Radeon 9600 or 9600 Pro for MCE 2005?

[Tiny Tim]

I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down to
noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
overclocking headroom, if neede.

I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing from
a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably accept
some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro card when
used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit of
noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope for
near silence.

Thanks for any feedback

 

[Iain Dingsdale]

I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down
to noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the
9600 Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds
and is therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
overclocking headroom, if neede.

I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing
from a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably
accept some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro
card when used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I
guess a bit of noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use
I would hope for near silence.

Thanks for any feedback

you wont need the pro if you arent gaming, but if you are then you'll want
the pro. why not get the best of both worlds and get the pro and one of
these?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Zalman.html
very bottom of the list.
so its costing you another 25 quid, but for the performance plus
silentness....

 

[Tiny Tim]

you wont need the pro if you arent gaming, but if you are then you'll
want the pro. why not get the best of both worlds and get the pro and
one of these?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Zalman.html
very bottom of the list.
so its costing you another 25 quid, but for the performance plus
silentness....

The gaming thing is exactly my dilemma. When I first started planning this I
had no interest in using the machine for gaming, as I am quite happy with my
Xbox and collection of 30 games to date and growing. But when I saw Half
Life 2 on a gaming programme I really began to wonder whether I might at
least like the option to play PC games, albeit at only at 800*600 on my TV.
I do not want a monitor in the setup other than for the initial build and
any BIOS or debug work so until I can afford a nice big HD flat panel
display a TV screen is all that I'll be using if I game at all.

I also don't know how much room I will have in the Shuttle case to fit a
Zalman cooler. The bits haven't arrived yet and I have never seen a Shuttle
in the flesh but it looks like the Zalman will add a lot to the width of the
card - maybe too much to squeeze in next to the tuner card.

 

[Champ]

I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down to
noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
overclocking headroom, if neede.

What model Shuttle is it? The ones designed for media centre use have
pretty good graphics on board already, and the only reason for
installing a high end GPU would be to run games. And, as you
correctly say, the extra heat will require extra cooling = extra
noise.

I'm just building (haven't actually got the bits yet) a Shuttle MCE
system, based on the ST62K Zen - according to the blurb it has
- integrated ATI RADEON 9100 based 2D/3D graphics core
- fully support DirectX 8.1
- shared Memory max. 128MB
- with TV out support PAL and NTSC systems

I don't see the need for a GPU there...
--
Champ
I don't know, but I've been told, never slow down, you never grow old
GSX-R 1000, GPz 750 turbo, ZX7RR Endurance Racer x 2
GYASB#0 BotToS#2 BOTAFO(T|F)#35 WG*#1 DFV#8
Team UKRM Racing : www.team-ukrm.com

 

[Tiny Tim]

What model Shuttle is it? The ones designed for media centre use have
pretty good graphics on board already, and the only reason for
installing a high end GPU would be to run games. And, as you
correctly say, the extra heat will require extra cooling = extra
noise.

I'm just building (haven't actually got the bits yet) a Shuttle MCE
system, based on the ST62K Zen - according to the blurb it has
- integrated ATI RADEON 9100 based 2D/3D graphics core
- fully support DirectX 8.1
- shared Memory max. 128MB
- with TV out support PAL and NTSC systems

I don't see the need for a GPU there...

I've chosen an SN95G5 which takes an Athlon 64 Skt939 CPU as I wanted
something a bit more future proof and with options to expand use beyond just
TV/Video and music, including possibly gaming. There are no on board
graphics in that SFF. I also wanted the higher performance but lower power
consumption of the Athon 64 90nm chip vs the Pentiums.

I know there are certainly cheaper options but Intel just does not appeal
and I want to look forward to what 64 bit computing has to offer in the
future.

 

[QP]

I just got done building a Shuttle SB65G2 with MCE 2005 and I used the
Sapphire 9600... better without the fan and plenty powerful enuf.

Auggie

 

[Iain Dingsdale]

The gaming thing is exactly my dilemma. When I first started planning this
I had no interest in using the machine for gaming, as I am quite happy
with my Xbox and collection of 30 games to date and growing. But when I
saw Half Life 2 on a gaming programme I really began to wonder whether I
might at least like the option to play PC games, albeit at only at 800*600
on my TV. I do not want a monitor in the setup other than for the initial
build and any BIOS or debug work so until I can afford a nice big HD flat
panel display a TV screen is all that I'll be using if I game at all.

I also don't know how much room I will have in the Shuttle case to fit a
Zalman cooler. The bits haven't arrived yet and I have never seen a
Shuttle in the flesh but it looks like the Zalman will add a lot to the
width of the card - maybe too much to squeeze in next to the tuner card.

god thats a good point, my mate has a shuttle with a 9600 pro and a TV
tuner. the tuner part of the card is about 2 mil away from the 9600 :S
best bet might be a more conventional silent fan

 

[John Smith]

I just got done building a Shuttle SB65G2 with MCE 2005 and I used the
Sapphire 9600... better without the fan and plenty powerful enuf.

