Proposal to Keep WinXP Support "Alive"

H

homeowner

Hi,
I am a fan of WinXP (and Win98se). Most of you probably
know by now that Microsoft is suppose to end WinXP support
next year (I think April).

We all know that Microsoft's major income source is a new
OS. I would like to propose that we "petition" Microsoft to
continue WinXP support after the "ending date", but they can
begin charging a fee.

What do you think?

Thank You in advance, John

I sure hope they do, because there is no way in hell that I want any of
their newer OSs. None of my computers would run them, and I'm not going
to buy another computer when I have several of them that work just fine.
Sure MS makes money off their new OSs, but they might make money off
their older ones too, if they continued support. If their newer OSs
didn't require a new computer, some of us might buy them, but personally
I see no need to upgrade. All these newer OSs are is bloated crap, and
worse yet many of the older apps wont even work on them. I thought that
an OS was supposed to be pretty invisible, and simply OPERATE the
software that is installed. Apparently MS thinks their OS's are
supposed to be the whole computer. No thanks......
I like both XP and even my older system with Win98. I dont need or want
any newer OSs.
 
Q

QuestionQuigley

Microsoft's big opportunities to sell new versions of
Windows used to accompany hardware 6x faster
than the previous hardware.

This entails huge costs, much greater than the
mere cost of computers and Windows.

Adapting or replacing old, expensive or proprietary
software is a huge expense, as is any retraining
caused by such changes.

But these huge expenses were seen as
worthwhile because of the 6x speed increase.
Those days are over.

The applications that pay the bills for large
corporate users are things like order entry,
order recall, inventory, database, telephone
services scripts (Oracle) and word processing.

One outfit has about 150 computer workstations
in one room alone, plus about 30 more among
offices and operation center. But they have
about 25 such locations. Upgrading from XP
would offer them no advantage whatsoever.

Even though an operating system is crucial
for a computer, it is nonetheless a minor fraction
of the overall cost. If Microsoft is going to force
that MASS of old computers to be replaced with
no real advantage and for no real reason aside
from the marketing needs of Microsoft, it becomes
a bit like the tail wagging the dog.

What does Microsoft get per new OEM computer
with Win8? Maybe $30? Yet they expect to
force old systems to be scrapped and new computers
which provide no actual advantage to be purchased
at about $700 per system?? Just to fulfill Microsoft's
MARKETING NEEDS??

To force corporate customer service centers to
landfill/scrap all of those WinXP-Pro computers
by cutting off revised SECURITY UPDATES
is blatantly a MARKETING PLOY by Microsoft.

And not a very nice one.

Cutesy tiles instead of icons? Big deal.

How about that Android, eh?

It seems each version of Windows and MS Office has a new look and feel
that causes many users to get lost. It is one thing to improve
functionality, speed, and reliability, but it seems pointless to create
new layouts and menus that result in users getting lost. MS seems to
ignore the human interface. I'm sure the time wasted by users hunting
through each new menu causes billions of dollars of lost productivity
each year.
 
K

knuttle

On 12/22/2012 5:44 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

The counter to that is that the majority (though not all) of us like
what we know. If a new way of doing things is actually better, though
unfamiliar, but they provided the option of keeping the old way, then
the vast majority of _upgrading_ users would immediately switch to the
old way. This would have the result that (a) the users would not benefit
from the new way, (b) MS [and others] would in effect have to duplicate
support effort, in that they'd have to keep supporting both.
So I _can_ see _some_ justification for new ways of doing things, and
forcing them on users. (Compare the seat-belt and crash-helmet laws; I'm
not sure if those are the same in US as UK though. [Here belts must be
fitted, work, and be worn if the car was made later than 19xx, and
helmets must be worn [by riders of motorised two-wheelers!] except by
Sikhs.])


I am not against new things in the operating system. In fact I was using
OS/2 when most people were extolling the virtue of the first version of
Windows. Why because it was far superior to Windows.

I gladly upgraded to XP as it was based on part of the code that made
OS/2 far superior and stable.

However, why should I get excited about upgrading to a system that
assumes I am using a touch screen on my computer? In my work on the
computer the mouse works best, as it allows me access to all of the
areas on the screen with minimal physical movement. With the mouse I
can quickly move to any place on the screen and keep my hand in the area
where I am doing non computer things. i.e marking my place on the
physical page I am working with, turning the electrical switch over to
better see the information written on it, turning the chip to a better
angle to read what is written on it.

When comparing physical movement required by the mouse resting under my
hand to the movement needed to move my arm and hand all over the screen
to get the same results, the mouse will all ways win. So what if the
operating system is a tad faster, it does not increase the speed that I
can move my arm and hand. The touch screen causes a net increase in the
time to do any operation with the operating system because of the
increase physical movement of the body to get the job done.

