'm on a
different machine and don't have exact number). Is this driver too new for
my 4-year-old video card?

If I heard you correctly, another option would be to delete that driver and
let Windows install its own driver, right? Generic driver? Where would
Windows find that driver? On the disc?

Thanks again.

Joe Starin

occurs when I use both 512 together. one at a timetriuduced A feklk for the
reat

Hello, group. Just upgraded from ME to XP Home on an older Dell 4300,
1.6MHz. Every so often, the PC just shuts off and reboots, usually after
the PC has been on for a while. Reboot is unpredictable and quite
infrequent, but serious since everything shuts down without warning. Had
the box open -- fans appear to be working, so heat should not be an
issue. Error message says it's a display (or device) driver, but I have
the latest nVidia display driver installed. And the nVidia Web site
claims that "Windows will often [incorrectly] report the graphics card or
its drivers as the problematic device after a system error." Video card
is an nVidia GeForce2 MX 400.

Other recent changes include adding two sticks of generic 512 RAM for a
total of 1024. RAM is recognized and seems to work well. Someone told me
to test the RAM with the free SimTester (and nine quick tests "passed"),
but the testing seems to hang.

nVidia Web site also said to "first check that your motherboard chipset
drivers are up to date." Motherboard chipset is an Intel Brookdale i845.
So, when I check the Intel site for the appropriate motherboard chipset
drivers, I'm given nine choices to download (some drivers are only for
developers, others are not to be used if a third-party graphics card is
installed, etc.) and get totally confused. CPU is GenuineIntel 1586.

Any thoughts on what I should do? I'm throwing this one to the experts
and would greatly appreciate any sound advice.

Joe Starin

Random shutdowns such as you're experiencing are usually due to hardware
problems. Start with the RAM. Try it with just one stick, and test each
stick separately. XP is sensitive to mismatched RAM. I see you already
tested the RAM with one program, but it's not clear what you mean by "the
testing seems to hang". You can also try testing the RAM with these two
programs. Let it run for multiple passes.

Memtest86+
http://www.memtest.org/

Windows Memory Diagnostic
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

Even though each stick passes the memory tests doesn't mean that XP will
like the two of them together.

 

[Joe Starin]

The PC is clean inside -- just vacuumed when I swapped the RAM.

But, today I tested the 512+512 RAM combo today with a Windows Memory
Diagnostic boot disk, as suggested earlier in this thread. Ran the extended
test. Found 108 errors (Stride38),
Slot DIMM_A. I'm guessing one of the sticks is bad -- the RAM in slot A,
whichever one that is. Also replaced the latest 84.21 nVidia display driver
with an older known 100% bug-free nVidia 44.03. That's where I am so far.

Anyone know which memory slot is "A" on a Dell Dimension 4300? If I'm going
to replace a stick of RAM, I want to make sure I remove the one that created
the errors. Thanks, again to all

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

The PC is clean inside -- just vacuumed when I swapped the RAM.

For the future, avoid using a vacuum cleaner on the inside of a PC. Because
if the risk of static electtricty, it is a very dangerous thing to do. You
can easily destroy the motherboard this way. This may otr may not be related
to your problem, but vacuuming is a risky thing to do.

Instead use a can of compressed air to blow dirt out of the case.

 

[Chris G.]

For the future, avoid using a vacuum cleaner on the inside of a PC.
Because if the risk of static electtricty, it is a very dangerous thing to
do. You can easily destroy the motherboard this way. This may otr may not
be related to your problem, but vacuuming is a risky thing to do.

Instead use a can of compressed air to blow dirt out of the case.

Hmm. I've been vacuuming PCs for donkey's years without any problems, but
your advice is good; besides, compressed air is more fun than
vacuum-cleaners ;-)

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Hmm. I've been vacuuming PCs for donkey's years without any problems,

Yes, many people often do get away with it. If you are very creul not to
touch anything with the nozzle, you can't do any damage. Nevertheless it
*is* a very risky thing thing to do.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Yes, many people often do get away with it. If you are very creul

Sometimes even I am amazed by my typos. I have no idea how I went from the
intended "careful" to "creul," but I somehow did. Sorry for any confusion it
may haved caused.