Auggie

Go for the fanless one - the whole point of a MCE is they are supposed to be
in the living room and QUIET.

 

[Duddits]

I've ordered all the bits to build my own MCE 2005 Shuttle with the sole
exception of the graphics card. I have narrowed the choice down to the
Sapphire Radeon 9600 or the Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage. Pricewise
the difference is too small to worry about so the decision all comes down to
noise vs performance. The plain 9600 is passively cooled, whereas the 9600
Pro has a small fan. The Pro has higher GPU and memory clock speeds and is
therefore faster. I guess the fan also contributes towards better
overclocking headroom, if neede.

I like the idea of the quicker card but only if the noise levels are going
to be bearable for an MCE machine in a tightly packed Shuttle casing. The
reviews I have found say the fan is not too noisy but they are viewing from
a gaming perspective rather than an MCE perspective so would probably accept
some noise. Can anyone comment on the noise levels from the Pro card when
used for music, photos, video/DVD or gaming? If gaming then I guess a bit of
noise will be tollerable whereas for all other types of use I would hope for
near silence.

Thanks for any feedback

Get the 9600 128-bit card like the one here:
http://tinyurl.com/5ot8o

regards

Dud

 

[Tiny Tim]

Get the 9600 128-bit card like the one here:
http://tinyurl.com/5ot8o

regards

Dud

Thanks for the replies everyone. Unfortunately the Rosewill brand does not
appear to be available in the UK.

It seems the Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 128MB Ultimate will give me the
performance and silence I require as it is a fanless 9600XT card. The
problem I now need to resolve is whether it will fit in the SN95G5 case and
leave enough space to stick a Hauppauge Win-PVR-150-MCE in the PCI slot.
I've seen a few reports that the card will fit the Shuttle OK but no mention
of whether the PCI slot remains clear. There are some dimensions for the
card here....

http://www.sapphiretech.com/broschure/ult-dimension.pdf

But as the Shuttle does not arrive till Tuesday I cannot tell whether I will
have enough room. I've fired off a query to Shuttle but if anyone else knows
the answer I'd like to order my GFX card pronto so that it arrive on Tuesday
in time to fit to the rest of the bits.

Thanks,
Tim.

 

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

problem I now need to resolve is whether it will fit in the SN95G5 case and
leave enough space to stick a Hauppauge Win-PVR-150-MCE in the PCI slot.
I've seen a few reports that the card will fit the Shuttle OK but no mention
of whether the PCI slot remains clear. There are some dimensions for the
card here....

http://www.sapphiretech.com/broschure/ult-dimension.pdf

That looks very like the Zalman fanless heatsink mentioned earlier...

I've got one of those wrapped round my own 9600pro, and I can tell you
that if the AGP and PCI are side by side in the SN95G5, you will _not_
fit a PCI card in as well. The whole next slot is taken by heatsink
(top one in your pic).

I'd be mildly surprised if it fits in the Shuttle at all, even by
itself - I suspect that the back-side heatsink (bottom one on your
pic) would clash with the drive cage. I've not been in that model, but
the SN45G's I've built probably wouldn't take it without modification.
I've not got one here to test at the moment though.

The original fan I took off my 9600pro was a nasty whiny little thing,
too. No suggestions, apart from "play Xbox games instead". Sorry.

Cheers - Jaimie (happily enjoying HL2)

 

[Tiny Tim]

That looks very like the Zalman fanless heatsink mentioned earlier...

I've got one of those wrapped round my own 9600pro, and I can tell you
that if the AGP and PCI are side by side in the SN95G5, you will _not_
fit a PCI card in as well. The whole next slot is taken by heatsink
(top one in your pic).

I'd be mildly surprised if it fits in the Shuttle at all, even by
itself - I suspect that the back-side heatsink (bottom one on your
pic) would clash with the drive cage. I've not been in that model, but
the SN45G's I've built probably wouldn't take it without modification.
I've not got one here to test at the moment though.

The original fan I took off my 9600pro was a nasty whiny little thing,
too. No suggestions, apart from "play Xbox games instead". Sorry.