This difference between the mouse and touch screen increases
significantly as the screen size increases and there is more territory
to move the hand to get the results you are looking for.

Using the same computer without a touch screen, still increase the
physical interaction time with the computer, because simulating a touch
screen using a mouse requires significantly more movement across the
screen. Again a net increase in the physical time to interact with the
operating system to get the same results.

Ergonomically the mouse wins hands down. How many muscle problems in
the arm and shoulder will be caused by keeping your arm and hand
extended in front of you for 8 hours a day?

With Windows 8, Microsoft has create a whole new medical syndrome.
 
C

Char Jackson

I am not against new things in the operating system. In fact I was using
OS/2 when most people were extolling the virtue of the first version of
Windows. Why because it was far superior to Windows.

I gladly upgraded to XP as it was based on part of the code that made
OS/2 far superior and stable.

However, why should I get excited about upgrading to a system that
assumes I am using a touch screen on my computer?

That explains a lot about your attitude. You seem to have completely
ignored the multiple mentions of being able to avoid the modern UI and
using a standard desktop.
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

It seems each version of Windows and MS Office has a new look and feel


I don't agree at all. Sometimes the changes *are* major, but other
times they are much more minor. It's certainly not "each version" that
has " a new look and feel."

For example, there is very little change in the interface between
Windows XP and Vista, or between Microsoft Office 2000 and 2003. And
even Windows 8, which many people think has a giant interface change
from Windows 7 is very different only if you want it to be. It's not
*just* the modern/metro interface; the old desktop interface is still
there and easy to switch to if you want to use it. I use Windows 8,
and use the old desktop interface almost exclusively; if you looked at
and used my computer. you'd have a hard time realizing that it was
Windows 8, not Windows 7.


that causes many users to get lost. It is one thing to improve
functionality, speed, and reliability, but it seems pointless to create
new layouts and menus that result in users getting lost.


But I agree with you here. Sometimes Microsoft makes changes that are
not better or worse than what used to be, and seem to be done just to
make it different. But that's not very different from what
manufacturers of other products--for example automobiles--do.

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP
 
K

knuttle

That explains a lot about your attitude. You seem to have completely
ignored the multiple mentions of being able to avoid the modern UI and
using a standard desktop.

Blinded by your opinion, you missed the hole point of what I wrote
 
G

Greegor

How much does a multi touch screen for a desktop system cost?

If I'm going to buy W8 to run on one of my machines,
will any of the free third party DVD players run
on the basic version of W8?

What's added to the "Professional" version of W8?

Is there an Ultimate version of W8?

Is that compatability stuff to run old software
built into all versions of W8, or only certain versions?

I can't even buy a "clean boot" RETAIL version of W8
where the license is transferrable?

Microsoft actually has service centers where for $99
they will remove crapware and make you
a clean boot of W8?

When does Microsoft plan to pull the plug
on W7 and stop the SECURITY UPDATES
just to force those users to buy Windows 9?

Has it occurred to anybody that this model
where each Microsoft OS has really bad
SECURITY FLAWS actually benefits Microsoft?

What would happen to user DEPENDENCY
on Microsoft if they made a version of Windows
WITHOUT huge security flaws, without the
need for 200+ SECURITY UPDATES?

Aren't we all just like JUNKIES hooked and
dependent on Microsoft for SECURITY UPDATES?
 
K

knuttle

In message <[email protected]>, knuttle
I am not against new things in the operating system. In fact I was
using
OS/2 when most people were extolling the virtue of the first version of
Windows. Why because it was far superior to Windows.

In your opinion. (Which Windows are you talking about - 3.1 [or even
earlier], or the '9x series [95/98/Me]?)
I gladly upgraded to XP as it was based on part of the code that made
OS/2 far superior and stable.

So you accepted the new when it meant it wasn't new to you (-:.

I have worked with FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC, DOS, WINDOWS and OS/2
My first programmable device was a TI-59 calculator. My first computer
was a TI-99/4a, my next was an Apple II? (1983). The first PC operating
system I used was DOS. I then got the first Window OS when it replaced
DOS 6. After using it for a period I bought OS/2 and installed it.

I definitely am not afraid of new things.

While you are criticizing me for what I said, you never answered the
ergonomic problems I have with Windows 8
 
A

Auric__

knuttle said:
In message <[email protected]>, knuttle
I am not against new things in the operating system. In fact I was
using
OS/2 when most people were extolling the virtue of the first version of
Windows. Why because it was far superior to Windows.

In your opinion. (Which Windows are you talking about - 3.1 [or even
earlier], or the '9x series [95/98/Me]?)