 

[Talahasee]

That's like saying, "Well, I've been lighting up and smoking
my cigarettes while pumping gas into my car for YEARS! I
haven't set fire to myself or blown myself up YET!"

"Don't press your luck!"

I continue to see people at my corner gas station smoke
while they pump.

But not 6 months ago, some 5 miles away (in West Seattle),
the gas station clerk was headed out to tell someone they
shouldn't be smoking and pumping gas when the whole station
went up in a ball of flame.

MIRACULOUSLY, only the stupid guy who was smoking was
burned, and the gas station clerk managed to grab the local
fire extinguisher and put out MOST of the fire while another
customer rang 9-1-1 on his cell phone.

"Just because you've gotten away with stupidity for years is
not a good reason to keep being stupid."

Yes, many people often do get away with it. If you are very creul not to

I believe you meant to say, "... If you are very CAREFUL not
to touch anything...."

touch anything with the nozzle, you can't do any damage. Nevertheless it
*is* a very risky thing thing to do.

Yep! Like the afore-mentioned smoking while pumping gas.


It's equally stupid for the passenger to be smoking while
the driver is pumping.


Good luck!


Tallahassee

 

[Talahasee]

Sometimes even I am amazed by my typos. I have no idea how I went from the
intended "careful" to "creul," but I somehow did. Sorry for any confusion it
may haved caused.

I'd like to think that most people who are intelligent
enough to figure out how to use a computer and install XP
are bright enough to fill in your garbled word.




Good luck!


Tallahassee

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 08:30:21 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"


I'd like to think that most people who are intelligent
enough to figure out how to use a computer and install XP
are bright enough to fill in your garbled word.

Maybe, but when I do as extreme an example of garbling as I did this time, I
feel safer clarifying it.

 

[Joe Starin]

Excellent point on the vacuuming. I usually use a small detailing brush to
stir up the dust, then use the vacuum nozzle (held slightly above the
component) to take it away. I'll certainly grab a can of compressed air,
however, and take no further chances. I don't suspect I've harmed anything.
As the thread notes, I infrequently get an unannounced crash, then quick
reboot -- happened after I swapped RAM sticks and installed the mnost
current nVidia driver (which I then uninstalled and went to an earlier,
"100% bug-free" version from a few years ago -- v44.03. Error message blamed
a display device driver. But, everything has been as smooth as can be for
the past four days. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Joe Starin

 

[Mike Fields]

That's like saying, "Well, I've been lighting up and smoking
my cigarettes while pumping gas into my car for YEARS! I
haven't set fire to myself or blown myself up YET!"

"Don't press your luck!"

I continue to see people at my corner gas station smoke
while they pump.

But not 6 months ago, some 5 miles away (in West Seattle),
the gas station clerk was headed out to tell someone they
shouldn't be smoking and pumping gas when the whole station
went up in a ball of flame.

MIRACULOUSLY, only the stupid guy who was smoking was
burned, and the gas station clerk managed to grab the local
fire extinguisher and put out MOST of the fire while another
customer rang 9-1-1 on his cell phone.

"Just because you've gotten away with stupidity for years is
not a good reason to keep being stupid."
[snipped]
Tallahassee

Another person in my area ! (I'm in Kirkland). The danger
with the vacuum is when stuff starts moving through the hose,
it can generate a tremendous amount of static electricity (if
you do any reading on dust collection systems, you will find
lots of information on making sure you have grounding wires
in the hoses etc.). You can easily get enough static build
up to get a significant shock -- if that jumps to one of the
chips on the motherboard, it is "toast". Best plan is to use
the compressed air (outside) and try to avoid breathing the
dust you blow out.

mikey

 

[Chris G.]

<snip>

Despite your having made a point, I have to say that you really are way too
holier-than-though.

Consider your tone and those you direct it towards before you answer a post.

With that in mind: you ****ing twat.