Cheers - Jaimie (happily enjoying HL2)

Reviews of the card say the heatsink is based on the Zalman but modified by
Sapphire. I looked things up on the Zalman site and of three variations of
the design there was only a warning against one that it would block the
adjacent slot. The problem is, as you've said, it *looks* like it won't fit,
but without actually trying it it's impossible to be sure. I guess I could
always order one and if it is no good return it and make do with the plain
old 9600 :-(

 

[kony]

Reviews of the card say the heatsink is based on the Zalman but modified by
Sapphire. I looked things up on the Zalman site and of three variations of
the design there was only a warning against one that it would block the
adjacent slot. The problem is, as you've said, it *looks* like it won't fit,
but without actually trying it it's impossible to be sure. I guess I could
always order one and if it is no good return it and make do with the plain
old 9600 :-(

Keep in mind that it's not necessarily only a matter of
whether it fits. Passive heatsinks such as those require a
fair amount of airflow, without which they'll just get
hotter and hotter. I can't presume to know what lengths
others are willing to go to but if it were my box what I'd
do is get the cheapest regular 9600 without the fancy
heatsink and add my own. By adding my own I'd be able to
choose a low RPM fan that's quiet, and make it just large
enough to do the job but small enough to not only fit, but
leave ample space around it such that it's recirculating as
little air as possible.

BUT, there might be other options. For example if this
vidcard is right next to another card, it might be possible
to epoxy a mounting bracket onto that other card to which a
fan is attached, allowing a larger heatsink on the video
card and a airflow path drawing fresh(er) air rather than
what's already pre-heated due to being in immediate vicinity
of the heatsink.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Keep in mind that it's not necessarily only a matter of
whether it fits. Passive heatsinks such as those require a
fair amount of airflow, without which they'll just get
hotter and hotter. I can't presume to know what lengths
others are willing to go to but if it were my box what I'd
do is get the cheapest regular 9600 without the fancy
heatsink and add my own. By adding my own I'd be able to
choose a low RPM fan that's quiet, and make it just large
enough to do the job but small enough to not only fit, but
leave ample space around it such that it's recirculating as
little air as possible.

BUT, there might be other options. For example if this
vidcard is right next to another card, it might be possible
to epoxy a mounting bracket onto that other card to which a
fan is attached, allowing a larger heatsink on the video
card and a airflow path drawing fresh(er) air rather than
what's already pre-heated due to being in immediate vicinity
of the heatsink.

OK, decision made. I am following the common advice given here and have now
ordered a regular Sapphire Radeon 9600 fanless card (not the XT Ultimate).
Thanks for all your input

Cheers,
Tim.

 

[Craig]

I just traded the ATI 9600SE card that I was using to the ATI 9550, due to
the advice of an ATI rep I ran into at a trade show. So far, I still have
no luck getting component output via the DVI adapter but the picture quality
is better and so far no black screen problem like i was having before
(fingers crossed on that one). The rep i talked to said that the 9550 with
double the ram at 256mb is a much better card than the 9600 and really
should have a higher numbering in the ATI line. after my experience, I
would agree. For $120 through newegg.com, its a better choice.

Craig

 

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

I just traded the ATI 9600SE card that I was using to the ATI 9550, due to
the advice of an ATI rep I ran into at a trade show. So far, I still have
no luck getting component output via the DVI adapter but the picture quality
is better and so far no black screen problem like i was having before
(fingers crossed on that one). The rep i talked to said that the 9550 with
double the ram at 256mb is a much better card than the 9600 and really
should have a higher numbering in the ATI line. after my experience, I
would agree. For $120 through newegg.com, its a better choice.

Isn't the 9550 just a 9600 artificially set to 2/3rds the clock speed?
Enforced by the ATI drivers, no less. It was to target a cheaper
section of the market, without needing to make new silicon. I assume
from your experience they fixed some TVout bugs as well.

Powerstrip will probably bring it back to spec.

Cheers - Jaimie

 

[kony]

Isn't the 9550 just a 9600 artificially set to 2/3rds the clock speed?
Enforced by the ATI drivers, no less. It was to target a cheaper
section of the market, without needing to make new silicon. I assume
from your experience they fixed some TVout bugs as well.

Powerstrip will probably bring it back to spec.

Isn't it a lower version of the R9700 instead? It's better
than a 9600.

 

[Craig]

The rep rattled off a bunch of specs that I didn't catch saying why it was
better, but other than the lower clock speed being a negative, the 9600 is a
64-bit and the 9550 is a 128 bit, those are the only spec differences that i
can find online other than 128mb in the 9600 vs the 256mb on the 9550.
Either way, i believe the picture is better with the 9550.

 

[kony]

The rep rattled off a bunch of specs that I didn't catch saying why it was
better, but other than the lower clock speed being a negative, the 9600 is a
64-bit and the 9550 is a 128 bit, those are the only spec differences that i
can find online other than 128mb in the 9600 vs the 256mb on the 9550.
Either way, i believe the picture is better with the 9550.

Yes, but lower clock speed isn't necessarily a bad thing.
It means you get a more advanced core but not the associated
heat or power burdens, or if you don't mind those, often
there's quite a bit of o'c headroom. Another example would
be a Geforce 6600GT and 6800 (NU, non-ultra), similar
performance but I'd much rather have the 6800 and o'c it...
if i needed another card, still getting some mileage out of
my current card.