"First version" isn't something I'd normally consider up for debate... but
then, "the first version of Windows" (i.e. Windows 1.0) predates OS/2 by a
couple of years. (If you were truly using OS/2 when Windows 1.0 came out, I'd
like to borrow your time machine.) As for "extolling the virtue" of Win1, let
me qoute Wikipedia (The Web's Largest Source of Disinformation[tm]):

"[...] when finally released, Windows 1.0 aroused little interest."

(*I* didn't even hear of Windows until around 1989-ish.)

Also, the first version of OS/2 was essentially "DOS plus"; no GUI provided
until OS/2 1.1, a year and a half after OS/2 1.0, and nearly half a year
after the release of Windows 2.1. Until then, any comparison between OS/2 &
Windows would've been apples and oranges.

I'm a bit curious about this. If you upgraded to XP (from what, may I ask?)
for that reason, did you switch to NT3.1 when it first came out? It was the
first Windows system based on the OS/2 codebase.
I have worked with FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC, DOS, WINDOWS and OS/2

Oh god. COBOL. I'm so sorry.
My first programmable device was a TI-59 calculator. My first computer
was a TI-99/4a, my next was an Apple II? (1983). The first PC operating
system I used was DOS. I then got the first Window OS when it replaced
DOS 6. After using it for a period I bought OS/2 and installed it.

The first actual Windows OS was NT3. Win16 and the 9x line were just shells
on top of DOS. Just sayin'.
 
K

knuttle

The first actual Windows OS was NT3. Win16 and the 9x line were just shells
on top of DOS. Just sayin'.
Still no response to the ergonomic problems of Window 8
 
J

JJ

Greegor said:
Windows 8 can't even play a DVD unless you buy
a more expensive Media Center edition?? WTF?

That's proof that newer version isn't always better.
ROFL Look at the comments from UPGRADE purchasers!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416562

Microsoft Windows 8 Professional Upgrade $ 69.99

What'd you get from easter egg? Windows 8!
At least Microsoft fired the culprit

In this case, they fired the wrong person.
 
J

JJ

Greegor said:
Windows 8 can't even play a DVD unless you buy
a more expensive Media Center edition?? WTF?

That's proof that newer version isn't always better.
ROFL Look at the comments from UPGRADE purchasers!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416562

Microsoft Windows 8 Professional Upgrade $ 69.99

What'd you get from easter egg? Windows 8!
At least Microsoft fired the culprit

In this case, they fired the wrong person.
 
G

Greegor

I walked into one of the big box stores with a dozen
different laptops on display and every blasted one
was being sold with Windows 8.

It looks like Microsoft has already started leaning on
every OEM to STOP bundling Win 7 with their hardware
and bundle Win8 with their systems instead, even
on the slow cheap notebook computers and systems
without multi-touch screens to do the pinch minimize etc.

The MS Life Cycle page says availability is "To be determined" for
Win7.
 
C

Char Jackson

In message <[email protected]>, knuttle
I am not against new things in the operating system. In fact I was
using
OS/2 when most people were extolling the virtue of the first version of
Windows. Why because it was far superior to Windows.

In your opinion. (Which Windows are you talking about - 3.1 [or even
earlier], or the '9x series [95/98/Me]?)
I gladly upgraded to XP as it was based on part of the code that made
OS/2 far superior and stable.

So you accepted the new when it meant it wasn't new to you (-:.

I have worked with FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC, DOS, WINDOWS and OS/2
My first programmable device was a TI-59 calculator. My first computer
was a TI-99/4a, my next was an Apple II? (1983). The first PC operating
system I used was DOS. I then got the first Window OS when it replaced
DOS 6. After using it for a period I bought OS/2 and installed it.

I definitely am not afraid of new things.

While you are criticizing me for what I said, you never answered the
ergonomic problems I have with Windows 8

I answered your question, but you didn't like it.
 
C

Char Jackson

Blinded by your opinion, you missed the hole point of what I wrote

I was specifically responding to your final paragraph and only left
the rest in for context. If your "hole point" (sic) wasn't captured by
that paragraph, then I indeed missed it.

In case I need to spell it out, Win 8 *doesn't* assume that you're
using a touch screen, at least not in the way that I think you mean
it.
 
E

Evgenii Sputnik

Le 18/12/2012 21:05, Greegor a écrit :
Windows 8 can't even play a DVD unless you buy
a more expensive Media Center edition?? WTF?

Try VLC Media Player. It's free and GPL.
 
C

Char Jackson

Will other media players like Real Player and the Apple media player
work on Windows 8. They both are free.

I'd be surprised to learn that anyone still uses either of those. I
thought usage had dropped to nearly zero about 10-12 years ago.
 

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